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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Could this be the REAL reason for and the answer to the economic crisis!!!??? (secular documentary)

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 anon

I watched all of Mr. Williams video with an open mind. I also watched this video knowing what I know about the petroleum trade.

You and I dont know each other, we don't know what the other knows. What experiences we've had, the jobs we've worked, etc etc.

Understand this, I am not assuming anything about your character, or your intellectual acumen, or your curiousity, nothing like that, at all.

Right now, I just want to address Mr. Williams video. and I'm going to talk about the art of interrogation first. (I beg forgiveness for anyone reading this, that I'm speaking of something that is OF the world) Much has been bandied forth about coercive interrogation techniques, ie.."waterboarding" and other various forms of "torture".

we know that, we've read of it, etc.

The best interrogators never use violent methods. The first thing a really good interrogator does is to know his subject, and his subjects worldview, and in the case of radical jihadis, know their theological views, and their theology, ie...multiple readings of the Koran, knowing the history of the region, being fluent in Pashtun, or whatever Arabic langauge the subject speaks.

Then when your in the room, you just start a conversation, very low key. Once a sort of repoire has been established, you then turn into a listener, and a man who has been held in isolation, his tendency is to crave this interaction, no matter how he views you. When he knows that YOU know, HIS world, he begins to look forward to these "conversations".

That when he starts to "spill".

The only reason I brought that up, is because I know of the "world" that Mr Williams is speaking of....and in the one hour and 15 minutes he spoke, he gave two clues, two hints, that he really doesnt have a handle on what he speaks of.

The first was a statement he made, and I'm paraphrasing, he said the United States "made the decision in the 1960's it was going to control the world through oil".

Just that one statement alone, tipped me off that he didnt have a handle on what he was talking about, and let me explain.

From Sep 1, 1939 until Dec 7, 1941, FDR knew that the US would have to face a war in Europe against Hitler, and possibly the Soviets. (who signed a pact with Hitler, dividing up Poland)
But FDR faced an enormous hurdle, an American public that had no wish to sacrifice blood and treasure in yet another nasty euro war.

The US began to tool up though, a military build-up, "lend lease to the UK".

Hitler, the idiot corporal he was, of course turned on the Soviet Union, and invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941. Mind you, at that time, all that stood against Hitler was a weakened England, and now a Soviet Union crumbling in face of a massive nazi invasion.

FDR had to act and quickly, the reason being is that if Hitler was smart, he would drive towards the Causcaus oil fields of Russia, and then further south he was making his way towards the Persian Gulf, after all, this new style of warfare, "blitzkrieg" required vast amounts of petroleum, as you know, blitzkrieg involved owning the air, attacking enemy armored and infantry forces by the air, concentrated armor assaults, followed by infantry, it was a new style of warfare.

On 23 June 1941 - one day after Hitler's attack on Russia - Secretary of the Interior and FDR's advisor Harold Ickes wrote a memo for the President in which he pointed out "that there might develop from the embargoing of oil to Japan such a situation as would make it not only possible but easy to get into this war in an effective way. And if we should thus indirectly be brought in, we would avoid the criticism that we had gone in as an ally of communistic Russia".

Japan, who was allied, quite foolishly with the nazi's, had no national oil supply of their own. (I say "foolishly allied" with the nazi's, because if you look at the geography, what could Germany "do" for the Japanese in a tactical sense?..nothing)

Japan, in its imperial aspirations made a mistake, they invaded Southeast Asia, which gave FDR his opening which was to freeze all Japanese assets in the US, and embargo their oil supply from what was then the Dutch East Indies on July 25th, 1941. at his point allow me to quote what happend next: (for my fingers sake..lol)

From that moment on Japan faced an existential threat from the United States, a threat that could not be averted by peaceful means short of abdicating its status as a great power and visibly losing face - an utter impossibility.



On 24 September 1941 Washington deciphered a message from the Naval Intelligence Headquarters in Tokyo to Japan's consul-general in Honolulu, requesting grid of exact locations of U.S. Navy ships in the harbor. Commanders in Hawaii were not warned. U.S. naval intelligence had cracked the Japanese naval codes one year earlier, enabling FDR to receive translations of all key messages.



On 18 October Harold Ickes noted in his diary: "For a long time I have believed that our best entrance into the war would be by way of Japan." Yet Japan had to be made to fire first: on October 22 opinion polls revealed that 74 percent of Americans opposed war with Japan, and only 13 percent supported it.



