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rreighe
Member



Joined: 2008/12/23
Posts: 124


 This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

hello, i am allan. i have 2 questions. they are about Jesus's 2nd comming, and the one's who never get the chance to even know he exist.

1 cor 15 (soemthing) says that we will get caught up, but it does not say anything about a rapture. i need more contex from bible sources that points to this being us dissapearing "in the twinkling of an eye" (tim layhay's title) my pastor said that someone from the 1830's "fabricated" it, we didn't get into it because i caught him at a busy time so i think that he didn't give my question enough time to gather his thoughts. I d k on weather we who are alive are to go through the 7(+) years of the tribulation or if we who have Christ or have died with Christ and God are going to dissapear at relitivly the same time (with the dead 1st obviusly)

another question (and i will ask all the pastors i know thies too) what happens to the one's that never had a chance? like in the civilizations with no thought of christ and where there is people who die without ever even knowing?!?! they dont even get a chance! it doesn't make sense! will Chris of Michael the two realy cool arch angels or somehting like that go and preach? i'm not talking aobut during the antichrist era but now and 4 years ago and 700+ years ago! it doesn't make sense that he would allow people to never get the chance! i cna understand the choice part, because that one is obvious but the never even knowing the existense of!


_________________
allan

 2008/12/23 13:53Profile
Abe_Juliot
Member



Joined: 2008/5/11
Posts: 129
Southern California

 Re: This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

Quote:
another question (and i will ask all the pastors i know thies too) what happens to the one's that never had a chance? like in the civilizations with no thought of christ and where there is people who die without ever even knowing?!?! they dont even get a chance! it doesn't make sense! will Chris of Michael the two realy cool arch angels or somehting like that go and preach? i'm not talking aobut during the antichrist era but now and 4 years ago and 700+ years ago! it doesn't make sense that he would allow people to never get the chance! i cna understand the choice part, because that one is obvious but the never even knowing the existense of!



They go to hell forever because they are sinners who love their sin. The more that sinners know about God, the more they will hate Him. Unregenerate men are all children of the devil. They love darkness and hate the light. God is not obligated to love any of us. God hates all workers of iniquity and His wrath abides upon those who perish in their sins. No one will ever believe the gospel apart from the Sovereign mercy of regeneration by the Word of God.

The gospel is not a chance or an opportunity. Salvation is a sovereign gift of God. Unreached civilizations know enough about God to hate him and rebel against Him. Have you never read what God says about these unreached civilizations?
ROMANS 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:18-21

God is not obligated to show mercy to any of us. God would still be a God of mercy and love if He sent all humanity to hell with no gospel. His mercy only would not have been expressed to us. God showed no mercy to the angels who fell with Satan. God sent them no savior. God showed them no mercy. Should we accuse God of injustice for not redeeming the devils. Why then should we accuse God of injustice for not showing redeeming mercy to all men individually... When we all are guilty of following the Devil as children of wrath continually do?

Also, beware of False Liberal heresy that teaches:
'If men will just be good people and obey their consciences... they would be saved.' This is heresy and a denial that Salvation is only through the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, it is a denial of the testimony that God has declared concerning the unregenerate man. There is none that seeks God. Which implies that no one desires to please Him.

I encourage you to read these articles:
[url=http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?439]Four Kinds of Universalism[/url]

[url=http://www.levant.info/MER029.html]Universalism in Modern Missionary Thinking[/url]

[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByConference/18/]Universalism and the Reality of Eternal Punishment (MP3 Series) [/url]

Blessings to the glory of God! -Abraham

EDIT: Sentance structure


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Abraham Juliot

 2008/12/23 16:44Profile









 Re: This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

Quote:

rreighe wrote:
1 cor 15 (soemthing) says that we will get caught up, but it does not say anything about a rapture. i need more contex from bible sources that points to this being us dissapearing "in the twinkling of an eye" (tim layhay's title) my pastor said that someone from the 1830's "fabricated" it, we didn't get into it because i caught him at a busy time so i think that he didn't give my question enough time to gather his thoughts. I d k on weather we who are alive are to go through the 7(+) years of the tribulation or if we who have Christ or have died with Christ and God are going to dissapear at relitivly the same time (with the dead 1st obviusly)



You will likely get a number of different answers to this question. I think I would probably agree with your pastor [not knowing where he is coming from I cannot say for certain]. The 'secret rapture' teaching seems to have originated in 1830 with a man nameed Edward Irving. I see no Biblical merit for the position. Do keep reading and studying your Bible - and pray always for God to reveal His truths to you.

God bless you.

 2008/12/23 16:56
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

We see from romans God will judge them by their conscience, but i dont think you have to worrie to much, the Lord God will do right to all men according to their works.

We have men in OT that God said where righteous. We do have a better covent now and we have responsiility to get the gospel out to all so all can have a chance to repent and belive, God has given His free gift of salvation to all men and all who are willing to repent and belive will be saved.

Christ blood is enough a price for all mankind. There is more power in a drop of that blood then all of mens blood that ever lived.

