Sulphur Springs, Texas
What is the importance of Christmas and is there much of a point in celebrating it?
*I am not asking because I don't, i just want to know because of the many stories I've heard of many in history refusing to celebrate it.*
Maximino Cosme II
| 2008/12/6 22:55||Profile|
North Central Florida
| Re: Christmas|
Glad you brought it up. We do not celebrate it, it is not Scriptural and is too closely connected to the Roman Catholic Church and Paganism.
Santa is detestable to me, along with the sentimentalization that goes with that worldly holiday.
Here's hoping someone who is more articulate than myself will speak forth on the subject. I have researched it and read some very clarifying pieces.
| 2008/12/6 23:07||Profile|
Sulphur Springs, Texas
So, what does it have to do with Roman Catholicism?
ps. Santa is also detestable to me; an omniscient being other than Him? yea...
Thank you for your reply.
Maximino Cosme II
| 2008/12/6 23:14||Profile|
| Re: Cristes Maesse|
"The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ."" (World Book Encyclopedia)
"On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong in Rome." (New Catholic Encyclopedia)
The "Mass" in Roman Catholicism is 'the supreme act of worship'. "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass...The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." (Catholic Encyclopedia)
"The myth of Mithra formed the origin of the cult of Mithraism, which flourished in the Roman Empire and was for a time the chief rival of Christianity.... One of be most well known festivals of ancient Rome was the saturnalia, a winter festival celebrated from December 17-24. Because it was a time of wild merry making and domestic celebra6ons, businesses, schools, and law Courts were closed so that the public could feast, dance, gamble, and generally enjoy itself to the fullest. December 25, the birthday of Mithra, the Iranian god of light and the contract and the day devoted to the invincible sun, as well as the day after the Saturnalia, was adopted by the church as Christmas, the nativity of Christ, to counteract the effects of these festivals." (Encyclopedia Britannica)
Elves,mistletoe,ivy,yule are all associated with the occultic practices of the Nordic and Druid pagans. The pagan winter equinox festival of Saturnalia, characterized by merriment, evergreen trees, and exchanges of gifts, were all incorporated into the Christ-Mass celebration of Roman Catholicism.
This Mass-acre of Christ on the altars of Rome and around the world by their priests is where this abomination began to be adopted by the professing church and those religious men plagued by so many superstitious practices.
And so this ceremony of the marriage of paganism with Romanism has borne its bad fruit to this present day among so many.
Sadly, many of God's own have fallen for this lie that God is neutral insofar as their participation in heathen holi-days.
As the world demands, "I want my MTV", so others who ought to know better demand, "I want my christmas".
Just another commonality between the world and the professing church not being discerned in the Light of His Holiness which we are also called to.
2 Cor. 6:14-18 And be ye not yoke-fellows with them that believe not: for what fellowship hath righteousness with iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? or what concord hath the Messiah with Satan? or what part hath a believer with an unbeliever? or what agreement hath the temple of God with that of demons? For ye are the temple of the living God; as it is said, I will dwell among them, and walk among them, and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore, come ye out from among them, and be ye separate from them, saith the Lord; and come not near the unclean thing, and I will receive you; and will be to you a Father, and ye shall be sons and daughters to me, saith the Lord Almighty.
"On a high and lofty mountain you have set your bed, and there you went up to offer sacrifice.
Behind the door and the doorpost you have set up your memorial; for, deserting me, you have uncovered your bed, you have gone up to it, you have made it wide; and you have made a covenant for yourself with them, you have loved their bed, you have looked on nakedness." (Isa. 57:7-8)
One commentator writes,
Superstitious persons commit fornication with their idols, because, by forsaking the simplicity of the word, they violate the bond of that holy marriage into which God has entered with them, and prostitute themselves to Satan. But now Isaiah intended to express something more; for, when he says that they set up their bed on a lofty place, he means that they are not at all ashamed of their shameful conduct. As a harlot, who has lost all shame, dreads not the sight of men, and cares not about her reputation, so they openly and shamefully committed fornication in a lofty and conspicuous place. He compares altars and groves to beds on which that accursed crime is committed, and he compares men who sacrifice on them to impudent and abandoned harlots...They imagined, indeed, that in doing so they were rendering obedience to God; but the Lord rejects all that men contrive according to their own pleasure, and abhors that licentiousness."
| 2008/12/7 0:53||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Christmas|
If you are new to SermonIndex this has become something of annual rite of it's own ...
That is, that a whole range of opinion is expressed and too often it is that which constitutes strife.
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8498&forum=35]~ Christmas Links at SermonIndex ~[/url]
This is a somewhat older post with what was up to that point current. If you do a search of this site you will find a great deal more.