On November 25, 1941, Secretary of War Stimson wrote in his diary that FDR said an attack was likely within days, and wondered "how we should maneuver them into the position of firing the first shot without too much danger to ourselves":



In spite of the risk involved, however, in letting the Japanese fire the first shot, we realized that in order to have the full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in anyone's mind as to who were the aggressors.



On November 26 Secretary of State Hull issued a provocatively worded note - an ultimatum, really - demanding the complete withdrawal of all Japanese troops not only from French Indochina but also from China. According to the Army Investigating Board's Pearl Harbor report (1945), U.S. Ambassador to Japan Grew called this "The document that touched the button that started the war." The Japanese reacted on cue: On December 1, final authorization was given by the emperor, after a majority of Japanese leaders advised him the Hull Note would "destroy the fruits of the China incident, endanger Manchukuo and undermine Japanese control of Korea."



Also on November 26 Washington ordered both US aircraft carriers, the Enterprise and the Lexington, out of Pearl Harbor "as soon as possible." This order entailed stripping Pearl Harbor of 50 planes, or 40 percent of its already inadequate fighter protection. On the same day Cordell Hull issued his ultimatum demanding full Japanese withdrawal from Indochina and all China.



On December 1, Office of Naval Intelligence, ONI, 12th Naval District in San Francisco found the Japanese fleet by correlating reports from the four wireless news services and several shipping companies that they were getting signals west of Hawaii. As we now know, the ships of the Japanese carrier fleet engaged in daily radio communication with the high command in Japan, military commands in the Central Pacific, and with each other - as Robert Stinnett conclusively establishedby reading U.S. naval intelligence radio intercepts of the Japanese transmissions. U.S. Navy did not "lose" the carriers.



On 5 December FDR wrote to the Australian Prime Minister that "the next four or five days will decide the matters" with Japan. Later that same day, at a Cabinet meeting, Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox said, "Well, you know Mr. President, we know where the Japanese fleet is?" "Yes, I know . Well, you tell them what it is Frank," replied Roosevelt. Just as Knox was about to speak Roosevelt appeared to have second thoughts and interrupted him, saying: "We haven't got anything like perfect information as to their apparent destination."

end of quotes, you know what happened next, and even the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor might have been a tactical victory, it was a strategic defeat. The Japanese never got our carriers, and stupidly their pilots FAILED to destroy the true prize at Pearl Harbor, which was the petroleum tank farm containing over 2 million gallons of various fuels, aviation gas, ship fuel, etc. They were idiots, children playing at war, if they had thought it out, the tank farm was target one, followed by a multi-divisional land invasion of the Hawaiian Islands. Think about that. No more Pacific Fleet base at Pearl, it would have tied up numerous divisons stationed on the West Coast in America, to counter what would be the percieved next move of the Japanese, invasion of the US, which they never could have pulled off, but still, we would have had to mount our attack from West Coast Naval ports, and that would have been a huge hill to climb. The President took a gamble, and it paid off, but my point is this, long before the "1960's", we realized on a strategic basis that oil is the THING, not the 1960's, and its not about "controlling people", its about what is called the "vital interests" of the United States.

So just that one sentence from Mr Williams alone, tipped me off, that he wasnt looking DEEPER, that he's an intellectual lightweight looking to sell books, looking for lecture fees. I'm not denigrating the kernel of truth to all this....no, I'm denigrating the messenger, because like the men he professes to expose, HE has an agenda, its not to "help" you or I...think about it. If there is this POWERFUL evil cabal, this gang of elites, whom have put him in "fear of his life", what is he instilling INTO YOU with this "information"?

Fear.

Because what are YOU going to do with this info? You want to revolt? He's already told you how all powerful and wired in these "elites" are, in the name of "truth", so are you ready to die?

Why do you think the Apostle Paul wrote, as swept along by God, in Romans 13, to be in submission to authorities?

what was happening in Israel at that time? Much dissent and foment, the land was held by the empire of Rome, yet there were bands of zealots ready and willing to take on Rome in armed rebellion, and in 66 AD(or 64 I'm going off the top my haid), they started a war against Rome that ended rather badly, Jerusalem razed to the ground, and the last band of zealots taking a last stand at Masada, where over 900 zealots killed themselves the night after the Romans breached the wall.

But what about the followers of Jesus? they werent part of that. Their "revolution" was different, and it turned the world upside down.

I'm not saying to be a fool, or to be unawares, or to be blindly ignorant, or to be unprepared for "times such as this", I'm saying, be cool. Be very wary about who you listen to, and what you take as "truth", or who you "follow", what directions they pull you into, if they pull you into fear, they ARE NOT of God.

