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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I thought it was an interesting verse, thats all, I do have a christmastree in my house, i dont pass judgment on anyone that has, the verse made me go a bit like Michael "wow".


I understand brother. I first saw this verse the year after I got saved; the person who showed me it was wresting it to use against Christmas trees - and I was pretty impressed. That was the surface reaction. But if you really sit back and soberly look at the verse in the context of the book of Jeremiah as a whole, the knee-jerk reaction to Christmas will fade. The verse is speaking of idolatry, of people carving "gods" out of dead, dumb wood, and Jeremiah 10 is basically God mocking this foolishness.

Now, these verses in the hand of an uninformed and angry person with a chip on his/her shoulders against Christmas will transform it into a weapon to stumble other believers. What we see happen is the actual equivalent of a spiritual "strawman" argument. I guess we can call it a "treeman" here :-)

I didn't think that this was your intent, Christian. I'm sorry that I didn't put down a disclaimer. Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year dear brother.

p.s. We didn't get a tree this year. Too busy at the funeral home and my wife and I are just being lazy. This is the last year we celebrate the holidays and New Year with just the two of us :)

Lord willing, with the baby next year, we'll have a beautiful tree with all the garland and lights and lots of photographs and memories to share with my family.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/12/26 15:04Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
We didn't get a tree this year. Too busy at the funeral home and my wife and I are just being lazy. This is the last year we celebrate the holidays and New Year with just the two of us :)

Lord willing, with the baby next year, we'll have a beautiful tree with all the garland and lights and lots of photographs and memories to share with my family.




I rejoice with you and your wife, i have quiver full my self :-) , i pray all goes well. I was still an unbeliever when my first children came into the world, i had twins first time and it was very powerful, i remember i thought in my unconverted state that there must be a God, because such perfection can not come from nothing, evolution happened by chance ect.

Truly this is wonderful brother, congratulations to you and your wife. May the Lord grant you a house full of energetic children that make you age ;-)

Also, one thing i noted for myself is, the revelation of God as a loving father becomes somewhat stronger when you have your own children. Anyway, its incredible and i am glad you will receive this blessing brother.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/26 15:51Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

As I read this thread, I am becoming more and more convinced that the trees are indeed an idol.

Personally, the Lord has shown me that this is something that He does not want me to have - so I will obey. If next year, He directs me to put up a tree, I will obey. Similarly, if He wants me to go into a bar, I will go in. If He wants me to stay out, I will stay out. Only He knows what is right. He has proven this to me time and again. My wisdom is but foolishness.

It would seem, after the things that I have read here, that it would be wise to at least pray before we make a decision on these things - for there will be a price to be paid in going forward in our own strength.

When I was a teenager, I played with a Ouji board. When it moved on it's own, it scared me and I never played with one again. However, when the Lord was purging me of all of the evil of my past, this was one of the things that I had to repent of - even though I did not understand fully what I had done. I actually went and dug up the picture that was taken of me using the board - and I burned it. While the Lord has not had me repent of having Christmas trees, we must take into consideration that there are spiritual things happening that we are not aware of. The enemy would have us align ourselves with the things of this world, and only our Saviour can save us from doing such things.

 2008/12/26 16:43Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


Quote:
As I read this thread, I am becoming more and more convinced that the trees are indeed an idol.




I would like to make a general suggestion here if I could?


I do not think that a strong response to something is nescessarily an indication that the thing is an idol to others.

For instance, implications or things that are implied by the introduction of a topic can be offensive and can provoke a strong response also.


Like if a man were to walk into a crowded room and announce to everyone that [b]the room stinks[/b]. That persons opinon about the room would likely be offensive to those who were already in it, even if they couldn't care less about the room itself.


In the same way, being reproached as an idolater could be offensive also, whether you care about the supposed idol or not.


The Apostle Paul asks


[i]...who is offended, and I burn not? [/i]



As much as we ought to be carefull to guard against idolatry, we ought also be carefull to guard against falsely charging the consciences of others with guilt. There are consequences for going forward with that also. Amen?


Grace and peace to you all.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/26 17:39Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Quote:
falsely charging the consciences of others with guilt.


Can someone please explain to me what this is?



Pretty much everything I say seems to be offensive. :-?

 2008/12/26 19:08Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Heartsong,


About charging others with guilt,

You had said before that you were increasingly convinced after reading this thread that the Christmas trees were idols.

If they are not, and others take what you have said to be true, and feel guilty of idolatry for having them in their homes, wouldn't this be like placing guilt in the conscience of others that is not right or should not rightfully be there?



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/26 21:40Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

How can it be that my words would "place guilt" in the conscience of others?

From what I have experienced, there are two influences - good and evil. If I have my eyes on the Lord, and am abiding in Him, what others say is of very little consequence regarding the things that I do, or do not do. However, if I have taken my eyes off of the Lord, or have taken to doing things outside of His will, the voices of others can be VERY condemning.

It is not my intention to "place guilt" on others. Another one of my concerns is that all of the justification of these Christmas traditions could lure others away from being obedient unto the Lord, for He has had me to cease from such things, and I am sure that He would have the same for others.

For what it is worth, the Lord has given me visions of these Christmas threads as being the equivalent of "dancing around the golden calf" (the mention of same, earlier in this thread, brought it all to the surface again). This has been very painful as I have considered many of you to be my friends, but I can not endure the mocking of my Lord.

 2008/12/26 23:27Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Would anyone care to define 'idol', preferably from the biblical context?

 2008/12/26 23:43Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

I am not sure if this is the biblical context, but I understand it to be anything that I love more than the Lord Jesus.

 2008/12/26 23:46Profile
dspks
Member



Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 162
Dakotas

 Re:

"For when one says, "I am for Christmas trees (of Paul)," and another, "I am not for Christmas trees (of Apollos)," are you not carnal." 1Cointhians 3:4 (revised version)

 2008/12/26 23:57Profile





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