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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Greenock Conference - Was it irrelevent?

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 Re:

Philologos, I was blessed by your response!
The essence of your post is how I felt when I read Whispering's comments... God can meet people wherever they are and whomever they are with. Our God is Great beyond words could ever express and He is able to do above and beyond all that we could ever imagine.
I was blessed by the Greenock Revival Conference... the fact that there were people there who had made the sacrifice to travel the distance, with family, without family and join united in our determined effort to see God's outpouring in the thirsty land around us, to hear the depth, urgency and the vigour of the preaching~ in the call to surrender our ALL to the One who surrendered His life for us, to attend the prayer meetings (My heart bleeds to see more prayer meetings in the church today!) and to meet with others with the heart of evangelism, revived my heart from one of despondancy! Personally, for me, there may not have been a 'revival' in Greenock, such as the ones which have gone before, but my heart and vision were revived! I joined with many who were there with a resounding, do what you will, Lord, to use me as a clean vessel for your glory and Your name's sake. Amen!

 2008/12/18 7:06
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:

Ron B: "Lord, what am I doing here?'

Answer: Can you love these people?

Ron B: Yes, Lord

Answer: Do you want to be a blessing to them?

Ron B: Yes, Lord.

Answer: That's how I feel.




Hello Ron, could you share more what happened after that? What was the practical result of this conversation? How did you express God's love to these people, and how you was a blessing to them?

Thank you.

 2008/12/18 7:32Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The [u]good folks[/u] a Greenock will not reach this generation. Cannot reach their own generation, and would be happier in a past generation, which is dead.



I want to return for a moment to this point. I simply cannot agree with it at all. When I arrived in Greenock I had a house stay with a couple that I shall leave unnamed. Because of a little confusion [u]did[/u] not think their visitor was coming. However, I showed up after the Tuesday Night conference as a surprise to them. But they took me right in with amazing hospitality

I observed this couple with amazement. In my mind they are part of a remnant in Greenock that loves God and are making a difference. I was so blessed that I can hardly imagine. I found a remnant in Reading and again in Liverpool. Truly there is a remnant in the UK that seeks after God. I am reminded of the passage:

[color=000066]“A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth.” (Isa 53:3)[/color]

I did not sense a 'lukewarmness' in these certain local churches or with this family. I had a real sense of the presence of God. I live in the bible belt of America.I have been in a lot of churches and meetings. There are at least 5 churches within walking distance of my house. But God is at work at a different level in these places I visited in the UK.I come away tremendously encouraged.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/18 7:59Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Hello Ron, could you share more what happened after that? What was the practical result of this conversation? How did you express God's love to these people, and how you was a blessing to them?


As I recall there were about 12 nuns, 3 priests and about 10 'lay folk'. I preached what God had put on my heart and about three quarters of the way through, I suddenly realized what my topic was. It seems impossible to imagine it now but I found myself telling all these folks, priests, nuns and lay folk they God had always intended that they 'should be priests' with unhindered access dependent on no man.

I am sure that if I had targeted the group with this topic I would have been tense and the hearers would have been defensive. But I continued without a strategy and quite oblivious to the implications of what I was preaching.

They were very warm towards me and some of the nuns, in particular, said they had never thought about such things. The priests seemed comfortable with it all. They seemed encouraged.

As regards the long term 'results' I have no way of knowing what happened to any of these folks. I never visited them again and this story is now 35 years old!! I work on the principal that I am not called to be a strategist but simply a foot soldier. I don't have to have plans, or submit to premature progress reports... the day is coming when all things will be assessed. All I have to do is 'the next thing' and leave the consequences to the Strategist. It is a simply life... ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2008/12/18 9:09Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re:

Hi Brother...

Maybe our expectations of what "revival really is" aren't exactly set to the Biblical, non-theatrical standard? If I recall, Paul (that wonderful apostle) actually put one man to sleep (who fell out a window and died). Perhaps it would be good to learn what revival IS NOT before we create manmade definitions of what it IS.

"And Nathanael said unto him, '[i]Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth[/i]?'" - John 1:24


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Christopher

 2008/12/18 9:25Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: The Greenock Conference - Was it irrelevent?

Quote:
I am continually amazed at how we Christians can write our own press and believe it.