Of course, it is wise to prepare, it is wise to perhaps buy silver, in the recognizing that our currency is becoming debased, it is wise to follow Jesus' advice to "sell your cloak, and buy a sword", but it is also wisdom to recognize that wolves will fall into the ranks of the elect, spilling out perverse thoughts, and leading followers astray.

There was one last thing that I wanted to underline, that Mr Williams said that kind of made me think he wasnt "all that". He spoke of a operative who told him that we baited Saddam Hussein into invading Kuwait, and I was WAITING for him to bring out the ONE NAME of a person who you can see met with the Iraqi President 4 days before the Iraqi invasion, and that name is April Glaspie, ambassdor to Iraq at the time. Google that name along with Saddam, you'll see. Mr Williams never mentioned that encounter, which was a very very important meeting in the light of history.

Let me finish by saying this, as followers of Jesus, I believe that instead of fixating on "Rome", or worrying about defending the "temple in Jerusalem", our hearts and our souls should be at the "Church in Antioch". Of course I'm speaking in metaphors, the Ekklesia in Antioch was so apostolistically annointed, it takes my breath away in wonder at the Love and the Mercy of God,and the TRUE power of the Holy Spirit, and our Messiah Jesus..

anyway, God bless you, have a good day, in His love, neil (sorry for the long post)



 2009/1/20 14:49
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re:

Natan,

Quote:
I watched all of Mr. Williams video with an open mind. I also watched this video knowing what I know about the petroleum trade. You and I dont know each other, we don't know what the other knows. What experiences we've had, the jobs we've worked, etc etc. Understand this, I am not assuming anything about your character, or your intellectual acumen, or your curiousity, nothing like that, at all.


Thanks for taking the time to watch it. I want to say first of all that I appreciate you effort in response.

Truly, I do not know much as I have wasted a lot of my youth educationally before I became a Christian.

I have been for some while looking into these things. I have seen some notable things and some things that ought to be examined at the very least.

I will respond to your post in part to the best that I can at this point. I hope in time to study these subject more thoroughly and so in time hope to bring a more clear and knowledgeable statement on the matter. So, this is only partial


Quote:
The only reason I brought that up, is because I know of the "world" that Mr Williams is speaking of....and in the one hour and 15 minutes he spoke, he gave two clues, two hints, that he really doesnt have a handle on what he speaks of. The first was a statement he made, and I'm paraphrasing, he said the United States "made the decision in the 1960's it was going to control the world through oil". Just that one statement alone, tipped me off that he didnt have a handle on what he was talking about, and let me explain...

...my point is this, long before the "1960's", we realized on a strategic basis that oil is the THING, not the 1960's, and its not about "controlling people", its about what is called the "vital interests" of the United States.

So just that one sentence from Mr Williams alone, tipped me off, that he wasnt looking DEEPER, that he's an intellectual lightweight...


I don't remember exactly what he said. I think he may have been speaking more so of the Elite. I think most people think the government is compartmentalized on this subject. I will have to get back to you on this point as I will have to see that context in which he said it and it may be hard to find the time in the video in which he said. That being said I think that even if he were wrong on this point that it would not totally discredit him. I mean many of us are prone to some error or extremes. For often when someone is so moved by some solid fact they often are emotionally swayed to go to extremes like even in Christianity so this could have been the case. So I will try to get back to you. He did however earlier state how after he had written the book that one of the oil men warned him that the oil company was going to try and totally discredit his message just on a couple technical points that he had made wrong so that oil man he said helped him to write it. So he also may not be an expert though he has been upon the subject rigorously for 30 years, but I don't think he claims to be so in a scholarly way but more from an experiential testimonial way in what he has seen and heard.


Quote:
looking to sell books, looking for lecture fees. I'm not denigrating the kernel of truth to all this....no, I'm denigrating the messenger, because like the men he professes to expose, HE has an agenda, its not to "help" you or I...think about it.


It might be hard to say this since first he seems to be a sincere Christian who went to bible college, pastored a Church in Florida, missioned to Alaska as a Chaplain, and also has said that he no longer sells his book due to the threat and has said that he feels called back to the mission field, and I do not believe that he feared in the sense of ungodliness but in wisdom and so has not stopped speaking but just more undercover and with discretion, he also took down his website and videos.


Quote:
because like the men he professes to expose, HE has an agenda, its not to "help" you or I...think about it. If there is this POWERFUL evil cabal, this gang of elites, whom have put him in "fear of his life", what is he instilling INTO YOU with this "information"? Fear.


