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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

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hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

A brother showed me this verse today:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (KJV).

I guess christmas trees arent a new thing


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/25 16:47Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

Wow, hadn't noticed that passage.

I'm sure their motives for cutting and decorating trees were different. My mother doesn't worship hers. In fact, if you asked her why she has it, she would probably say, "it was pretty, and on sale."

If you warned her, "did you know those were used in German pagan worship rituals," she would say, "Really?! What morons they were to worship trees instead of God who made them! Do you like mine? It's very pretty, isn't it."

 2008/12/25 17:06Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I found the history in this article interesting.

[url=http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/thepastinthepresent/storybehind/whychristmastrees.html?start=1]Why do we have Christmas trees?[/url]


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Josh Parsley

 2008/12/25 17:49Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

[b]Jeremiah 10:2-4[/b] [color=990000]Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, [b]the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.[/b] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.[/color]

They make an idol out of the tree, by forming the wood with an ax.
They don't make a tree onto an idol.

 2008/12/25 18:27Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

Hi everyone,


Quote:
They make an idol out of the tree, by forming the wood with an ax.





I think that the idol is made by the worship given to it and the place it is given in the heart, and when that which is not God is treated as though it were:


"They [i]are[/i] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [i]is it[/i] in them to do good."

- Jeremiah 10:5(KJV)




I once questioned a group of people that were preaching downtown during Christmas about this subject. This passage from Jeremiah was one of the passages they appealed to in railing against Christmas trees.

They suggested to me that if I were to place a package in front of a Christmas tree, and kneel down in the process of doing it, that the act of doing so would be contrary to the law against idolatry in Exodus.



I asked them what they thought of God's commandment to Moses to make a serpent and put it on a pole in the wilderness:


"And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."


- Numbers 21:8(KJV)


Was it an act of idolatry for the Israelites to look upon a brassen serpent fixed to a wooden pole? But those that looked, believing the word of God through Moses, it says, were healed:


"And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."


- Numbers 21:9(KJV)


And were they not clear in this because their faith was toward God in what He had said?



But I think that we ought to be carefull not to trouble the consciences of those who have liberty and an otherwise clear concience in what they have in their private homes before God.








Grace and peace to you all in Christ.




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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/25 21:35Profile
HomeFree89
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Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

As Logic already pointed out, the people in question here are making an idol out of the tree. If you continue with that reasoning, then you wouldn't be able to have pictures up on your wall, etc.


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Jordan

 2008/12/26 11:52Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
If you continue with that reasoning, then you wouldn't be able to have pictures up on your wall, etc.


Or a marriage ring on your finger. The ring symbolizing the circular union of marriage is a pagan custom, and has no biblical foundation. So what do we do? Boycott wedding bands and stigmatize all who wear them as minions of Baal? Sanctimoniously, it makes all the sense in the world...

Where will it end? If you allow bitterness to grasp you, it will eat away like a canker. Yes, I said bitterness. The most lethal cankers are those that expand in the realm of spirit, cloaked by an auora of "godliness" and "sanctification" by those whose consciences are offended by certain objects they deem as pagan. In most cases, however, the consciences of these believers are surprisingly accomodating and malleable when the issue of jeopardizing their own personal comfort and convenience comes into play.

What happens is, in their irrepressible quest to be holy and separate from pagandom, they surface-scan the scriptures and tediously pick apart the etymology of each and every event in life that others might find enjoyment in. If they find any trace of an element that doesnt conform to their preconceived ideal of how Christianity should operate, the whole shebang is automatically labelled anathema and discarded. Deep down, however, these "anathema hunters" are full of unrest, critique and disdain. It is a paradox; you would think God would verify their zealous disassociations and pagan insights, but, for the most part, the Lord does not infer His fragrance upon their critiques. I think He does not touch them, because He knows the root from which they bloom. The more dry, the more parched the dirt, the less likely a frangrant flower will take root. Instead, we see wildflowers, crab grass, ragwed and cactus. I propose that much of the sharpshooting and pagan allegations we see this time of the year (and in general) are nothing more than wildflowers. They look pretty from a distance - brilliant colors - but have no aroma of sweetness. They smell like dirt up close. And a factor that contribues to their resplendency it the fact that they all bunch togeter in one patch.


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/12/26 13:25Profile
bonni
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Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re:

Hello and blessings everyone,

This thread caught my attention because I had just read this passage again last week.

Logic quoted that the people were not worshiping the "tree" so to speak, but that they were cutting down a tree out of the forest so that they could carve an image out of the wood.

I agree, I too feel that this is what these verses mean.

Of course that does not mean that everything or image that a person carves out of wood is an idol, (for instance, little farm animals I gave my grandchildren) it just means that we are not to carve or make anything for the purpose of worshiping it.

These people would then decorate the carved image with gold and silver and stand it up and worship it.

This sounds a lot like when the Israelites formed an image out of melted gold (golden calf).
It also makes me think of a totem pole.
The difference was one was carved out of wood, the other was formed of gold.

Here's where the sin lies,


The Israelites made the image of the golden calf to worship... just like the heathen that Jeremiah referred to were doing.

I bought a bronze statue of a buffalo for my husband to place next to his sharps rifle and buffalo picture, I appreciate it's beauty and somebody's talent....

But I worship GOD


Blessings, bonni


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Bonni

 2008/12/26 14:16Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

I thought it was an interesting verse, thats all, I do have a christmastree in my house, i dont pass judgment on anyone that has, the verse made me go a bit like Michael "wow".

I believe this is under the freedom Paul speaks about, some eat some dont. Seeing it pretty much is the same principal i think. Some dont feel ok with it and dont have it, some feel ok with it and have it.



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CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/26 14:46Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
What happens is, in their irrepressible quest to be holy and separate from pagandom, they surface-scan the scriptures and tediously pick apart the etymology of each and every event in life that others might find enjoyment in. If they find any trace of an element that doesnt conform to their preconceived ideal of how Christianity should operate, the whole shebang is automatically labelled anathema and discarded. Deep down, however, these "anathema hunters" are full of unrest, critique and disdain. It is a paradox; you would think God would verify their zealous disassociations and pagan insights, but, for the most part, the Lord does not infer His fragrance upon their critiques. I think He does not touch them, because He knows the root from which they bloom. The more dry, the more parched the dirt, the less likely a frangrant flower will take root. Instead, we see wildflowers, crab grass, ragwed and cactus. I propose that much of the sharpshooting and pagan allegations we see this time of the year (and in general) are nothing more than wildflowers. They look pretty from a distance - brilliant colors - but have no aroma of sweetness. They smell like dirt up close. And a factor that contribues to their visual resplendency it the fact that they all bunch togeter in one patch.



I am sorry if i have done this, I need to take a step back and consider the things you say. Thank you for saying so.


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/26 14:56Profile





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