Including your own?;

"[i]In me, the root of this Scrooge like attitude is a spirit that is unthankful. Yes, a spirit of unthankfulness is the root cause of so many ills. Bitterness, depression, refracted vision, hate, anger and all the associated physical manifestations of a multitude of spiritual ills can trace their root cause to a lack of thankfulness.[/i]"


Got a feeling Enid is likely right here, neverthelesss;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14144&forum=13&post_id=&refresh=Go]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]

Both in general and regarding posting\promoting your website here. Your other consecutive postings will be locked.

Irrelevent ... An interesting choice of words.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10733&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/12/18 9:31Profile









 Re: The Greenock Conference - Was it irrelevent?

Hi Robert

I am not sure what "press," you are referring too? Can I ask you if you attended the prayer sessions each evening? I was running them and did not see you there, although this could be an oversight on my part.

I think that we are so used to having to deal with "Florida," type revivals that even if Greenock was the beginning of a movement then we would not recognize it because it , apparently was not instant. Do you know Robert, that Carter Conlon is coming back in the spring-time with his team from Time square church for an evangelistic outreach? He is doing this because he was so touched by the people that he met in the area and he also claimed that there was an "explosion," in his heart.

There was many spiritual battles fought in Greenock. If you missed the prayer sessions and other events that did not surround the actual event you would probably miss the bigger picture. Did you know that Denny Keneston preached in the heart of a housing scheme garthering attended by about 100 drug addicts. Did you know that many of the team of organizers met with alcholics and drug addicts on almost a daily basis for about two weeks in a place that ministers to them called the Haven? Carter Conlon also visited these guys.

Did you know that, although many of the organizers would be considered to be "conservative," that the event was organized locally by two Pentecostal men? Did you know that Satan was not happy that the best of Pentecostals and the best of conservative Christians were working together behind the scenes to come against his schemes. This was part of the battle, this was part of the walls that were coming down. This would pave the way for someone like Carter Conlon to come again and have an evagelistic outreach in a town notorious for crime and drugs.

In a Christian world where everthing is for sale, and people who call themselves ministers of the Gospel are constantly trying to sell books and tapes, there was nothing for sale in Greenock. No one was paid, if you came, whether speaker or simply attending, you came at your own cost. In fact the organizers took this so seriously that they would not even allow a charity to sell calenders outside the event because this event was not about money.

Did I agree with everything that I saw and heard at Greenock? Of course not(although I disagreed with very little) Was there Spiritual breakthroughs personally and corporately? Yes there was. In fact, on the final day, one of the most notorious sinners in Greenock, well known to the Greenock people, found herself standing outside of the Greenock town hall. She was brought in by a pastor from England who felt compelled by the Spirit to step outside and bring her in. She wept and wept as she asked for forgiveness of her sins and confessed the Lord Jesus. As one of the main organizers pondered on this later, he told me that the Lord spoke to him and said "more."

So, when Carter and his team return in the Spring, will we see more? Will we see people like this woman swept into the Kingdom? Yes I belive we will. If we do, it is because the Lord did a work through His people. Barriers were broken down, prayers were sent up, hearts were broken, tears were wept.

Can I ask you Robert, as an English minister of the Gospel, did you personaly break down barriers? Was your heart broken? Did you join with God's people nightly and send up your prayers? Did your tears join the tears of other saints. If not, then this may be the reason that you missed out on personal revival and being part of something bigger that yourself and your ministry. All revival starts with us. Revival is an encounter with the living God. May we all be revived and may we all be part of God's end time prayer warriors, doing battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places............brother Frank

 2008/12/18 9:32
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I work on the principal that I am not called to be a strategist but simply a foot soldier. I don't have to have plans, or submit to premature progress reports... the day is coming when all things will be assessed. All I have to do is 'the next thing' and leave the consequences to the Strategist. It is a simply life..



I really like this. Too often, (as I perceive) revival minded Christians tend to measure their life in Christ only by kairos moments: those special times in God when chronos time seems interrupted, cracked open, suspended to make room for treasured spiritual stirrings.

Yet measuring our richness in Christ and our fellowship towards one another, only by the treasure of kairos moments we are going to feel disappointed, because we are undervaluing the day by day coin of chronos time. If you really study the finer history of the church, not just the glorious testimonies, but the nook and cranny stuff, when she was healthy, she abided in Christ in both kairos and chronos time.