In another one of his videos which I just posted (The Next 12 Months) that was made more recently then last he said in the end, "it does not say and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you fear but that the truth shall set you free". He also said that we need to get right spiritually and then we would not have fear and that his motive was to help us to understand. He said if we were in Hitlers time would we not want to know, or if we were in the twin towers on 911 would we want to know and so on.

I think that one can fear after hearing these things but if they do that is their fault since they are not prepared with the peace of God and a hard message is too much for them.


Quote:
Because what are YOU going to do with this info? You want to revolt? He's already told you how all powerful and wired in these "elites" are, in the name of "truth", so are you ready to die? Why do you think the Apostle Paul wrote, as swept along by God, in Romans 13, to be in submission to authorities? what was happening in Israel at that time? Much dissent and foment, the land was held by the empire of Rome, yet there were bands of zealots ready and willing to take on Rome in armed rebellion, and in 66 AD(or 64 I'm going off the top my haid), they started a war against Rome that ended rather badly, Jerusalem razed to the ground, and the last band of zealots taking a last stand at Masada, where over 900 zealots killed themselves the night after the Romans breached the wall. But what about the followers of Jesus? they werent part of that. Their "revolution" was different, and it turned the world upside down.


I understand that the main things we ought to be occupied with is the specific things you mention but I also believe that it would be extreme to not have any dealing in the world.

I say again that if we were in the days of hitler or in the tower before 911 that we would want to know and want to do something even if we were Christian.

I know we are to submit to authorities but when they go against truth and against that which is right we aren't to submit to them in that.

You ask me would I want to revolt. Well I am still working out exactly what I would want to do and would have to pray about that. I know that there is a monetary reform act. I am not so persuaded toward total passivism however. I know what the main thing is but it is not the only dealing with government and so forth are also part of it. I think it can be paralleled to good works in helping people who may be in great harms way.


Quote:
There was one last thing that I wanted to underline, that Mr Williams said that kind of made me think he wasnt "all that". He spoke of a operative who told him that we baited Saddam Hussein into invading Kuwait, and I was WAITING for him to bring out the ONE NAME of a person who you can see met with the Iraqi President 4 days before the Iraqi invasion, and that name is April Glaspie, ambassdor to Iraq at the time. Google that name along with Saddam, you'll see. Mr Williams never mentioned that encounter, which was a very very important meeting in the light of history.


I don't really know what you mean by this.


In response I want to again say that I am not complete in this and so will respond in part. I think that it is possible that you are too quick to reject this. One reason I would say this is that it seems you have rejected it on some smaller arguments and presumption upon his character. I am still going to look into this further for there are still many things at hand.

I mean what about all the other things that he said. The 200 years worth of oil in Alaska that is unused or in Montana, his prediction that was fulfilled that oil would drastically drop recently, his testimony as a Christian missionary, his contrast to conspirators since he is not basing his teaching on other or even history mainly but on his first hand account, the prediction of the current financial crisis, and so on.

I also recently watched a video that was shorter then the first documentary and modernized and yet more complete then the second that quoted verbatim all that you said about WW2: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__YFnUfYXZk]The Men Behind the Curtain[/url]

Or what of all the others who have testified against the financial system like President's themselves were they ignorant or conspirators or with false motive?

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

... The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating. -[b]Thomas Jefferson[/b]


History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -[b]James Madison[/b]


If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. -[b]Andrew Jackson[/b]


The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -[b]Abraham Lincoln[/b]


Issue of currency should be lodged with the government and be protected from domination by Wall Street. We are opposed to...provisions [which] would place our currency and credit system in private hands. -[b]Theodore Roosevelt[/b]


Despite these warnings, Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote:

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. -[b]Woodrow Wilson[/b]


Years later, reflecting on the major banks' control in Washington, President Franklin Roosevelt paid this indirect praise to his distant predecessor President Andrew Jackson, who had "killed" the 2nd Bank of the US (an earlier type of the Federal Reserve System). After Jackson's administration the bankers' influence was gradually restored and increased, culminating in the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Roosevelt knew this history.

The real truth of the matter is,as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since
the days of Andrew Jackson... -[b]Franklin D. Roosevelt[/b] (in a letter to Colonel House, dated November 21, 1933)

 2009/1/21 11:20Profile









 response to "anon" 21 Jan 2009

Thank you dear brother for the response, and please know, even through this somewhat lacking medium, that in NO WAY do I wish to speak with you in any other spirit, than in Jesus' love, and true Christian fellowship. Please know that.

a fine response indeed. Know also that I have nothing aginst Mister Williams, Chaplain Williams, God bless the man, he's just doing what he HEARS his CALLING is.

