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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Galatians 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (NASB)


Ah well, if you WILL use these peculiar translations... :-)

This is the wonderful verb katargeO and should never have been translated as 'severed'. Check out [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2673&t=KJV]Strong's G2673 - katargeō[/url]

ergeO would mean 'to work'
if you put an 'a' in front of it it means 'to not work'
if you put the prefix 'kata' in front of it you add the sense of 'down' to the bottom or utterly.

hence katargeO is to render something utterly non-working, you might say 'neutralize'. Tracing the meaning of this word through the scriptures will give wonderful insights into all kinds of truths.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/12/12 15:10Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Ron,
Thank you for showing me how this works - and for the assignment! :-)

I just love learning new things.

 2008/12/12 15:22Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

HeartSong
>>>Just to clarify, did you pray and ask the Lord to show you the truth of the matter?

If I remember right I started praying and asking the Lord how to respond to the charges that were being made after it appeared they were not going to back down.

As far as me praying and asking God if I had a haughty, proud, or arrogant spirit, no I didn't pray and ask the Lord that.

I am very clear that I am not operating under that kind of a spirit at all.

I did re-read what I posted in a prayerful manner before the Lord with a heart to correct any thing no matter how small that I had done wrong.

These two moderators made a judgment call on a subjective area where they can't see my heart and perhaps they felt if they did what I did it would be from a haughty, proud, or arrogant spirit.

From what I can see the charges stem from nit picky things like me making a statement about the way I prefer to indent quotes, from my sharing with Robert a bit from my background of being a street person, and for me making statements like I take a Wesleyan position.

But I have grown to expect these kinds of things from Calvinists. If they think there heart is deceitful and desperately wicked according to Jer 17:9 you can't really blame them for expecting every one else heart to be the same way and even more so toward those that profess to have a pure heart by the grace of God.

For me it is just another chance to let Jesus shine and to display a Christ like spirit and not return charge for charge. And not only to do it on the outside but to have the love of God reigning and ruling in my heart.

While clearly I am unimpressed I can say though out the whole ordeal by the grace of God I had no malice or ill will toward either of them at all.

By the grace of God I have been made thick skinned.


_________________
Bob Mutch

 2008/12/12 15:38Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

RobertW
>>>and his rejection of Penal Substitution

Could you quote where I stated I rejected Penal Substitution please.


_________________
Bob Mutch

 2008/12/12 15:40Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

rbanks:
>>>I must say that I am praying for you Bob and the areas in your life and teachings that God's grace will be abounding toward you. I hope that you will learn from this and I pray God will help you not to become bitter toward your accusers. I hope that you will consider that we all need more grace.

Thank you. Well I am some what taken back but I am thankful I can report abounding grace for this tiny trial if I could even call it one.

I read a lot of Martyrs Mirror so is water off a ducks back.

At one time in my life I was very easily offended and it was an area in my life that I didn't apply myself and find the grace I needed in that area and it ending up being an area where I backslide and when out into the world. When God by his grace rescued me he showed me this was the a weakness that must go.

By God's grace I can say he has turned this from a weakness to a strength and I praise him for it.

Thank you for your concern and the Lord bless you also!


_________________
Bob Mutch

 2008/12/12 15:56Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Quote:
By the grace of God I have been made thick skinned.



Oh, now you made me laugh. You and Krispy should get along really well.

 2008/12/12 15:59Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

savannah:

Toplady was not long in his grave when John Wesley publicly asserted that "the account published concerning Mr. Toplady's death was a gross imposition on the public; that he had died in black despair, uttering the most horrible blasphemies, and that none of his friends were permitted to see him." Sir Richard Hill, a friend of Mr. Toplady's, and also the Rev. J. Gawkrodger publicly wrote John Wesley and accused him of vilifying the ashes and traducing the memory of the late Mr. Augustus Toplady," and affirming that "many respectable witnesses could testify that Mr. Toplady departed this life in the full triumph of faith." (Vol. I, pp. 121-128).
The report continues that a pious dissenting minister expostulated in a pamphlet with Mr. Wesley on his unjust assertions in the following words:
"Mr. Wesley and his confederates, to whom this letter is addressed, did not only persecute the late Mr. Toplady during his life, but even sprinkled his death-bed with abominable falsehood. It was given out, in most of Mr. Wesley's societies, both far and near, that the worthy man had recanted and disowned the doctrines of sovereign grace, which obliged him, though struggling with death, to appear in the pulpit emaciated as he was, and openly avow the doctrines he had preached, as the sole support of his departing spirit. Wretched must that cause be, which has need to be supported by such unmanly shifts, and seek for shelter under such disingenuous subterfuges. O! Mr. Wesley, answer for this conduct at the bar of the Supreme. Judge yourself and you shall not be judged. Dare you also to persuade your followers that Mr. Toplady actually died in despair! Fie upon sanctified slander! Fie! Fie!"

Have you checked both sides of this story to see if it was true or are you just believe it from the testimony of one side?

Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him.

After reading the supposed attacks on Fletcher I would be careful to check both sides on any of these reports.

Note: < div "padding:0 0 0 30px;text-align:left;">text< /div> works well.


_________________
Bob Mutch

 2008/12/12 16:07Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

HeartSong:
>>>By the grace of God I have been made thick skinned.

If you prefer me to state it another way I can do that.

By the grace of God when I suffer for doing well I am able to take it patiently as I know this is acceptable with God.



_________________
Bob Mutch

 2008/12/12 16:11Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
These two moderators made a judgment call on a subjective area where they can't see my heart and perhaps they felt if they did what I did it would be from a haughty, proud, or arrogant spirit.

From what I can see the charges stem from nit picky things like me making a statement about the way I prefer to indent quotes, from my sharing with Robert a bit from my background of being a street person, and for me making statements like I take a Wesleyan position.

But I have grown to expect these kinds of things from Calvinists.



Perhaps we were not blunt enough.

Bob, use the quote function.

Read the helpful link posted back a number of pages. It is practically impossible to figure out who has said what because you think you can waltz in here and do as you please. Enough.

Your attitude and conduct is haughty, proud, evasive, defensive, carnal and soulish. These are not insinuations of inferences nor mere observances, they are fact.

Your attitude screams "I will do as I please".

No, you will not. Not here.

It is a rebuke. Back off or move on.

To others ...


Enough of the Calvinism\Arminianism torture test people. It's neither, it's 'both' here, it has always been. For the sake of others and trust that we have been hearing from them. Can we please just stop for a season?

At least long enough for those entrusted with trying to mitigate all this to pray and try and craft up some kind of guiding principles for everyone to abide by?

It has gotten way, way out of hand.

This thread will be locked.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/12/12 16:29Profile





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