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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Law: pt #2

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Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797

 Re: Life that grows

I am often impressed by how threads weave together on this forum.

Mr. Sparks (The New Birth) and Mr. Pink (I have asked the Lord that I might Grow) are contributing right now to this conversation (see Devotional Thoughts and Atricles & Sermons Forum)if anyone is interested.

 2008/12/17 14:20Profile

Joined: 2008/1/27
Posts: 18


This subject stems from one of two wrong veiws.One that we are to do away with faith after the Spirit another to throw away the fruits and works because the flesh is weak. Both are of the flesh and the flesh needs to die.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The law is changed, not done away with we are saved because he kept the law and gave us a new one to follow to be born again (after death)
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent (only by the Spirit), and be baptized every one of you(die) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (eternal life).
A new heart.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The wages of sin is law.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The soul that sins must die.(law)

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end (goal) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
I'am not saying that we are under the law of Moses (the governmental regulation, because we didn't keep the ten). But before the law of Moses, there where laws given by the Father. We should hunger and thirst to keep them, if not why should we seek the kingdom where we will fully keep them.


 2008/12/21 2:11Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


When we walk in His Spirit we do not bow down and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet.

My next post will be the Ten Commandments in the New Testament...and they are there.

 2008/12/21 6:43Profile

Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77


Justification by Faith... It's a fundamental doctrine of Christianity, one which transcends denominational boundaries and unites the church catholic... it is also a doctrine with separates Christianity from every other religious system in the world. Other religions have their thou-shalt-not's and "laws" that must be observed or followed in order to find acceptance and justification before their gods. We must understand that our only justification is found in being born of the washing of regeneration and of the Spirit of God by grace through faith. It is found in the atoning work of Jesus and His righteousness, not ours. Salvation is the free gift of God.

I believe it is in Gal 3:2,3 that says, "I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing wih faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"

We are justified before God by grace through faith, not by our zeal or love for His law.

Having been justified by faith and born of His Spirit, we now live by the Spirit and have our minds set on the Spirit (Rom. 8) and yes..."faith without works is dead", but in the sense that if your life does not produce works as an evidence of the faith you've been justified by, then you've never been "in the faith" to begin with.

I'm scratching my head at some of the things that have been said in this thread, and I just want to make sure we're all on the same page in believing that we are justified by grace through faith, and works (our obedience to the Law) are a result or evidence of this justification and not the basis for it.

Buck Yates

 2008/12/21 7:03Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


Again, Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith." Without obedience there is no true faith.

"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

If we walk in His Spirit, He empowers us to obey His Word/His law. That is what "walking in His Spirit" is all about. The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. (LAWLESSNESS) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him.

BUT WHOSO KEEPETH HIS WORD, IN HIM VERILY IS THE LOVE OF GOD PERFECTED:(Again, His commandments and His Word) hereby we do know that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6.

And Jesus did not TRANSGRESS THE LAW - He did not sin.

 2008/12/21 7:51Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: The law of the Spirit

[b]Rom 8:1-9[/b] -

I. The apostle here beings with one signal privilege of true Christians, and describes the character of those to whom it belongs: [i]There is therefore now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus[/i], Rom_8:1. This is his triumph after that melancholy complaint and conflict in the foregoing chapter - sin remaining, disturbing, vexing, but, blessed be God, not ruining. The complaint he takes to himself, but humbly transfers the comfort with himself to all true believers, who are all interested in it.

1. It is the unspeakable privilege and comfort of all those that are in Christ Jesus that there is therefore now no condemnation to them. He does not say, “There is no accusation against them,” for this there is; but the accusation is thrown out, and the indictment quashed. He does not say, “There is nothing in them that deserves condemnation,” for this there is, and they see it, and own it, and mourn over it, and condemn themselves for it; but it shall not be their ruin. He does not say, “There is no cross, no affliction to them or no displeasure in the affliction,” for this there may be; but no condemnation. They may be chastened of the Lord, but not condemned with the world. Now this arises from their being in Christ Jesus; by virtue of their union with him through faith they are thus secured. They are in Christ Jesus, as in their city of refuge, and so are protected from the avenger of blood. He is their advocate, and brings them off. There is therefore [i]no condemnation[/i], because they are interested in the satisfaction that Christ by dying made to the law. In Christ, God does not only not condemn them, but is well pleased with them, Mat_17:5.