That's the salient issue in all our lives trapped in these jars of clay...whats my call?, whats my calling?

and I can only speak for myself, my calling right this second is to remain where I am, and continue what God has graciously bestowed upon me, and to be obedient to His Word, and to discern His Voice, when He DOES speak to me. Thats hard. Living in this body of death is hard. My calling is that I'm a working artist, in a city. I make money at it, and God has so graciously canted my heart beat that "things" and "possessions" and "wealth" mean very little to me. Mind you, I dont have a LOT, Praise God, but what I have, Jesus gave me, and I try and use it for His Glory, and His call on my life.

You see, I had a strange young adulthood, in the sense that by the time I was 30, my two main jobs were in intelligence and armed services, and then in the financial sector, the financial sector I was at ground zero, meaning the trading pits. I no longer have any direct link to either, but I can tell you right now, for instance what is happening say in the Frontier Agencies of Pakistan, or the succession issues that face North Korean leadership, I can tell you where the US dollar is trading, the spread between hard red winter wheat and hard red spring wheat, I can tell you where silver and gold are trading at both on the "board" and in the real world. I can tell you where 30 day Fed Funds are, etc etc. I didnt write that to boast, but to underline that all that knowledge is really NOTHING, its just the dross and hay and stubble of a dying world. But I have the knowledge, even though I make my living in the arts, and the arts themselves are a particuraly challenging environment in that most of the people I know and work with consider the Provisions of Messiah an irrelevancy, they consider the Bible as just something that gathers dust on a bookshelf, if its on the bookshelf at all, may God have mercy on them.

You know... anon, you write of the "Elites", which is fine, and you capitalize this word, and thats fine too, but the way I see it is this: there are two types of people in this world, no matter their financial standing, there are the Sons of the Light, and the Sons of the Darkness, one serves Jesus, the other serves the devil, its that simple, as the Lord has led me.

The Sons of the Light, (Daughters too..lol) are real, authentic, transparent and filled with the kind of love, only the Holy Spirit can lay up in a yielded heart. From that Love flows a well spring of righteousness (not self righteousness), a well spring of hope and faith and charity. The Hebrew word, t'zaddiq is a righteous man, out of this word is also "t'zedakah", which can be translated as "righteouness", AND charity.

I said that to say this, I've read the Book of Revelations quite a few times, and I dont really need to posit myself into the various theological terms that strive to interpet this wonderful Book, this Revelatory apocalyptic Writing, such as "pre-millianism", or "post-trib", etc, but I know we are in the end times, the signs are clear, you can almost smell the gathering "vultures in the air", you can see the immature buds on the tree, and it is my firm conviction that every Son of the Light, every follower of Jesus keep good ear as to the Call.

Some He will say, "remain in the city", some He will scatter into the countryside, others will go to be with Him, but I pray that when Jesus gives the Call, I can hear Him, and my feeling is that He wants me out of the city, and I wait patient, but He has also spoken to me about the wisdom of such times, and told me cast fear aside. Because when those days come, and if He hasnt taken you, you will be needed to minister to the remnant He so ardently desires, and that ministering might be to be in a position where one can dispense love AND charity.

I'll tell you a funny story, in Feb 2008, my sons mother told me that my precious 12 year old son had come to her in fierce sincerity and told her, "Mama, I want you to get all your money out of the bank NOW, and to put it into silver!" She responded to him, "You've been talking to your father!" We both laughed at this antedote, she knows me well, and she knows that him and I have wide ranging discussions, even though he is now 13, I have always talked to him as a peer, hence he's a bit precocious. I've told him, there will come a day that paper money will be no good, that gold and silver and tangible assets will be currency, and that one must strive to regain the older knowledge of making "things" AND making food, which means a rural life, which means buying land in such an area. I also have told him, those who live to buy STUFF, usually on credit, are headed in a bad way. I've told him the best thing to do is save, and just consume what you need, nothing more. I told him this, not to instill a spirit of fear, but that when the time comes, we may be called upon to have our act together enough to administer T'ZEDAKAH (charity) upon those who are hungry, or ill, or homeless, or in great distress, and THAT is the way we reflect the Love and Mercy of Jesus in a troubled turbulent time, and so by showing this love, we might save a few. Not save them in a physical sense only, but to demonstrate the Perfect Love of Messiah, so that they can come thru the narrow gate into the sheepfold.

