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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Motives behind Conditional/Eternal Security

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 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
BEWARE OF PHILOSPHERS



I agree with that.

Old Joe

 2008/12/29 8:13









 Re:

Quote:

sonofthunder wrote:
SERIOUSLY WHY WOULD ANYBODY BOTHER PUTTING PRECIOUS ENERGY INTO THESE KINDS OF POSTS ... THAT END UP IN BICKERING AND SQUABLINGS?????????



Because the Bible teaches us that if someone doesn't HAVE EVERLASTING life, that is a condition we should be concerned about on their behalf.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Old Joe

 2008/12/29 8:16
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Motives behind Conditional/Eternal Security

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.
Rom 8:12 So, then,[b] brothers,[/b] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh,
Rom 8:13 for [b]if[/b] you live according to flesh, [b]you[/b] are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.



Its simple, brethren is fellow brother in Christ or several of them, and Paul says if you live according to the flesh you will die, if you live according to the spirit you will live.

I say as dr Tozer, "i am convinced about eternal security for my own sake, others im not to sure about."

Gods peace and blessing to all who work out their salvation with fear and trembling and in making their election sure. Gods wisdom is higher then ours, when someone claim they have it figured out we can be sure he know nothing as he ought to know. Including doctrines.

But love my brethren, love....


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/29 8:31Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re:

Sorry for back tracking but I believe this is pertinent to your whole discussion....

Brother Abe wrote way back....

Quote:
The Lord gave me a verse in Psalm 23 a few years ago to comfort me when I was fearing that I might lose my salvation and perish in the end. "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever." (Psa 23:6) Oh, that word "surely" became a precious promise to my weary soul in those dark days of despair.




I rejoice in your testimony of how God spoke to you.

Secondly...Have you considered that God spoke these very words to David for the same reason?

Thirdly...what might this mean in terms of the doctrines we try to support?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2008/12/29 8:40Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

[i]And I will make an [u]everlasting covenant[/u] with them, that [b]I will not turn away from them[/b], to do them good; but [b]I will put my fear in their hearts, that [u]they shall not depart from me.[/u][/b][/i] (Jeremiah 32:40)

[i]Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the [u]everlasting covenant[/u]...[/i] (Hebrews 13:20)

I mention the Hebrews verse to show that the Jeremiah passage is talking about New Covenant promises. This is no "philosophy", this is simple Scripture reading.

People are simply going to have to ask themselves: "do I want to cut this verse out of my Bible, or do I want to believe it?"

Yes, we know that there are verses in the Bible that warn against apostasy. Every sound believer that believed the Bible's promises on God's preservation of his people has exhorted professors to make their calling and election sure. However, the Bible [b]plainly[/b] states that those who partake in the New Covenant both are preserved by God, and will never turn away from God.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/12/29 8:52Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

Old_Joe wrote:
Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:
Quote:
What motivates you to perseverance in practical holiness?



Seeking to glorify my Lord.



Therein lies the problem, because you are only seeking to glorify Him, you are not really sure that you are doing it. But it begs the question, how exactly does YOU persevering bring glory to God? Is it not just another way to bring glory to yourself?

Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:
Quote:
If you believe loss of salvation is even possible, through an attempt at preservation of self, it is a key motivator in your perseverance.



Why would I believe that I could lose my salvation if I was wanting to preserve self? I could, in an easier way, just believe in OSAS and feel totally secure that self is preserved.


If salvation can be lost, then your salvation can be lost, PERIOD. Only a charlatan would preach that others can lose their salvation, but they themselves cannot.

If you were totally preserved, then there would be no possibility of other motive for your perseverance than the glory of God. It is only when you believe you have a hand in your own preservation that your part in it automatically becomes a key motive for your perseverance.

Old Joe



Old Joe,

I'm am stepping out of this thread. Say what I will, there is no getting around your biased and preconceived notions about those of us who don't believe in eternal security.

As I pointed out in my first post, there are misunderstandings (however, there appears to be some twisting of words on purpose here) on both sides.

I wish you the best in Christ Jesus.


_________________
Jordan

 2008/12/29 9:01Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Old_Joe,


You said,


"It helps them determine their condition."



Says who, you?

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Apostles tell you to do this? Are [b]you God[/b]?, that you can wheigh men's motives and determine their conditions?