2. It is the undoubted character of all those who are so in Christ Jesus as to be freed from condemnation that [i]they walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit[/i]. Observe, The character is given from their walk, not from any one particular act, but from their course and way. And the great question is, What is the principle of the walk, the flesh or the spirit, the old or the new nature, corruption or grace? Which of these do we mind, for which of these doe we make provision, by which of these are we governed, which of these do we take part with?

II. This great truth, thus laid down, he illustrates in the following verses; and shows how we come by this great privilege, and how we may answer this character.

1. How we come by these privileges - the privilege of justification, that [i]there is no condemnation to us[/i] - the privilege of sanctification, that [i]we walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh[/i], which is no less our privilege than it is our duty. How comes it about?

(1.) The law could not do it, Rom_8:3. It could neither justify nor sanctify, neither free us from the guilt nor from the power of sin, having not the promises either of pardon or grace. The law made nothing perfect: [i]It was weak[/i]. Some attempt the law made towards these blessed ends, but, alas! it was weak, it could not accomplish them: yet that weakness was not through any defect in the law, but [i]through the flesh[/i], through the corruption of human nature, by which we became incapable either of being justified or sanctified by the law. We had become unable to keep the law, and, in case of failure, the law, as a covenant of works, made no provision, and so left us as it found us. Or understand it of the ceremonial law; that was a plaster not wide enough for the wound, it could never take away sin, Heb_10:4.

(2.) [i]The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus[/i] does it, Rom_8:2. The covenant of grace made with us in Christ is a treasury of merit and grace, and thence we receive pardon and a new nature, [i]are freed from the law of sin and death[/i], that is, both from the guilt and power of sin - from the course of the law, and the dominion of the flesh. We are under another covenant, another master, another husband, under the [i]law of the Spirit[/i], the law that gives the Spirit, spiritual life to qualify us for eternal. The foundation of this freedom is laid in Christ's undertaking for us, of which he speaks Rom_8:3, [i]God sending his own Son[/i]. Observe, When the law failed, God provided another method. Christ comes to do that which the law could not do. Moses brought the children of Israel to the borders of Canaan, and then died, and left them there; but Joshua did that which Moses could not do, and put them in possession of Canaan. Thus what the law could not do Christ did. The best exposition of this verse we have Heb_10:1-10. To make the sense of the words clear, which in our translation is a little intricate, we may read it thus, with a little transposition: - [i]God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and a sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh[/i], etc., Rom_8:4. Observe,

[1.] How Christ appeared: [i]In the likeness of sinful flesh[/i]. Not sinful, for he was holy, harmless, undefiled; but in the likeness of that flesh which was sinful. He took upon him that nature which was corrupt, though perfectly abstracted from the corruptions of it. His being circumcised, redeemed, baptized with John's baptism, bespeaks the likeness of sinful flesh. The bitings of the fiery serpents were cured by a serpent of brass, which had the shape, through free from the venom, of the serpents that bit them. It was great condescension that he who was God should be made in the likeness of flesh; but much greater that he who was holy should be made in the likeness of sinful flesh. [i]And for sin,[/i] - here the best Greek copies place the comma. God sent him, [i]en homoiōmati sarkos hamartias, kai peri hamartias - in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sacrifice for sin.[/i] The Septuagint call a sacrifice for sin no more than [i]peri hamartias - for sin[/i]; so Christ was a sacrifice; he was sent to be so, Heb_9:26.