That Feb, last year, after my sons mother told me this story about my son's urgings, I took that as a Word from God, ie, from the mouth of babes, and began slowly, steadily and deliberately began to convert paper money savings into silver coinage, every bit, I still maintain a bit of paper currency to take care of bills and thus, but I have obtained a good amount of real currency, as well as gifting my son with a good deal himself, so he can get used to the idea of how to do things in the future. There are other things I have taught him, to trust in the Lord (he asked Jesus into his heart at age 7, when the Holy Spirit spoke to HIM, my son, with no adult urging or pressure) I also taught him things he will need to know in the coming days, things I dont want to unpack on this forum.

All I await now, is my land, and Glory to God, He will give it in His timing. I have faith in Him, I believe Him. I also have dear lifelong friends in the rural area He has called me to, who would eagerily allow me to till acreage should it become neccessary, I have good skills at gardening....anyway, I'm starting to blither, so I'll cut this short, by saying that I believe that the main thing a follower of Jesus should be mindful of, is the call.

God bless you richly, neil

 2009/1/21 14:07
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re:

Natan,

I am delighted by your loving disposition throughout the time I have read of your various posts on various threads even though it is through the internet.

I am also interested and inspired in and by your different qualities that I have noticed as you have written.

For instance your knowledge of the Hebrew language to whatever degree, your elected ethnicity, comprehension of financial terminology, spiritual and prophetic apprehension of the seasons and ones personal relation to God, your experience in trading on ground zero and also the aforementioned intelligence and armed forces.

I don't really know how to format this response but I enjoyed your post thanks for sharing I share a kindred spirit in a lot of the things you have shared from your heart. Thank you and God bless you I sense that when these last times crescendo that we will need to cling to one another in unity and bodily dependance and am glad that the Lord is raising up teammates who are preparing and working unto the same things.

I don't know this may not be your heart and you may not want to focus on financial things emphatically per se. But, I just wanted to ask you if you could share any advice or thoughts that you have specifically in investing.

I am curious as to whether interest rates will drop so as to open up the door for financing?

I know there is real estate but if the US continues to decline then it may not be such a good idea if it stays that way?

As for the stocks market it is so shaky and risky and one would have to know how to invest in a down market? And oil seems to be too hard to get into since you would have to have an oil tanker or if you bought some stock it would be expensive and it seems to drastically fluctuate so much that it may not always be a good hedge as the metals?

Where can one study so as to have the understanding and skill to financially profit and invest with wisdom?

And, I think lastly, since you seem to be akin to the metals. What is the best metal to buy? Where is the best place to buy it? And whatever else I need to know as an ignorant novice or a resource to study? I was told platinum and such is being ignored and so may be good to buy in. I was told that gold is the most popular and out of all the metals it is of the least supply. I was told silver is cheaper to get and that it is being used for many things that are in demand like cell phones so it will be in demand. And, I am not sure about whether coins or bullion are better to buy. What I mean by bullion is that it is in a square molded type shape. And, I am not sure whether dates of coins matter all that much and so on and so am a bit lost in the matter and am seeking understanding...

p.s. I agree wholeheartedly that so much depends upon our personal calling and am just wrestling with the matter.

 2009/1/22 14:28Profile









 anon: worldy financial advice/opinion

anon: what I'm going write now has nothing to do with the Deep Things of God, and I hope the moderators will show me some grace, as this is not a forum that is geared to giving financial advice, which I am NOT, I'm only going to say what I believe is the most prudent course, and in no way, would I encourage anyone to take my advice WITHOUT prayer, and hearing from the Lord.

Rather than using the word "invest", I like the word. "prepare".

Quote:
I am curious as to whether interest rates will drop so as to open up the door for financing?



Interest rates are LOW right now, the problem is that the "pipes" of credit are frozen. The bailout money, the TARP program money given to the major banking centers is being hoarded by the banks, so as to shore up their balance sheets, which are in dire dire shape. Its not that the banks are being "malicious" per se, its just like any worldly organism, they are acting in their own best interests, instead of the commonweal. They're SCARED, because the hole they dug themselves was this, they violated sound banking principles, and many banks would do this, (in the past) for every dollar deposited, they would loan out 30...thats the whole problem, so the govt, in panic mode...the Fed I mean is trying to print their way out of this mess.

and it wont work, the dollar will crumble, and to shore it up, real interest rates could go back up to 18% (as in the early 80's), They'll do this to combat inflation, which will be quite evident..late 09, thru 2010 and beyond.

the traditional buy and hold stock mindset wont work, the stock market will bear resemblance to the market of early 1974 to 1982 (or 1932 to the 1950's) kind of a flatlined market, moribund.

