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brother Paul West writes......." I don't trust your definition of "anointing" as I believe you juxtapose soul with spirit."
This is a classic statement psalm and you would do well to study what he is talking about. Right here in this sentence is where the line is drawn. I wrote a piece recently called "What fire has this younger generation aquired?" Please read it psalm and tell me what you think. There is a whole generation who are totaly convinced that they are moving in the Spirit when in actual fact they are moving in the soulish realm. There are no Scriptures for what these guys do, and there is an abundence of Scriptures describing "encounters with the living God."............Frank
| 2008/12/19 21:35|
| Re: |
"If the enemy can get Christians to seek after experiences, then he surely can deceive them. The reason why many moves of God have been sidetracked is because Christians have gone after the manifestations, and it became all about what makes me feel good. The presence of God was compared to a drug high, and it was even encouraged by some of the leaders to seek after being drunk in the Spirit.
I have seen that Christians that seek after these experiences are some of the most carnally minded people that you will ever meet, and are not growing spiritually."
Wow you can actually read people's heart like that?
Faith justifies man before God, but actions justify a man's faith before men. To look at what one both says and does is meant to give us as men a facsimile of the condition that person's faith is in (the heart). By looking at actions and listening to words we are to make right judgments of the condition of the faith of men. When one cannot do this properly it merely makes them an abomination before God.
Prov 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Note: One is an abomination if they condemn a just man, OR if they justify a wicked man. It is wise to be very careful who you refer to as a brother in Christ and who you consider Christ's enemy.
| 2008/12/20 10:19|
| Re: The line between soul and spirit:|
[u]PaulWest wrote[/u]: "I don't trust your definition of "anointing" as I believe you juxtapose soul with spirit."
[u]Appolus wrote[/u]: "This is a classic statement psalm and you would do well to study what he is talking about. [b][u]Right here in this sentence is where the line is drawn"[/u][/b].
Heb 4:12 - For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing [b]even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit[/b], and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
1 Cor. 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
We must distinguish these two operations very clearly, for this is of the utmost importance. None can work satisfactorily if he is confused on this point. Let me repeat: the soul is itself truly alive, but it cannot make others to live. The spirit, on the other hand, is not only itself living but in addition gives life to others. This is why I state with such emphasis that we must lay down our soul power. All that is of the soul is of no avail. We are not quarreling over terminologies, for this is too great a principle. Although the soul is alive, it has no way to make others live. Hence in helping people, we should aim at the depth of their beings instead of merely aiding their minds. We must not work according to psychic force, since it can neither save nor profit anyone. How very careful we need to be. How we must deny whatever comes out of the soul. For it not only cannot help people, it also hinders God's work. It offends God as well as deprives Him of His glory. From Watchman Nee, [b]The Latent Power of the Soul[/b]
If it helps in understanding this Nee writes, with respect to praising the use/effect of singing/music: "Should a person live casually for six days and then come to God one day, he should instead feel guilty and reprove himself. How then is it that the singing makes him feel warm and joyful? This cannot be spiritual power. I do not wish to be a narrow critic, but it must be pointed out that too much singing does excite soul power." Watchman Nee, [b]The Latent Power of the Soul[/b] (He points out similar dangers of expressing the latent power of the soul in studying/preaching the Bible.)
Do I need to say I am not lifting up Mr. Nee?
Do I need to say I am not inviting discussion of music?
| 2008/12/20 12:26||Profile|
| Re: |
The Youtube clips were interesting and while I wouldn't say that they sit particularly comfortably with me I thought the second one (when they are talking in their kitchen) was encouraging as they clearly had a focus on making the reality of Jesus Christ relevant to a sub culture that defines "good" through experience and more often than not that experience is found through drug use. I would assume that sits outside many people's experience and context on this site but then we need to accept the importance of contextualisation in presenting our faith today - we live in a post modern age and as Christians we need to recognise that mindset flows through every aspect of our culture today - shutting our eyes and bemoaning that will not make it go away - a large focus in presenting our faith is that it needs to be in a manner that is true to God's word but also in a manner that is relevant. As painful as it may be launching into a Spurgeon style sermon might not work to a particular group. Paul took quite a pragmatic view in such things - whether through adapting his preaching in Athens to be culturally relevant or accepting that even if others were preaching out of selfish ambition then if Christ was still preached and people come to know him then Hallelujah! It is good to have different people come to our church's from time to time to expound the Gospel in a manner that may be very different from what they are used to - although the rub is in ensuring that the message is in line with God's Word says - it's a difficult balance to get right as we are very good at tying God's Word to our own cultural preferences...
| 2008/12/21 12:06||Profile|
| Re: Soul and Spirit|
However on reflection I thought the comment made by an earlier poster about Christians thinking they are operating through God's Spirit but are in fact being led by their soulish nature (that's a paraphrase) was spot on. It is a huge problem in my church where there are many young people who are doing this very thing and thinking that they are doing the right thing. How do we as leaders or experienced Christians guide them so that the Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit guides them and not their emotions...??
| 2008/12/21 15:54||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi Lonny...I think this is one of major problems facing the church today. I wrote this post a while back .....
The solution lies in people spending just one moment before the throne of God. Just one second in His presence and they will never again mistake a soulish experience for a genuine encounter with God. To stand in the light of God, and be totally transparent and for the light of God to penetrate every particle of your being is something that truly defies description. The English language, in al of its beauty, is at a loss to describe this. The mighty prophet of God cries out "Woe is me, for I am a man undone." Now this sounds like a negative thing, but of course it is not, it is a penetrating thing. To come to this place we must pass the alter, and the alter is a place of sacrifice. Too long has the Church leaders called out "come forward and be blessed, come forward and get healed, come forward and be prayed for, come forward and get something. You dont get anything from the alter, you bring something, its a place of sacrifice. So, unless the Church as a whole understands this, they are destined to stay out in the courtyards and not enter into(past the alter) the inner sanctum. The courtyard is Cain's court, this is the place where most of the soulish activity of the church takes place. Its not a bad thing if it leads you to the alter, but more often than not, it leads you deeper into the soul. These are some articles that give an understanding of the presence of God I believe.........
| 2008/12/21 16:47|
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I don't typically recommend Derek Prince's writings and sermons, but he did a helpful message series called "Protection from Deception.' You can do a search and find the audio on his site. The one I particularly recommend is called, [b]Earthly, Soulish, Demonic.[/b] It is well worth a careful listen.
Robert Wurtz II
| 2008/12/21 19:06||Profile|
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Appolus, Robert W
Many thanks - some useful thoughts there.
| 2008/12/22 10:27||Profile|