Quote:
One can be saved and not know they have eternal security, but because not knowing they have eternal security is a characteristic of the lost, those who do not have it ought to be questioned.




[i]not knowing they have eternal security is a characteristic of the lost[/i]


Where are these words in the Bible. Are they your words, or did they come from somewhere else?








The question that you asked was:


[i]What motivates you to perseverance in practical holiness? Potential loss of salvation, or the glory of God?[/i]




Who told you to ask the people here these questions?


But, in response to your questions, I gave you the refrences in the sciptures. Instead of filling the pages here with more of your own words, why not [b]examine what motives are suggested in those exhortations in answer to your question[/b].




Quote:
Those are all fine exhortations meant for those who already HAVE everlasting life. They are meaningless for those who do not HAVE everlasting life.




The same applies. You asked


Quote:
What motivates you to perseverance in practical holiness? Potential loss of salvation, or the glory of God?



Why not examine the passages and determine what motives the Bible is giving. Instead of going on with your opinions?



Quote:
Of course we are not supposed to despise the gift of life, but we are to acknowledge that we HAVE the gift of EVERLASTING life.




This isn't what you had said before either.


You said,


Quote:
At that point your perseverance is not a denial of self, but a mere service of self, having its root in motivation of self-love.




To which I gave you the refrences in the scriptures. Why don't you examine those passages and see what motives they are giving. Instead of going on with more of your opinions, Old_Joe?



Whether the Lord's Jesus' warnings there are a service of self or not, you decide. But why don't you take up your grievances with Him instead of questioning the people here about their motives in taking heed to [b]His words[/b]?















_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/29 9:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Old_Joe,


You said,


"It helps them determine their condition."



Says who, you?

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Apostles tell you to do this? Are [b]you God[/b]?, that you can wheigh men's motives and determine their conditions?



Quote:
One can be saved and not know they have eternal security, but because not knowing they have eternal security is a characteristic of the lost, those who do not have it ought to be questioned.




[i]not knowing they have eternal security is a characteristic of the lost[/i]


Where are these words in the Bible. Are they your words, or did they come from somewhere else?








The question that you asked was:


[i]What motivates you to perseverance in practical holiness? Potential loss of salvation, or the glory of God?[/i]




Who told you to ask the people here these questions?


But, in response to your questions, I gave you the refrences in the sciptures. Instead of filling the pages here with more of your own words, why not [b]examine what motives are suggested in those exhortations in answer to your question[/b].




Quote:
Those are all fine exhortations meant for those who already HAVE everlasting life. They are meaningless for those who do not HAVE everlasting life.




The same applies. You asked


Quote:
What motivates you to perseverance in practical holiness? Potential loss of salvation, or the glory of God?



Why not examine the passages and determine what motives the Bible is giving. Instead of going on with your opinions?



Quote:
Of course we are not supposed to despise the gift of life, but we are to acknowledge that we HAVE the gift of EVERLASTING life.




This isn't what you had said before either.


You said,


Quote:
At that point your perseverance is not a denial of self, but a mere service of self, having its root in motivation of self-love.




To which I gave you the refrences in the scriptures. Why don't you examine those passages and see what motives they are giving. Instead of going on with more of your opinions, Old_Joe?



Whether the Lord's Jesus' warnings there are a service of self or not, you decide. But why don't you take up your grievances with Him instead of questioning the people here about their motives in taking heed to [b]His words[/b]?


I have answered all your previous questions and only asked you one question in return, here it is again.

When Paul says that "Christ died for the ungodly", are you ungodly?


Old Joe

 2008/12/29 9:32
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Old_Joe,



I don't think you have answered much of anything. What I do think is that the characteristics of your words and actions here are to gender more questions and disputes.


You are full of questions Old_Joe.


You might consider asking yourself, if you are in danger of playing games with God's people, and playing God.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/29 9:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Old_Joe,



I don't think you have answered much of anything. What I do think is that the characteristics of your words and actions here are to gender more questions and disputes.


You are full of questions Old_Joe.


You might consider asking yourself, if you are in danger of playing games with God's people, and playing God.




Full of questions???? I do believe that I only asked you one question personally, compared to your 10 or so. It was a simple question really, I will ask it one last time, and because you seem to be afraid to answer, it will be an open question to anyone.

When Paul says that "Christ died for the ungodly", are you ungodly?


Old Joe

 2008/12/29 9:56





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