I dont own these issues, but the stock's I watch are McDonalds, Krogers, Campbell Soup, Archer Daniels-Midland (ADM) General Mills, Costco and Microsoft. All sound companies, and you see the similarities? Food. If you asked me to pick ONE, it would be McDonalds, but at these levels? I dont know, as me and some of my old cohorts think that we will break 7500 on the Dow, and I think we might trade down to anywhere between 5,000 and 3,200 on the Dow Jones.

at the same time, the commodities markets will have a boom time, BUT, I would NOT reccommend to ANYBODY to trade in these markets, simply because A. they are so VOLATILE and B. to do so, would require ALL of your "bandwidth", mental, emotional AND spiritual, that you will have zero left for the Lord. Thats why I dont trade futures anymore.

Quote:
I know there is real estate but if the US continues to decline then it may not be such a good idea if it stays that way?



the way I see it, the best real estate is rural, a place where you can grow food, A cavaet, IF the Lord has you CALLED to a city, stay there. But if He says move, move, and I say that because one thinks of the country side as a kind of "Bible belt", and oh yes, there are many in the countryside who love the Lord, but I also tell you, that many folks in the rural areas (as everywhere) are lost. I have never seen so many dead dry Lutheran and United Methodist Churches, as when I drive up into north Midwest. (please, no offense to any of my Lutheran or UM brothers and sisters, it kind of reminds me of what the Hebrides Islands in Scotland must of been like before the 1950's revival..just my read on the situation)

but rural land is good, IF you have the skills to grow food, grain, vegetable, livestock...you know how to make firewood, know how to hunt, and to process game, store food, etc.

Quote:
Where can one study so as to have the understanding and skill to financially profit and invest with wisdom?



that takes a lifetime, and I dont really know if it's worth it, because if you asked me, which would I rather study and meditate on, the Bible and all the great writings and history of this Most Holy Faith, OR to study the intricacies of the many financial markets and trading vehicles, etc......I say, stay with the Bible, and I speak from my experience.

Much as this dear website speaks of the "old paths", my advice would be give certain study on the "old" technologies of life, HOW to make a chair, HOW to clean a chimney, How to safely can vegetables, etc........you see what I mean? These are all things many of us have forgotten, same way, we in Church have forgotten the importance of the prayer meeting, or even the act of kneeling in the barn all day in prayer, cause thats what the Lord told you to do.

here's something, this is Duncan Campbell speaking of the revival on the rural Scootish Hebrides Islands during the 1950's, I love this testimony as well as all of Duncan Campbell's sermons, if I could be a fifth of the man dear Duncan was in doing the Things of the Lord, I'll die happy:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1836]When God stepped Down-pt 1[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1837]When God stepped Down-pt 2[/url]

you'll love these!!! and any of his sermons HERE on SI, God bless you Greg Gordon!!


Quote:
What is the best metal to buy? Where is the best place to buy it?



I'm going to tell you what I do; I buy only FIVE types of silver coins, I buy uncirculated pre-1965, dimes, quarters, and both Franklin and Kennedy half-dollars (1964 only in the Kennedys) AND I buy American Silver Eagles, and I buy only in rolls. The coinage from prior to 1965 is 90% silver, the American Silver Eagles are one ounce of .999 silver. Hence a $10 face value roll of Half Dollars(20 coins) will contain 7.2339 troy ounces of silver, the same with a roll(40 coins) of pre-1965 Washington quarters, which is $10 face value, a roll of dimes,(50 coins, $5 face value) pre-1965 will contain 3.617 troy ounces of silver.

here is the website you can calculate the silver value of American coinage:

[url=http://www.coinflation.com/]"Coinflation dot com"[/url]

I am NOT a nuismatic collector, meaning I dont waste a lot of time on "collecting" coins, all I'm interested in is savings, meaning I regard my purchases as different way to SAVE, much the same way one would open a passbook savings accounts. All the coins I buy must be in uncirculated condition, and I TRY and pay only a small premium above their "melt" value, these coins to me represent REAL currency, thats why I stick with silver, and why I mix it up with dimes, quarters and halves, so that in the future, need be, I can either trade, or help. Thats why I stay away from gold, because an ounce of gold, say in an American Gold Eagle is worth, this second, about a thousand dollars, how would you divide that up if you had to make a smaller purchase?...and also consider that President Roosevelt banned private gold ownership during the depression in 1933, this of course was reversed, but history always repeats, or is at least a lesson learned. Besides, us everyday folk dont have 2 million to sink into one ounce gold coins.