But those who never heard the gospel have Gods laws in them, and God will judge them according to the light they have.

but just as Job could be the most righteous man on earth without a bible or the spirit as we know it, its a crying shame if we who claim so much grace and being his children if our lifes come short of that.

Anyhow, most people will go to hell sadly, not because they where without any chance of knowing christ, ut because they loved the created more then the creator. Loved sin more then Him, of whom all men have knowledge. Some more some less.

But the comfort is,God will do right, and also its very comforting God is a God of love just as much as he is a God of judgment. He is not willing that any should perish. Glory to His name.

peace and grace


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/23 17:19Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

Quote:
1 cor 15 (soemthing) says that we will get caught up, but it does not say anything about a rapture. i need more contex from bible sources that points to this being us dissapearing "in the twinkling of an eye" (tim layhay's title) my pastor said that someone from the 1830's "fabricated" it, we didn't get into it because i caught him at a busy time so i think that he didn't give my question enough time to gather his thoughts. I d k on weather we who are alive are to go through the 7(+) years of the tribulation or if we who have Christ or have died with Christ and God are going to dissapear at relitivly the same time (with the dead 1st obviusly)




an excellent site you must check out and it has so much good biblical sound articles from a wide range of authors. In my opinion :-)

[url=http://olivetdiscourse.com/]http://olivetdiscourse.com/[/url]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/23 17:23Profile
boG
Member



Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV

 Re: This doesn't make sense! 2 Qs

[b]First question:[/b] the rapture.
My answer to this is very simple. It doesn't matter. Are you prepared to stand before the face of God and give an account for the life you have lived? Are you prepared for eternity? If yes, then you are prepared for the rapture and the tribulation. If we are raptured pre-trib, rejoice and be glad; if mid-trib, rejoice and be glad; if post-trib, rejoice and be glad. Are you even certain you shall live to see that rapture or the tribulation, are you promised to live to the day? All that matters is that your name be written in the Lamb's book of Life. Try not to get distracted by all of these controversial end-time prophecies. The reason I say this is because not everything has been revealed concerning these things and yet there are a 101 commentaries that all claim to have it all figured out. It doesn't matter. One way or another, you get to heaven. In the meantime, don't worry about tomorrow, concern yourself with today and judgment day.


[b]Second question:[/b]
"what happens to the one's that never had a chance? like in the civilizations with no thought of christ and where there is people who die without ever even knowing?!?! they dont even get a chance!"

Now this is an assumption. Brother Abe has said the truth.

1) Your first assumption is that these people do not know God.

[b]Romans 1
18.[/b] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[b]19.[/b] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[b]20.[/b] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[b]21.[/b] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

2) Your second assumption is that they have never had the chance to hear of Christ. I assure you, the providence of God's grace upon all men has seen to it. To think that someone has not had the chance, or shall not have the chance, is to have little faith in the lovingkindness of God in Christ Jesus. [edit: Just to clarify, to have the chance of knowing Christ is obviously not the same as actually having a knowledge of Christ. Either way, if someone has not believed in the Son of God then the root of that sin first began when they hated to retain God in their knowledge. Therefore, if the unbeliever has no love for the knowledge of God then 1) they are justly condemned and, 2) there is no benefit in revealing Christ to them. If they have hated God, how shall they love the Son of God?] His Spirit is in all places, moving upon all people: through his saints, prophets and evangelists, and even through dreams and visions (believe me I have heard many testimonies). No one has escaped the gospel of Christ and this is the very reason they shall be condemned to eternal hell. For the Holy Evangelist Himself has testified

[b]John 3
14.[/b] as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[b]15.[/b] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[b]16.[/b] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[b]17.[/b] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[b]18.[/b] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[b]19.[/b] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Therefore, no one is judged according to darkness or ignorance. But every man is judged according to the light -- according to the truth they have suppressed in unrighteousness. (It is quite impossible to suppress truth unless you have it first revealed to you.) For "the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent." Therefore, do not consider so impotently the witness of the Holy Spirit and of the body of Christ in this world. Be confident in this: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?


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Jordan

 2008/12/23 18:19Profile
rreighe
Member



Joined: 2008/12/23
Posts: 124


 Re:

My pastor said that the rapture was made up in the 1830's by somone to use as a hook to get people into God. and that REvelations was based on when the Romans time, not a prediction book. that it was for us to know that he is just and does right. he also said that Tim LaHaye and Jerry B Jenkins attened a seminar in Dallas where they strongly belive in the rapture and that is how they got helped with that idea.

we are in mid texas any way you look at it, north south, we are in the middle of texas. i wont say the exact city becasue..... but that is were we are basicly.

if the rapture is a made up thing than so many will be decived becasue that would mean there is no antichrist and no false prophet and none of that and no 7 year tribulation and the worst part of all, when all of the prophecys people said.... http://contenderministries.org/prophecy/endtimes.php .... will be fake and with just that people will loose their faith in God and then what?


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allan

 2008/12/23 19:59Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

boG, well said.

 2008/12/23 20:27Profile





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