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bobmutch
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Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Looking for feedback: Free From Sin Teaching

From time to time I get accused of legalism, salvation by works, and holding the Gospel to high. I would love to get some feed back on this short article.


Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness... But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. -- Rom 6:18, 22

1) A person that desires to become a child of God must bring forth fruits to God that are consistent, worthy, keeping with, and befitting repentance (Mat 3:8). Fruits befitting repentance have no merit in becoming a child of God but are scriptural requirements.

2) A person must have godly sorrow (2Cor 7:10) for their sins and repent of their sins (Luk 13:3) to become a child of God. Sorrow and repentance have no merit in becoming a child of God but are scriptural requirements.

3) Repentance is a complete change in attitude toward your past sinful life and a commitment to completely change and reform your life by the power of God.

4) Becoming a child of God is by grace through faith and is not based on the merit of any works but is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

5) When by grace with godly sorrow and repentance through faith and you believe in your heart (Rom 10:9) on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus, and ask God for forgiveness of sins, and believe by faith God has forgiven you (1Joh 1:9; Act 4:12 1Pet 1:9), you are converted and have become a child of God.

6) Freedom from sin (Rom 6:18) is obtained at the moment a person becomes a child of God (1Joh 3:8).

7) The sin that a person is freed from is willful acts of sins of commission and omission (Jam 4:17).

8) In order for a child of God to maintain victory over sin, the flesh, and the world (1Joh 2:15, 16), they must abide in Christ (Joh 15:4-6), in prayer obtain grace to help in time of need (Heb 4:16), be diligence to add the fruits of the Spirit to their life (2Pet 1:4-10), humble themselves before God (1Pet 5:5), built up their faith through reading the Word of God (Rom 10:17), hunger and thirst after righteousness (Mat 5:6), work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Phi 2:12), and be led by the Spirit of God (Rom 8:14).

9) If at any point a Christian commits a willful sin they no longer have eternal life abiding in them (1Joh 3:15) and have become a child of the devil (1Joh 3:10).


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/8 11:45Profile
LoveGodsWay2
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Joined: 2008/10/9
Posts: 143
Ohio, USA

 Re: Looking for feedback: Free From Sin Teaching

Quote:
1) A person that desires to become a child of God much bring forth fruits to God that are consistent, worthy, keeping with, and befitting repentance (Mat 3:8). Fruits befitting repentance have no merit in becoming a child of God but are scriptural requirements.



I would change this to:

1) A person who has become a child of God [u]will[/u] bring forth fruits to God that are consistent, worthy, keeping with, and befitting repentance (Mat 7:15-23). Fruits befitting repentance have no merit in becoming a child of God but are scriptural requirements.

Quote:
9) If at any point a Christian commits a willful sin they no longer have eternal life abiding in them (1Joh 3:15) and have become a child of the devil (1Joh 3:10).



#9 - That does not seem correct. See 1 John 2:1-2.

 2008/12/8 12:41Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Looking for feedback: Free From Sin Teaching

Hi Bob,

This question may seem unrelated, but it will help me in understanding your position more.

Could you explain what happened on the cross? Who did Christ make propitiation for, and in what manner? Since Isaiah 53:6 seems to speak of individual's sins being laid upon him, I am wondering who those people are, and when/if Jesus took the punishment for those sins on the cross?

-- Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/12/8 14:02Profile
ANewInHim
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Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 54


 Re:



Thank you, TaylorOtwell I could not have said it better myself, even if I tried?

You can apply all of these scriptures and that is grand, but it is not until the word of God is rooted in you, that your life begins to change. It not until you understand the power (IN) the word of God that your sins are forgiven.


Quote:
3) Repentence is a complete change in attitude toward your past sinful life and a commitment to completely change and reform your life by the power of God.