I buy on Ebay, but buyer BEWARE. I have never been cheated, thank God, but thats because I really look hard at the seller, and ONLY deal with those sellers who have hundreds, if not thousands of successful transactions with at least a 99% favorable rating...plus I pray about it, for wisdom, not for greed, and if I get the slightest leading, "dont", I dont bid.

The trading on Ebay in coins has definitely gotten more intense, and you see a bit less of quality rolls and a lot more junk rolls, people will say "roll of washington silver quarters 1932-1964", and what that means is you will probably get a roll of smoothed over, dirty, coins, whereas a lot of the quality rolls, the bidding can get fierce.

Let me just give you two "for instance's" of a good trade. If you purchase a roll of brilliant uncirculated 1964 Kennedy halves for say $110 to 120..that's good, a roll of BU 1961 Franklin halves at $140 is not bad, there's another seller offering a "buy it now", (meaning no auction) roll of 2008 American Silver Eagles(20 coins, 20 ounces) for $360, free shipping, that is a good deal, true, it prices the silver at $18 an ounce, but the futures price of $11.35 is not real world, the futures market in New York has been manipulated, I dont know the reasoning behind this, but I know it is.

whew! long post, I wrote just to love on you in Jesus' Name, dont...dont take this as a reccomendation to do anything, I'm telling you how i handle the resources God has gifted me with, praise His Name!! and apologize to any brothers and sisters for writing so much about the filthy rags of the world, with the codicile that we are IN the world but NOT OF IT!!!

with my eyes on Jesus, neil

ps..I want to go listen to Duncan while I do household chores!!! lol

 2009/1/22 16:17









 Re: anon: worldy financial advice/opinion

anon...brother, of all the things I wrote in my previous posting, all of it matters very little weighed against the real wealth of the two links I gave you to listen to Duncan Campbell speaking of revival in the Hebrides./.......I'm listening to it as I type, and what dear Duncan testify's to, that is REAL WEALTH...REAL REVIVAL.....God pouring Water on dry ground, and souls coming to Christ!! It's glorious....if only TWO would gather in His Name!!!!

 2009/1/22 17:58
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re: anon: worldy financial advice/opinion

Natan,

Thanks for all the information. It has been very helpful in giving me a significant increase in clarity and comprehension on the matter.

I can assure you that I do not intend to take anything rashly now do I believe I am prone to be blown around with the wind. I also understand that you are only telling me what you do personally.

As for the whole money thing I do not think it is evil in and of itself. I believe it is the love of money in an incorrect way that is the cause of evil and not the money itself. I mean there is gold in the new Jerusalem.

I actually think that it is a good thing to be zealous for money if it is for the right purposes. I have spent years studying the scriptures full time and so it is not as though I am lacking or lop sided.

I think that often when people who get saved who had sinful lusts for money or certain compromises that they tend to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Or those who are very zealous for Apostolic sacrifice often think that money is bad because they see it as the opposite of sacrifice but that is only because they are looking at it wrong. For you can sacrifice yourself in service to gain funds and then use that gain to minister. I think lastly though there are probably other things is that when Christians see false prosperity teachers they in error go to the other extreme of error.

I don't know if you agree with that or not? I once looked at money as a small thing. I once thought of it as sinful or at least those Christians who sought the ministry in the marketplace to be the weaker who were not able to preach and so forth. Now however I think it can be in God's will part of revival and an essential part. I say this for many reason we can sponsor missionaries, give to the poor, or as Paul says it is better that we are not slaves of men but free to serve God and if we had funds we wouldn't be so bound to the service of men.

I do have a couple questions about a couple things you said in answering my previous questions. Maybe I can pm you or something?

 2009/1/25 13:50Profile









 anon-resource for the Kingdom's sake

I agree wholeheartedly that resource should and must be used for Kingdom purpose's.

and as times grow harder, that resource can be used wisely to reflect the Love of Jesus, whether that resource be financial, that resource be loved spilled to others from a Spirit filled heart, or knowledge that could help others, ie, how do I can tomatoes?, how do I make a chair? as well as having the resource to gift a person with something so simple as a BIble, when they are soaked with worldly fear and have no place to run, other than into the Arms of the Father.....thats where my heart is at, thats what I yearn for......in Jesus' love

 2009/1/26 16:42





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