For what it's worth, many of us here recognize the correlations, understand the issues and still choose to celebrate this special time of the year. For many it is very fond memories of childhood and love of family, for others it is that very lack. Others are convinced of the origins and any observance whatsoever is _______.
There is really no getting around the fact that it means completely different things to different people, even many of the men of God who are appealed to on this site, long since gone from this earth celebrated Christmas, recognized the errors and extravagances but either had a fondness of - or at least a tolerance of those who differed.
I anticipated this and have given some thought to it as usual. One of the things that jumped up in my thoughts in this anticipation was the focus on [i]Pagan[/i]. What it means, what it meant then and what it is understood to be now. My thoughts were that it seems it is Christmas that gets this lofty title\aberration practically alone. All throughout the year hardly a notice of a mention. The strange thing about it, taken to it's excess is that it could be applied to just about everything. You drive a Pagan car on Pagan roads. Fill it up at a Pagan gas station, drive to the Pagan grocery store and load it with food. You stop at a Pagan stop light, past all the pagan stores and come Monday morning you will drive your Pagan car to your Pagan place of employment ...
Trust that we have heard every conceivable argument and then some, weighed every practical concern, understood the Catholic Church history ad nasuem
I am midstream reading a very good article from Lampert Dolphin talking about the times we are living in and with out saying so much in the same words, the very destruction of the family in our time. Here is bit;
[i]Sex, Marriage, Family
Back in the '40s divorce in America was very rare�about 8% as I recall. Now it is 50% even among Christians (http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html). As a boy I took it for granted that one simply did not divorce for any reason, even if one had to live with a difficult marriage. Parents had to stick it out for the duration, if only for the well-being of the kids. I remember when divorced men were shunned by prospective employers!�
Marriage vows are covenants (solemn promises by the parties involved), and God takes covenants very seriously. Where would we be, or instance, if Jesus Christ annulled his marriage plans with us, His church�for good cause?�
But ours is no longer a covenant keeping society. We have been unfaithful in our vows to God and so we also do not keep our promises and commitments. �
One of the rationalizations for easy divorce in recent decades has been the claim that our children would be better off if their unhappy parents parted company. Now, however, it's clear that divorce is very damaging, and permanently so, to children of any age.�
No one us has a God-given right to pursue his or her personal dreams and ambitions at the expense of home and family. But our life-style norms in this country are now quite the opposite of what God asks of us. The model Jesus gave us is one of integrity and faithfulness in all we do, of self-giving love, dying to our own selfishness, and sacrificially giving ourselves to the well-being of others.�
Consequences? Countless men and women in the younger generation are growing up now with no positive examples of a good marriage for them to imitate. (Most animals throw their offspring out of the nest a short season after birth, but human boys and girls need nearly two decades of nurturing and training). Children need role models of how a man or a woman is supposed to live in a world under God. Functioning parents and quality family life forms the fabric of society.
In the '40s sexual immorality was very rare, gays were still in the closet. Adultery was scandalous, sex before marriage was unthinkable. Now? Starting in Middle School, children are taught that they need to find their own personal sexual preferences. They should begin to be exploring their sexuality as soon as possible, says the teacher. Sexually abstinent virgins of either sex are now ridiculed as weird and dysfunctional--from junior high school and up.
A slick magazine from Stanford, which came to me this summer, contained an article by one of the deans at the University who noted that Stanford students were cohabitating regularly. She said that "hook ups" were now common on campus. I had to ask someone. Hook Ups, I learned, are brief sexual encounters arranged on the spot--one-time-only sexual encounters with a partial stranger of either sex. Then I learned that there was now a whole new generation of younger homosexuals (aged 16-25) who find it emotionally "safer" and easier to go for same sex partnerships rather than trying for a more demanding marriage relationship, especially when there is not much support coming from parents on both sides. �
Without good role models for manhood and womanhood, and with generally poor models of what marriage is suppose to look like, living temporarily with a girl friend (or a boyfriend) seems the best way to live for many in the younger set today. Like marriage, "the church" is also widely believed to be an archaic, irrelevant institution having nothing important to say to the next generation.[/i]
I think we have far more serious problems facing us and if Christmas is that which means drawing a family together in spite of, in contradiction to where society is heading - If it is [i]at the least[/i] a consideration of any of what it all means at it's core ...
If you are one who has strong convictions otherwise, it is understood. I just do not know that there is much necessity in trying to convince anyone else here, I would not attempt the conversion either.
[i]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[/i] Rom 14:4-6
| 2008/12/7 1:33||Profile|
It was November 26th, two years ago, that the Lord got a hold of me. I remember, that first Christmas, being horrified by the holiday and the things that surrounded me.
The frazzled insanity of the people, the foolish and wicked music, the silly lights and the endless advertising.