 2008/12/8 14:24Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

LoveGodsWay2
>>>I would change this to:
1) A person that desires to become who has become a child of God must will bring forth fruits to God that are consistent, worthy, keeping with, and befitting repentance (Mat 3:8) (Mat 7:15-23). Fruits befitting repentance have no merit in becoming a child of God but are scriptural requirements.

I think you make a good point that I should have something about a faith that produces good works and I will add that.

How ever I would hold that the Bible teaches according to Mat 3:8 a person must bring forth fruits befitting repentance to be saved.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/8 14:36Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Looking for feedback: Free From Sin Teaching

bobmuch
I think some of your comments are putting the cart before the horse and show signs of the theology I sometimes call 'justification by sanctification'. This finally works its way out in your conclusion that a single willful sin reconstitutes someone as a child of the devil. How many times can a person dip in and out of the family of God. This is not a life lived in grace but a life lived on a tightrope.

I preach 'freedom from sin' but I find very few points of agreement with your version of things.


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Ron Bailey

 2008/12/8 14:48Profile
bobmutch
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Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

TaylorOtwell
>>>Could you explain what happened on the cross?

Christ made an atoning sacrificed for our sins and not ours only but for the sins of every person that is living, has lived, and will live. (1Joh 2:2).

>>>Who did Christ make propitiation for, and in what manner?

I noted above who the atoning sacrifice was for but I am not sure what you mean by "what manner"?

>>>Since Isaiah 53:6 seems to speak of individual's sins being laid upon him, I am wondering who those people are, and when/if Jesus took the punishment for those sins on the cross?

These people again would be not only us but every person that is living, has lived, and will live. I would hold that the Bible teaches he paid the price for all sins.


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/8 14:48Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

ANewInHim:
>>>You can apply all of these scriptures and that is grand, but it is not until the word of God is rooted in you, that your life begins to change. It not until you understand the power (IN) the word of God that your sins are forgiven.

I would hold your life changes when you are born again. 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

While I am not sure what you mean by "the word of God being rooted in you" but if you are holding that it is some period of time to learn the word before old things are passed away and all things are become new I would disagree with that.

I would hold that your sins are forgiven when you have met the new covenant conditions and accept by faith that God has saved you. I am not sure if "understanding the power in the word of God" is a condition of salvation. Did you have a scripture for that one.


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/8 14:54Profile
bobmutch
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Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

[b]philologos[/b]
>>>I think some of your comments are putting the cart before the horse and show signs of the theology I sometimes call 'justification by sanctification'.

If you feel that way like me ask you a couple of questions. Do you feel like a person needs to bring forth fruits meet for repentance according to Mat 3:8, needs to repent according to Luk 3:13, and needs to have godly sorrow according to 2Cor 7:10, to be saved?

>>>This finally works its way out in your conclusion that a single willful sin reconstitutes someone as a child of the devil.

I would base this on 1Joh 3:15 which says "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." It is my understanding that this is the standard Wesleyan-Arminian view point.

>>>How many times can a person dip in and out of the family of God. This is not a life lived in grace but a life lived on a tightrope.

Well a live of grace is not a life and sinning and repenting. Grace is my view is "grace to help in time of need" (Heb 4:16) some thing that makes an allowance for willful sins and repenting.

Living a live of obedience is not one of pleasure for his commandments are not grievous and it is the love of God that we keep his commandments.

I would say living a life of sinning and repenting is living a life on a tight rope never knowing when the Lord will call the whole world into judgment and if he comes on a bad day you would be lost.

>>>I preach 'freedom from sin' but I find very few points of agreement with your version of things.

So would you feel when Paul says in Romans 6 we are "made free from sin (vs16) that is experimental? The Greek verb that is translated made is in the past tense (aorist).


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/8 15:24Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Hi Bob,

Thank you for your response.

In light of your response, could you explain how a person whom Jesus has propitiated (historically and eternally, on the cross) for could become a child of the devil, as you suggest in point 9 of your post?

Thanks,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/12/8 16:06Profile





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