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murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Who on Sermon Index speaks in Tounges

Out of interest who on Sermon Index speaks in tounges?????????????


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Colin Murray

 2008/11/29 8:33Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: Who on Sermon Index speaks in Tounges

Quote:
murrcolr wrote:
Out of interest who on Sermon Index speaks in tongues?


[edited]I pray in tongues more than I speak in tongues but I've come to the conclusion it isn't about "speaking in tongues" per se. What good are the gifts of the spirit if God's people doesn't have fruit of the Spirit?

but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self–control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.
Galatians 5.22-25

The church definitely needs the power to heal but I say it needs the power to LOVE abundantly more than it needs to work miracles!

Colin, what earthly or eternal good are the gifts of the Spirit if God's people can't be known by the fruit of the Spirit? Sadly, the church is more known by the fruits of the flesh instead of the Fruit of the Spirit. [edit: this is especially true among so-called tongue talkers and if you are honest, you know it to be true as well. If speaking in tongues was our end-of-all-problems, we should be clean as a whistle but it's not true.]

I ask this because Jesus said the ONE thing, the one thing that we would know false prophets and teachers by is their fruit, He did not mention their gifts. [He did mention gifts in Matthew 7.22-23]

Ephesians 5.8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9) for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, 10) proving what is well pleasing to the Lord.

This shows that it's the Fruit of the Spirit in us that proves what is well pleasing to the Lord! Amen? And not gifts.

To me the question should be, who here has the fruit of love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness and self-control? What evidence do you have?

;-) :-) ;-)

God bless, Colin!!


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Lisa

 2008/11/29 12:52Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Thanks for your answer.

Do I love God with all my heart, do I love people like I love myself. Do I have any bitterness, am I slow to anger like God is slow to anger. Do I have any pride, do I forget about an evil done or do I hold a grudge.

The fruits of the spirit or pretending to have the fruits of the spirit, trying to be Godly in my own strengh or truly being Godly. Having a form of Godliness but deny God's power.

Can God do more for this sinful man than just justify me or do I have to wait until death until I am free from this sinful nature. Can death be my deliverer?

Who then can set me free from this inclination to sin?

These are some of the questions I have in my head. But for the time being I would like to know about anyone on here who talks in tounges or as you prefer prays in tounges.


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Colin Murray

 2008/11/29 13:32Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: some thoughts

Hi everyone,


I think that it should be appearant to us that the Church needs exaclty what God is or is willing to give to it, in exactly the same measure as He would give it.


The same Spirit that produces the fruit of holiness also divides to every man as He will, gifts, for the eddification of the body and for the furtherance of the Gospel.



Our denunciations of others who lack gifts as being less spiritual are obnoxious and our claims to superior piety over those that lack fruits in as abundant measure as ourselves are obnoxious.


Holy living is as much needed among those that count it sport to riot in the day as supernatural power and demonstration is needed among those held captive under supernatural powers of darkness.


The Apostle Paul considered it as much right to remind the Thessalonians of their(the Apostles) holy and unblamable example among them as he did to declare to the Romans how he had fully preached the Gospel through mighty signs and wonders by the power of the Spirit of God.



Let us therefore not cover over with piety any secret or hidden disdain for anything that God has given and let us not hide a lack of holiness with proud or boastful demonstrations of power that we seek.


But let us seek to have compassion on the multitudes in all the same ways the Master did. In healing, and in teaching, in power, and in words, and let us be fully convinced [b]that if it is of God, it is all of love[/b].







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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/11/29 13:33Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
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 Re:

I think the best way to know if someone exercises the true, genuine gift of glossolalia is if they don't like to talk about it, or preach messages about it, or defend it, or insinuate a debate on it. Paul was an exception (none of the other apostles mentioned how they spoke tongues), and this was because Paul's was a didactic discourse to an erring church. Just the same, those with the genuine gifts of healing - they just heal - and they don't preach about it. Those with the true gift of prophesy cringe when others refer to them as "prophets" because, secretly, inwardly, they know their detestable worth.

Those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit (with or without the evidence of tongues) may give a testimony - but they don't make it a preaching fetish, defend it constantly, substantiate it, deliberate it. Those who work true miracles of God, work miracles by the Spirit without a trumpet or video camera. Those who evangelize masses in the spirit of charity and authority of God make sure the left doesn't know what the right does, and you never hear of their amazing success unless an eye-witness writes about it.

This post may have gotten off the subject, but somehow I feld led to share it. It is linked in an odd way to what is being asked in this thread.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/29 13:50Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
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 Re:

Well put, Brother Paul...