[2.] What was done by this appearance of his: [i]Sin was condemned[/i], that is, God did therein more than ever manifest his hatred of sin; and not only so, but for all that are Christ's both the damning and the domineering power of sin is broken and taken out of the way. He that is condemned can neither accuse nor rule; his testimony is null, and his authority null. Thus by Christ is sin condemned; though it live and remain, its life in the saints is still but like that of a condemned malefactor. it was by the condemning of sin that death was disarmed, and the devil, who had the power of death, destroyed. The condemning of sin saved the sinner from condemnation. Christ was made sin for us (2Co_5:21), and, being so made, when he was condemned sin was condemned in the flesh of Christ, condemned in the human nature: So was sanctification made to divine justice, and way made for the salvation of the sinner.

[3.] The happy effect of this upon us (Rom_8:4): [i]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us[/i]. Both in our justification and in our sanctification, the righteousness of the law if fulfilled. A righteousness of satisfaction for the breach of the law is fulfilled by the imputation of Christ's complete and perfect righteousness, which answers the utmost demands of the law, as the mercy-seat was as long and as broad as the ark. A righteousness of obedience to the commands of the law is fulfilled in us, when by the Spirit the law of love is written upon the heart, and that love is the fulfilling of the law, Rom_13:10. Though the righteousness of the law is not fulfilled by us, yet, blessed be God, it is fulfilled in us; there is that to be found upon and in all true believers which answers the intention of the law. [i]Us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit[/i]. This is the description of all those that are interested in this privilege - they act from spiritual and not from carnal principles; as for others, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled upon them in their ruin. Now,

2. Observe how we may answer to this character, Rom_8:5, etc.

(1.) By looking to our minds. How may we know whether we are after the flesh or after the Spirit? By examining what we mind, the things of the flesh or the things of the spirit. Carnal pleasure, worldly profit and honour, the things of sense and time, are the things of the flesh, which unregenerate people mind. The favour of God, the welfare of the soul, the concerns of eternity, are the things of the Spirit, which those that are after the Spirit do mind. The man is as the mind is. The mind is the forge of thoughts. [i]As he thinketh in his heart, so is he[/i], Pro_23:7. Which way do the thoughts move with most pleasure? On what do they dwell with most satisfaction? The mind is the seat of wisdom. Which way go the projects and contrivances? whether are we more wise for the world or for our souls? [i]phronousi ta tēs sarkos - they savour the things of the flesh;[/i] so the word is rendered, Mat_16:23. It is a great matter what our savour is, what truths, what tidings, what comforts, we do most relish, and are most agreeable to us. Now, to caution us against this carnal-mindedness, he shows the great misery and malignity of it, and compares it with the unspeakable excellency and comfort of spiritual-mindedness.

[1.] It is death, Rom_8:6. It is spiritual death, the certain way to eternal death. It is the death of the soul; for it is its alienation from God, in union and communion with whom the life of the soul consists. A carnal soul is a dead soul, dead as a soul can die. [i]She that liveth in pleasure is dead[/i] (1Ti_5:6), not only dead in law as guilty, but dead in state as carnal. Death includes all misery; carnal souls are miserable souls. But to be [i]spiritually minded, phronēma tou pneumatos[/i] - a spiritual savour (the wisdom that is from above, a principle of grace) is [i]life and peace[/i]; it is the felicity and happiness of the soul. The life of the soul consists in its union with spiritual things by the mind. A sanctified soul is a living soul, and that life is peace; it is a very comfortable life. All the paths of spiritual wisdom are paths of peace. It is life and peace in the other world, as well as in this. Spiritual-mindedness is eternal life and peace begun, and an assuring earnest of the perfection of it.

