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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Asking oppinions of Gen 3:16

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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Asking oppinions of Gen 3:16

[b]Gen 3:16[/b] [color=990000]And to the woman He says, I will greatly [b]multiply[/b] your sorrow of your conception. In sorrow shall you bear sons. "Yet by your husband is your restoration, and he shall rule over you.[/color]

In order for God to [b]multiply[/b] sorrow of conception, there must be a set degree of sorrow to start with.

Is that set degree of sorrow, which will be multiplied, from previous conceptions?

 2009/1/8 11:20Profile
bluinos
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Joined: 2005/2/4
Posts: 78


 Re: Asking oppinions of Gen 3:16

Logic,

You are emphasizing on the word [color=CC3366]multiply[/color]

In your heart of hearts it's conception that you are questiong, but the Spirit of the Lord in this verse would have you to look at ("and he shall rule over you").

My translations says, Gen 3:16 [color=0033FF]Then he said to the woman, "You will bear children with intense pain and suffering. And though your desire will be for your husband, * he will be your master".[/color]

 2009/1/8 16:49Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

bluinos wrote:
Logic,

You are emphasizing on the word [color=CC3366]multiply[/color]

In your heart of hearts it's conception that you are questiong, but the Spirit of the Lord in this verse would have you to look at ("and he shall rule over you").

My translations says, Gen 3:16 [color=0033FF]Then he said to the woman, "You will bear children with intense pain and suffering. And though your desire will be for your husband, * he will be your master".[/color]

No, in my "heart of hearts" it's [b]multiply[/b] that I'm asking about.

Re-read the question, if you have an oppinion, please give one.

 2009/1/8 17:08Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Asking oppinions of Gen 3:16

Interesting question.

Clarke states: [i]"I will greatly multiply, or multiplying I will multiply; i.e., I will multiply thy sorrows, and multiply those sorrows by other sorrows, and this during conception and pregnancy, and particularly so in parturition or child-bearing."[/i]

He seems to imply that it could mean "I will give you great sorrow" in conception.

However, I see your point, it does seem that to multiply something you would have to have a starting value, since zero multiplied by anything is zero.

I looked at the Hebrew word, and found this lexicon entry:

[i]"be or become great, be or become many, be or become much, be or become numerous"[/i]

It seems like perhaps our common use of the word multiply (arithmetically), is not always the same sense behind the Biblical use of the word "multiply"?


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/1/8 18:25Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re: Asking oppinions of Gen 3:16

Hi Logic...

Quote:

[/b]KJV[/b]
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

[b]NIV[/b]
"To the woman he said,
'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.'"

[b]NASB[/b]
To the woman He said,
"I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you."


As far as I understand, this says that God increased (or multiplied) the pain experienced by women when giving birth conception.

:-(


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Christopher

 2009/1/8 20:20Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

I am asking because there could have been an increase from previous conceptions.

That would mean Adam & Eve had childeren before they ate from that Tree.

 2009/1/8 21:08Profile









 Re:

you asked for opinion.
My answer would be that it primarily is emphasis on future child bearing and those children would bring sorrow or challenges that would not have been there before the fall. Cain is a good example. I would assume Eve felt sorrow over Gods rejection of Cains offering etc.
Children before the fall? maybe, but I doudt it.
Again just opinion on what I see as something to not be to dogmatic about. I am not saying you are suggesting we be dogmatic about it. God bless!

 2009/1/8 21:41
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hi Logic...

That is precisely my point: We don't KNOW whether or not Adam and Eve had children before they ate from the Tree...or even before Cain and Abel. It is pure conjecture to say yes...or no. The Scriptures seem to be quite silent on the matter. Even if you think that they aren't silent, then you must admit that it is highly speculative in the very least.

The Scripture passage that you quoted could mean that the process for giving birth might have multiplied in regard to pain that a woman would experience...even though no children had ever been born from a womb yet. Then again, it is possible that Adam and Eve could have given birth to other children. Intellectually, I lean toward the former...simply because there is no record of children being born BEFORE the curse.

In my opinion, it just isn't very important either way. We know that God literally made Adam and Eve (just as the Scriptures explain). We know that they gave birth to at least Cain, Abel and Seth...and possibly many more (either before or later). We can certainly entertain these questions, but we should be pretty quick to recognize that many such questions are just conjecture at best.

Back to the question: I don't think the Bible gives a clear answer to your question.

:-)


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Christopher

 2009/1/9 0:46Profile
White_Stone
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 what TaylorOtwell said matches my opinion

Quote:
[b][color=0000CC][font=Verdana]I looked at the Hebrew word, and found this lexicon entry: "be or become great, be or become many, be or become much, be or become numerous" It seems like perhaps our common use of the word multiply (arithmetically), is not always the same sense behind the Biblical use of the word "multiply"?[/font][/color][/b]



This satisfies me on the question.

As to there being children before the fall, personally I feel if it was necessary for us to know God would have written it down for us. I do not care to speculate but believe it is possible but that fact is not necessary for our salvation.

For a time I had an interest in reading Bible commentaries written by a man named Rice. The one on Genesis was very interesting, possibly enlightening, even but, after consulting with my husband I put the books away and am reading only God's word. On points that are open to speculation, he felt the man, however motivated he may have been, injected too much questionable theories. While I feel competent to pick the meat from the bones my husband feels it safer to not take a chance on choking on a sliver of bone I might have missed.

I do not worry myself with points I do not understand. If/when it is necessary for me to know or understand I trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth. In the meantime, time I may have spent questioning how many children Adam and Eve had and when they were birthed can be better spent reading the Gospels, the Epistles and most of all The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Kind regards,
white stone


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Janice

 2009/1/9 12:18Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: what TaylorOtwell said matches my opinion

Thanx y'all :-)

 2009/1/9 13:00Profile





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