When I first met the Lord, I used to watch Benny Hinn on occasion. I always had a bit of hesitation about his rantings about divine healing. Of course, I do believe that God heals...and can do so through men. Yet I used to wonder why men supposedly gifted with "the gift of healing" did not visit hospitals. Why don't all of those who boast about "raising the dead" go to where the dead are?

The Lord has done many, many amazing things in my life. In addition, I have seen some incredible things -- things that I don't feel the need to write about. What is the outcome of such descriptions? Is it to increase the faith of others in order to bring others closer to the Lord? Does it cause men to stop "testing everything" (I Thess. 5:21) and accept the claims of others "hook, line and sinker?" Or does it simply set those who boast in such things upon a pedestal of great "spirituality?" It seems to me that the outcome is almost always the latter.

As to the question about tongues: I speak with tongues. Yet my experience is so different from what I usually hear preached in Churches. I shiver when I hear pastors exhort their congregation to "pray aloud in tongues" -- as if it were something that could be controlled. Usually, you hear a bunch of people repeating the same ol' "shundai shundai shundai" phrases over and over again. My experience is very different, almost entirely personal, and deeply impacting. Sometimes, I am simply reading a passage of Scripture, praying for a person, hearing a story about someone who is lost or hurting, worshipping, or just reflecting on the things of God (and even when I was asleep)...when all of a sudden I become overwhelmed with tears and a language that I do not know. I am extremely logical and realize that this is not of myself (or out of a desire to speak in tongues). It is also not something that I can turn on and off like a light switch. I can repeat the words that I have heard myself say before...but it is not a new "bilingual" state where I speak a language whenever I want without ever knowing what I say.

I think that there are many, many people who claim to be "baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues" who are not. I don't know what would cause someone to think that they are...or to claim that they are. I have asked some people who claimed to be...and then were worried about "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" based upon the notion that they were lying about it. I asked them why they "faked" it, and they usually have told me that they thought that they "might" have been...but were simply repeating the expressions of others when in the Church (so no one would question their spirituality). I guess this might be the same reason that so many people get "slain in the Spirit" each Sunday WITHOUT having truly been "knocked down" by God.

Anyway, there are far more pressing needs than a discussion of WHO speaks in tongues. I think that it is undeniable that tongues existed in the Scriptures. I also think that it is a stretch for some to claim that it "ceased" at any given time in history (especially since that is a slanted interpretation of Scriptures that appear to be taken out of context, namely I Corinthians 13). If someone truly wants to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, I suggest that they do NOT place the emphasis on tongues (or any of the gifts). Rather, I would place my emphasis on simply wanting to know Christ more...and becoming a more effective witness of His goodness to a lost and dying world.


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Christopher

 2008/11/29 14:36Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:

Those with the true gift of prophesy cringe when others refer to them as "prophets" because, secretly, inwardly, they know their detestable worth.



Is this my destiny to feel useless and unworthy all my life. There has to be more than this in my Christian walk there must be I don't want to be a whitewashed tomb clean on the outside and stinking filthy on the inside. Will only death set me free from this body of sinfullness can death be my deliverer. Will God sanctifify me fully entirely or will I be a unclean man all my days.

Is it wrong to ask such a question who speaks with tounges what is wrong with it, does it break the guidelines of posting. Is it true that because I ask about talking in tounges that means that when I do it's false? Does it mean that as I have started a debate about tounges that the tounges I use are false.

I talk in tounges this happened before I even went to church. As I lay there in my bed totally fed up with they way my life was going I ask God to change me. A wind came in the room and blew into my stomach, after this I started talking in tounges.

I asked this question on this post because I want to find out the general type of people that are on this website. As I find that those who attack this gift are religious (have a form of godliness but deny the power) and would want to stop any talk of such things. Have you ever heard anyone saying this "tounges are of the devil"

Thats terrible and very grieving indeed.

Maybe I should start a thread where is Jesus in your life and see what is the response.


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Colin Murray

 2008/11/29 15:21Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
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 Re: An Inside Glance

Quote:
I don't know what would cause someone to think that they are...


I do :)

Allow me, brother. This might upset a few readers, though it is not my perogative to upset anyone. I used to be deeply entrenched in the charismatic movement. I was credentialed at one time with AG and preached at their rallies and at high-energy Pentecostal youth revivals.

Most everything in these circles is generated by excitement, energy, soul-power. Music plays a tremendous role. People are walked-through the process for wanting "to receive the Holy Spirit", by first raising their hands (usually after a time of having heads bowed down and eyes closed). A minister who ostensibly has the gift of "transferring the anointing of the Holy Ghost" to others will coach you what to do, what to think about, and how to mouth the syllables. If it's in a formal setting - like the Holy Spirit Baptism workshop held anually at Southwestern Assemblies of God University - you all come up and form a line and the minister goes from person to person laying hands on your head and encouraging you to speak whatever gibberish comes to mind.