[2.] It is enmity to God (Rom_8:7), and this is worse than the former. The former speaks the carnal sinner a dead man, which is bad; but this speaks him a devil of a man. It is not only an enemy, but enmity itself. It is not only the alienation of the soul from God, but the opposition of the soul against God; it rebels against his authority, thwarts his design, opposes his interest, spits in his face, spurns at his bowels. Can there be a greater enmity? An enemy may be reconciled, but enmity cannot. How should this humble us for and warn us against, carnal-mindedness! Shall we harbour and indulge that which is enmity to God our creator, owner, ruler, and benefactor? To prove this, he urges that [i]it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be[/i]. The holiness of the law of God, and the unholiness of the carnal mind, are as irreconcilable as light and darkness. The carnal man may, by the power of divine grace, be made subject to the law of God, but the [i]carnal mind[/i] never can; this must be broken and expelled. See how wretchedly the corrupt will of man is enslaved to sin; as far as the carnal mind prevails, there is no inclination to the law of God; therefore wherever there is a change wrought it is by the power of God's grace, not by the freedom of man's will. Hence he infers (Rom_8:8), [i]Those that are in the flesh cannot please God[/i]. Those that are in a carnal unregenerate state, under the reigning power of sin, cannot do the things that please God, wanting grace, the pleasing principle, and an interest in Christ, the pleasing Mediator. The very [i]sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination[/i], Pro_15:8. Pleasing God is our highest end, of which those that are in the flesh cannot but fall short; they cannot please him, nay, they cannot but displease him. We may know our state and character,

(2.) By enquiring whether we have the Spirit of God and Christ, or not (Rom_8:9): [i]You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit[/i]. This expresses states and conditions of the soul vastly different. All the saints have flesh and spirit in them; but to be in the flesh and to be in the Spirit are contrary. It denotes our being overcome and subdued by one of these principles. As we say, A man is [i]in love[/i], or [i]in drink[/i], that is, overcome by it. Now the great question is whether we are in the flesh or in the Spirit; and how may we come to know it? Why, by enquiring whether the Spirit of God dwell in us. The Spirit dwelling in us is the best evidence of our being in the Spirit, for the indwelling is mutual (1Jo_4:16): [i]Dwelleth in God, and God in him[/i]. The Spirit visits many that are unregenerate with his motions, which they resist and quench; but in all that are sanctified he dwells; there he resides and rules. He is there as a man at his own house, where he is constant and welcome, and has the dominion. Shall we put this question to our own hearts, Who dwells, who rules, who keeps house, here? Which interest has the ascendant? To this he subjoins a general rule of trial: [i]If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his[/i]. To be Christ's (that is, to be a Christian indeed, one of his children, his servants, his friends, in union with him) is a privilege and honour which many pretend to that have no part nor lot in the matter. None are his but those that have his Spirit; that is,

[1.] That are spirited as he was spirited-are meek, and lowly, and humble, and peaceable, and patient, and charitable, as he was. We cannot tread in his steps unless we have his spirit; the frame and disposition of our souls must be conformable to Christ's pattern.

[2.] That are actuated and guided by the Holy Spirit of God, as a sanctifier, teacher, and comforter. Having the Spirit of Christ is the same with having the Spirit of God to dwell in us. But those two come much to one; for all that are actuated by the Spirit of God as their rule are conformable to the spirit of Christ as their pattern. Now this description of the character of those to whom belongs this first privilege of freedom from condemnation is to be applied to all the other privileges that follow.

Matthew Henry
([i]Italics extant[/i])

Mike Balog

 2008/12/21 8:33Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


When we walk in His Spirit, we do not continue in sin.

"I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.


Jesus died to set us free from sin.

If we are crucified with Christ, we no longer sin, or, "transgress His law." 1 John 3:4.

 2008/12/21 8:48Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Law of the Spirit


A different tact ... recognize Matthew Henry is a bit long and would draw off many things from it. I still am wondering just what is your overall point? Why leave us guessing, can you not just be more forward and engage in some conversation?

Had attempted this elsewhere, comparing\contrasting;

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

[i]Cannot sin[/i] and [i]sin aginst[/i].

In other words, '[i]How can I do this thing? I [u]cannot[/u].[/i] Certainly one [i]could[/i] but the determination is that [i]I will not do this[/i], which would lead right into that counter argument of Paul's, [i]What then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid![/i].

What do you think? Fair contrast\comparisson?

The "Royal Law" comes to mind as well ...

Mike Balog

 2008/12/21 9:30Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation, UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14

 2008/12/21 9:36Profile

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