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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Dave Ramsey & Financial Peace University

I was wondering if anybody out there had any thoughts in regard to the advice/services/programs provided by Dave Ramsey? Have any of you done the "total money makeover?"

Also, what do you think of Dave Ramsey in comparison to Crown Financial?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/12/23 9:55Profile









 Re: Dave Ramsey & Financial Peace University

Yep... we did. It's great. Common sense stuff, and very scriptural. He's a guy who failed miserably financially, and then began to follow Biblical principles and turned it all around.

It's not "get rich quick" or anything like that. It's about living within your means, sacrificing, and getting/staying out of debt. It's about shedding yourself of materialism, which is the greatest cause of debt.

He has a show now on FoxNews, or FoxBusiness. Cant remember which. Also has a radio show I listen to.

I highly recommend it.

Krispy

 2008/12/23 10:10
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

How do you presonally respond to those who would say that setting aside "emergency funds" and savings in general are contrary to "living by faith?"


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Jimmy H

 2008/12/23 10:13Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:

How do you presonally respond to those who would say that setting aside "emergency funds" and savings in general are contrary to "living by faith?"



Well, I think that finances is only one way in which we live by faith. If we take this attitude to extremes we would not participate in Social Security and would reject any gov't based help.

I think the key is that we do not 'trust' in uncertain riches. Look at Job a very rich man. When God got ready to test His faith He knew that the Devil knew how to unload ALL of Jobs assets to the point of 'nakedness'.

I would say don't try to be faithful in a trial God has not put you in. In other words, don't make for yourselves trials and hardships to try to prove something. Life will deal you plenty of opportunities. ;-)

You need money to be hospitable. If the Samaritin were broke, busted and disgusted (as we sometimes say here), how would he have helped? Work with your hands the thing which is good so you can have to give to those in need. Wealth is not a sin. Greed is a sin.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/23 10:34Profile









 Re:

Well... I would say it's foolish not to put aside an emergency fund. Living by faith is not the same thing as living hand to mouth. Or paycheck to paycheck. The reason most people (including Christians) dont have an emergency fund is [b]not[/b] because they are living by faith, but because they are living beyond their means.

If someone wants to interpret "living by faith" in these terms then cancel your health insurance, your life insurance... and your car insurance. Take it one step further and let your car registration run out... and have faith you won't get caught.

I know that in most areas of the world this is how people live. Hand to mouth. But in this country, where our poorest are richer than the poor in other parts of the world... if God enables you to set aside a certain amount of money in order to keep your family fed and warm, and you dont do it... you're a fool.

I cant put my finger on them right now, but there is a lot of scripture in Proverbs especially that deals with exactly this.

That would be my answer, brother.

These kind of questions are in the same vein as "would you stop and intruder from killing your family since the Bible says 'Thou shalt not kill'?"

I understand why you're asking that, KJ. It is a legitimate question, but the reality is... most believer dont have savings because they are materialistic. And many believers will use the "living by faith" argument to justify their living beyond their means.

Krispy

 2008/12/23 10:35









 Re:

Quote:
I would say don't try to be faithful in a trial God has not put you in. In other words, don't make for yourselves trials and hardships to try to prove something. Life will deal you plenty of opportunities.



Amen, bro! Thats good stuff right there. Can I use that in a teaching sometime??

Krispy

 2008/12/23 10:36
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I perfectly agree with the both of you :-) Indeed, I was thinking upon it recently, and have personally determined that the Scriptures promise us hardship will come our way. We live in a world full of decay, and by faith we can recognize these things and plan accordingly, just as Joseph did taking advantage of the seven years of plenty so as to come out ahead during the seven years of famine.

Also, I'm curious, what is Ramsey's justification that debt is only ok in the case of taking out a 15 year fixed rate loan for a house? He seems to abhor debt for anything else but that.


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Jimmy H

 2008/12/23 10:46Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Amen, bro! Thats good stuff right there. Can I use that in a teaching sometime??



Well, if God leads by all means...

I say that because I have found that in life when I had less money- money was the trial. When I had more money health issues were the trial. When I had good health and a little money other problems became the trial. So, there are plenty of trials to go around. ;-)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/23 10:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I perfectly agree with the both of you Indeed, I was thinking upon it recently, and have personally determined that the Scriptures promise us hardship will come our way. We live in a world full of decay, and by faith we can recognize these things and plan accordingly, just as Joseph did taking advantage of the seven years of plenty so as to come out ahead during the seven years of famine.



Ahhh!! Thank you. I drew a blank trying to think of a scriptural example! You nailed it. Joseph had a 7 yr emergency fund set aside under the direction of God Himself.

Quote:
Also, I'm curious, what is Ramsey's justification that debt is only ok in the case of taking out a 15 year fixed rate loan for a house? He seems to abhor debt for anything else but that.



The reason is that real estate is about the only thing that increases in value. Well, right now it isnt, but this is an unusual time. He does not recommend a 30 yr mortgage because your return takes too long. But on a 15 year you pay less interest, and you realize equity very quickly because you're paying down the principle faster whily the value of your house rises. (Again, right at the moment this isnt happening, but once the market adjusts, real estate will gain value again)

Car loans... you're upside down on it as soon as you drive the car out of the lot. Credit Cards nothing more than organized crime.

Never never never get an adjustable rate mortgage. It's part of the reason we're in the mortgage mess we're in right now. Rates went up, people couldn't make the payments. Voila... foreclosure.

Krispy

 2008/12/23 10:57
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I've listened to the audio book of the Total Money Makeover by Ramsey, and liked it quite a bit. It still left me with a question or two. Such as, does Dave believe you should cut out giving/tithing while paying off your debts?


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Jimmy H

 2008/12/23 11:45Profile





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