Just the previous year, I had put up at least eight christmas trees and had decorated every window on three floors of my house - and just to top it all off, I had found a way to attach a large bright star to the peak of the roof by reaching out of the attic window. My house is on a hill and the star could be seen from a great distance. I also had a large collection of christmas music, as I had been adding to it for many years.
But suddenly, all of it made no sense - and had become an offense.
I tried listening to the music, but found myself skipping from one song to the next as the meaning behind the lyrics became clear. On the classic songs, the background music and noise drowned out the meaning of the words. By the third album I quit trying to find anything acceptable.
I tried to send out christmas cards, but could not even get past the thought of it.
Everywhere I looked there were lights - all of that effort, and for what? It was as if they were mocking God - I tried to look away, but couldn't, because they were everywhere.
I remember being very miserable because no one could figure out what was "wrong" with me - and I was at a loss as to how to explain it.
How do you tell others that they are mocking the very Person that they are supposedly celebrating?
EDIT: After reading the post by crsschk, I would like to state that each man must do as the Lord directs. What I have written is what He has put upon my heart. Last year I sent out cards that I made myself after praying for direction as to what they would contain. This year I plan to do the same.
2nd EDIT: After reading what MrBillPro said, I would also like to state that it was not another Christian making me feel guilty that changed my view on Christmas - it was the Lord - and He did not change my view - He changed my heart.
| 2008/12/7 1:52||Profile|
My best advise is just enjoy it as you feel lead and please don't let others influence you one way or the other. We enjoy it just as the many generations of my family have, we exchange gifts and have all the family over for food and fellowship, some watch football games and some set at the dining table and drink coffee and chat and the children either play games or go outdoors and have fun, this is what were going to do. We all also as we always do thank God for the many Blessings he has provided us and the Blessing of having us all still here for another Christmas together. I don't mean to sound harsh, but personally I really don't care how others feel about how we personally celebrate our family Christmas together and never have, but I also do respect others and the way they celebrate or don't celebrate. I have finally overcome one of the toughest things I have ever overcome in my life in the past few years, and that is not to let Christians or anyone else make me feel guilty about the way my family celebrates Holidays. Great lyrics to a song I heard once.
I wanna live, live and let live
I want all the love this life has to give
I wanna smile and be friendly with you
I wanna live and let you live some too
| 2008/12/7 2:28||Profile|
Sulphur Springs, Texas
thank you all for your replies. I have read each of them carefully. I only made this thread to see what the Scriptures said about it, and after posting it I realized that I have never read anything about it. I'll pray about it and see what He will have me do.
Thank you all for your replies,
Maximino Cosme II
| 2008/12/7 6:45||Profile|
HeartSong, I use this holiday as you do, one to freely express the salvation of the Lord through homemade cards.
I have long been grieved by the christian embracing of a holiday that makes many despondant and suicidal. I buried my own brother on Christmas Eve. Something doesn't quite make sense if a supposedly godly holiday causes these sorts of reactions. Brother Paul West already stated that he and his wife don't look forward to this time of year because of the phone calls he receives.(he is a mortician)
I have not sternly walked away from all aspects of this holiday. I join my unsaved family and saved as well in whatever their convictions are. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
I just attempt to utilize the gospel of Jesus wherever and whenever the doors are open.
Hope this helps.
| 2008/12/7 9:21||Profile|
Brother Paul West already stated that he and his wife don't look forward to this time of year because of the phone calls he receives.(he is a mortician)
Although this can be a depressing time for many...and a time where certain believers begin to come out of the woodwork and decry the alleged paganism and wicked inception of Christmas, there are those who are not effected by all the hooplah, just like there were those believers that Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 8 who could eat meat sacrificed to idols and not freak out (Paul was one of them); eating meat or not eating meat doesn't bring you any closer to God, and choosing to celebrate Christmas and exchanging gifts or choosing not to celebrate the holiday commends us not in any way either. There are those who esteem all days to be the same, and if I and my family choose to acknowledge one day as the notional birth of the Messiah and give thanks to God by song and felicity in heart, we do it as unto the Lord, and it should be of no judgmental concern to anyone - except, of course, to those who are weak.
Whether we eat or drink or sing or celebrate Christmas or Easter we do all things to the Lord - and not to man - and we are not to judge the other's weaker or stronger conviction, for God is able to make both the weaker [i]and[/i] and the stronger stand. The weaker brother or sister will cry: "Pagan custom! Abomination!"; the more mature will with a clear conscience sing "Silent Night and Hark! the Harold Angels Sing" and thank God in his heart that Jesus Christ was sent into the world to reconcile sinful man to God - regardless if that day was on Dec. 25, or April 16 or July 4.
Paul Frederick West
| 2008/12/7 9:40||Profile|