Sometimes they'll have a worship singer leading with a keyboard or something. Ideally, though, you want to have a drum beat - because a repetitious drumbeat is a very powerful tool for stirring the soul. The people are told to just "let go" and focus on Jesus, worship Jesus, imagine He is there on stage and He has a free gift for you, that you don't have to earn it - it's His delight to baptize you and He's ready right now!

The mantra music is increasing in volume and when the minsiter reaches you, He puts a hand on your head and one on your shoulder while a catcher/helper usually gets behind you. He starts going off in a mix of tongues and English (basically the soulish equivalent of Spanglish), and you're encouraged to lift your hands and cry out to God for the baptism. If it's taking too long and you haven't started speaking in tongues yet, the minister will move on after encouraging you to "keep seeking" the blessing.

The atmosphere is incredibly hot by now, and it's tense and loud. The worship leader, by this time, is usually speaking in tongues himself and has gone off into "the spirit" and it's a very infectious thing. Many people slip into the groove at this point, raise their hands, and timidly begin to release and try to speak anything that comes to mind. The slightest peep of an unintelligent syllable is avidly welcome, and the person is enthusiatically coached to just repeat it, over and over and over. The dignity guard finally comes down, the euphoric beat of music and corporate soulishness melts the final barrier away, and the syllables finally flow forth, strung together with more confidence. Pretty soon the person is rambling and shouting "tongues" with a sense of surrender and ease. As you make the syllables, you imagine them going up as a heavenly language to God that God is able to decipher them.

According to Pentecostal tradition, if this has happened, the person is offically "baptized in the Holy Spirit" and not until then. It's total nonsense and deception. In some cases, the baptisms that take place at these conventions may be genuine, but I propose that the vast majority of them are clever counterfeits of soul and a conjuction of emotion and an intense pressure of excitement and expectation to manifest the desired result.

After the service, those who "spoke in tongues" are encouraged to practice their new gift daily as a prayer language. I say it often: it is like the "sinner's prayer", only mach II. Brethren, this is why we have so many in the church ostensibly baptized in the Holy Ghost and yet completely and utterly powerless. It was Ravenhill's lament, and this is how many of them happen. Just like in salvation, the confession was wrought by forumlaic means, by soul and not Spirit. Soulwork is merely lots of fancy lights and sounds; fireworks and bangs and flashes and explosions...but after it's over, all that's left is a vanishing curtain of translucent smoke.

But anything worught in the spirit by the Spirit remains and grows, transforms, brings fruit and is backed by God's authority that engenders intense self-deprecation, holiness, humility, long-suffering and charity.


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/29 15:46Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
There has to be more than this in my Christian walk there must be I don't want to be a whitewashed tomb clean on the outside and stinking filthy on the inside.


You will always be stinking and filthy on the inside, because you cannot improve your flesh. The cleanliness God seeks is Christ's.


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/29 16:02Profile
flameoffire
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Joined: 2008/1/3
Posts: 189
Michigan

 Re:

Many of the arguments or debates on these type of threads upset me. It seems that the impersonal setting encourages people to argue. At any rate I believe that we all have a flesh that will not be redeemed and pure until death. However, I believe God can and does purify hearts according to James 4:8-10 and other verses. Ravenhill also believed this and has a number of sermons about acquiring a pure heart. I understand Paul West's concern over certain Charismatic/Pentecostal customs, and I agree that the presence of spiritual gifts will speak for itself. People shouldn't go around spouting about their gift of prophecy etc. I would say this not necessarily because we all have impure hearts, but rather because we all have sinned and fallen short and the gifts and callings of God do not make us more or less holy. A pastor is not necessarily any holier than anyone else just because of their calling. Anyway, my hope is to kind of bridge the debate so to speak. I understand where both sides are coming from, but I believe that inside I can be holy and pure despite fleshly desires which will always be impure until the redemption of this body (1 Corinthians 15).

I speak in tongues. I was raised charismatic, but I fell away. When I was born again I didn't want to rely on my parent's faith so I tested everything. I didn't try to speak in tongues. I told God that if it was real than I really wanted it. One day I was walking and praying to God under my breath. The presence of God was thick and I realized I was speaking in tongues. I stopped out of surprise (I was in public) but God told me that he gave me the gift and it bubbled out of me under my breath along with a holy joy. I agree with the previous post that I don't turn the gift on and off like a faucet but that God stirs it up in me, but I also stir it up on occasion.


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Jonathan

 2008/11/29 16:35Profile





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