At least that is how I've learned to see discussions like this. I wasn't there in Scotland, but if all that happened was a time of rich Christian fellowship, it was still a rich time in Christ. There's nothing to despise about that.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/12/18 9:40Profile









 Re:

Hey bro

the press I am referring to is the 'utter tosh' I am reading ref God coming down at Greenock.

No I wasn't at the prayer meetings. (Am repenting as I write) I was praying elsewhere.

If you think Greenock was the beginning of a movement my brother, then you need your head examining.

I was there for Carter's message which I thought was spot on. However, he was so culturally irrelevant it wasn't true. His Pentecostal fervour at the end of his message showed his true background and his limp pogo-ing dance, well it just added silliness to what was a great message.

I am so glad that he is coming back in spring-time with his team from Time square church for an evangelistic outreach? Excellent. The drug addicts at haven are a captive audience that will greatly receive his message. I always find people in recovery to be open and learning the language of spirituality. No sarcasm here, I think that's great. I'd rather speak to addicts any day of the week.

As to 'There was many spiritual battles fought in Greenock. If you missed the prayer sessions and other events that did not surround the actual event you would probably miss the bigger picture.' Well bro, all I can do is sigh and say, regarding revival, GREENOCK is still untouched. Don't kid yourself.

Did you know that, although many of the organizers would be considered to be "conservative," that the event was organized locally by two Pentecostal men? well, yes I did. I became a Christian in Scotland through Aggies Weston's and was based 5 times just across the water in Helensborough. The meeting bore of the marks of the old fashioned holiness movements of the area. It's not new. It was irrelevant to the folks of that area some 25 years ago and remains so today.

Did you know that Satan was not happy that----- maybe. Though I cannot speak for him, my suspicion is that I don’t think he was overly concerned with what went on. Frank, did you know that the healing room in the main shopping centre is open 3 hours PER WEEK and is full of furniture got from the local dump?

There was nothing for sale in Greenock. No there wasn't. Not even a cup of tea. Were the speakers and crew catered for? They were? Why not the guests? A warm cup of tea would not have infringed on anyone’s holiness.

The event was not about money, and you could tell. Apart from the final collection towards costs. Which I think was a good thing. How much was raised.

Great news about the notorious sinner! Tell me more. How wonderful.

"'So, when Carter and his team return in the Spring, will we see more? Will we see people like this woman swept into the Kingdom? Yes I believe we will. If we do, it is because the Lord did a work through His people. Barriers were broken down, prayers were sent up, hearts were broken, and tears were wept. '" Good. This language is out of a puritan handbook from the 17 century. Did you know that? I am not a Todd Bentley fan, indeed I was at a very hairy meeting at God channel telling them just what I thought about old odd bentley- however guess what bro, at all of his meetings, and over the telephone and T.V. the Lord did a work through His people. Barriers were broken down, prayers were sent up, hearts were broken, and tears were wept.

As a British minister (Scots parents, Irish grandparents -born in England and on speaking terms with the Welsh - just) Though although the conference met the needs of a very small Christian constituency, My heart was broken at the overall irrelevance of the conference to the wider Christian community and to the world outside, and the may I say, to the very weird preaching. I am afraid I couldn't bring myself to pray with the old gang. Forgive me for that, only I have seen and heard all the old stylised weeping and pleading before. It just leaves me a little cold sometimes now. Sorry.

As for me, well, I am certain I battle with the devil daily. I am certain my motives are mixed, I am certain I am in need of constant revival. I am certain I need Jesus more. I am certain I need to be more full on for Jesus. I am certain the folks of Greenock were sincere. I am certain they excel me on so many plains and in so many ways. I am certain God will do good to us and even despite us. Yes and amen. Still, upon reflection and even so. I am also certain Greenock was a cultural irrelevancy.

 2008/12/18 10:16









 Re:

Regarding my 'undiscerned' spiritual pride..

sorry bro your wrong, I discern it quite clearly. In addition to that God has kicked me black and blue so many times over it, I have the marks to prove his dealings.

P.S. don't pull the old pride card then folks please..It's so boring.

P.P.S. I am a dreadful sinner saved by grace. You wont have to look too far for proof of that.

 2008/12/18 10:30





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