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passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 642


 Re:

I think someone has to give the definition of sin first.

 2008/11/20 23:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Could you please explain what David meant when he said he was "shapen in iniquity"? Psalm 51:5.
He says this as something different from his conception.


Please first explain who it was that "shaped" or formed David in his mothers womb.

Quote:
Furthermore, your assertation destroys the beatiful contrast between imputed sin from Adam and imputed righteousness from Christ in Romans 5.


Paul is hard (not impossible) to understand but what do you think of this? If you can have guilt because of an anscestor's sin then can you also be saved through an anscestor's faith?

Quote:
Can you show me one toddler that doesn't throw a fit if they don't get what they want?


Is that your requirement? Maybe there are some. Even so, Jesus does not reject toddlers. God is just and not evil. Unless your parents are perfect, being a toddler is probably like trying to fly an airplane with no lessons. It's not wickedness when you need the instructor to bail you out of a stall.

Quote:
Also, I say it with respect, can you explain why infants die in light of death being the wages of sin?


What are wages?

 2008/11/21 1:08









 Re:

Quote:
by passerby on 2008/11/20 23:54:47
I think someone has to give the definition of sin first.

good call, that about sums it up right there. 1 John 3:4

SIN
IS
LAWLESSNESS

 2008/11/21 2:56
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 642


 Re:

Quote:
good call, that about sums it up right there. 1 John 3:4 SIN IS LAWLESSNESS



To avoid confusion with Rom 4:15 which says "for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression", I will use KJV:

Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But while sin is not imputed when there is no law, sin was in the world:

Rom 5:13 for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin is not only limited to violation of the decalogue, sin in the broad sense is an act that is in violation of the moral characteristics of God.

Rom 2:14 For, when nations that have not a law, by nature may do the things of the law, these not having a law--to themselves are a law;

Rom 2:15 who do shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also witnessing with them, and between one another the thoughts accusing or else defending,

Rom 2:16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my good news, through Jesus Christ.

A sinful act can be an indulgence of thought:

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery;

Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.








 2008/11/21 4:14Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Paul is hard (not impossible) to understand but what do you think of this? If you can have guilt because of an anscestor's sin then can you also be saved through an anscestor's faith?



Your quote makes it seem like the opposite of sin is faith. I would suggest the opposite of sin and sinfulness is righteousness.

So, yes. As Adam's sin is imputed to his descendants through physical birth, likewise, Christ's righteousness is imputed to his descendants through spiritual birth. That's the gospel, and that's the teaching of Romans 5.

However, since Pelagians deny the gospel of our Lord, they do not accept such a statement, and the god of this world has blinded their minds so that they cannot accept the truth about themselves or about God.

~Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/11/21 8:54Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: can you prove sin nature?

Quote:
Does anyone believe they can show me directly from scripture and reasoning



You fool. How ignorant and arrogant can you be?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/11/21 9:09Profile
theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

BenJoseph, since you think sin is not in the nature, I would ask why one must be born again? Why can he not simply be persuaded? Why must he be "begotten again"?

The moment before one has faith, he is certainly a natural man. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor 2:14) The use of the word 'natural' implies that by nature man sinfully rejects the gospel.

There are only two categories, natural and spiritual. Before one becomes a spiritual man he is a natural man, and so long as he is natural he receives none of the things of God as belonging to himself. Not only do the things of God seem foolish to the natural man, but he cannot know them. As Romans 1 says, "their foolish hearts were darkened." This darkness is one of sinfulness, 'darkness' , not mere ignorance.

Again, the moment before one has faith, he is certainly a carnal man. "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Romans 8:7-8) It was not just that he thinks the way of God by faith is foolish, but he is at enmity with God. He is fighting to be accepted by his own deeds, or to go on in sin without repentance. According to his relentless internal wickedness he would have gone on forever in enmity against God's way, because he "neither indeed can be" made submissive in his natural frame to God's law of faith.

How is it then that people ever place trust in Christ? Because in a single instant of time, yet understood in logical order, God transforms - regenerates - His elect in such a way that their lively souls are freed from sin to believe that the promises of salvation are not only for others, but to them, and by faith these promises are applied to the elect. Again, this is not successive in time, but logically regeneration proceeds faith.

 2008/11/21 11:02Profile
GodsFire
Member



Joined: 2008/11/4
Posts: 77


 Re:

No one needs proof of such a nature,

even without scripture, our thoughts, our intentions, even if they seem to be endearing or "nice", that in itself reflects the disgusting garbage that we are filled with....


The sin nature is revealed by the condition of man's depravity, man's ability to rebel, man's inability to offer anything either up to God or another human being, it conveys or reveals by itself just how disgusting we are from the womb, even babies....

We are born, even conceived in a condition of wanton-ness, never satisfied, always complaining, easily swayed or convinced by others, it is always easier in nature to be negative, to look at the bad, or to have to ward off evil that it is to be a proprietor of good.

Another piece of evidence that we are born with a sin nature, is that we do not KNOW GOD in any fashion, we are marred when we are conceieved...

Our nature is unlike God...

Think heavily on those things, and until we make time for adequate meditation as to the validity of such things, all of scripture will just seem common and mundane to our earthly and carnal nature.

But here also is what is important, Our conscience is filled with unrest, fear, and loneliness until we bottom out on all of our selfish resources, then we begin to see or discover need for the conscience to be eased or CLEARED, and cleared only through a bright and lovingkind atonement that is forever after Melchizadek's order. A high Priest that had to be priestly in His ability to satisfy our absolute need, of which we ourselves weren't able to ammend.

We have no ability to ammend our conscience or lives, a simple apology WILL NOT SUFFICE here! We have to know that we are Naturally and Fleshly the enemy of God's purpose, will, intents and mind.

Again, nothing needs to to be proven of this sort, I believe that if one meditates enough or spends time alone with God whether conscientiously or not will find out how far from the peaceful shores of God they are.

This is why we are LOST! Because we do not know until it has been revealed, and even then, the conscience must seek out the ultimate provision-maker, the rectifier, the justifier, and His name is none other that Yeshua, Jesus, the Christ, the Great YHWH robed, embodied, and incarnately in human flesh!

Do not stay in that thinking BenJoseph, else your conscience will get hotter and hotter until it shuts down, then it will become cold with savage unbelief ad confusion, of the which , God is not an author of.



With the utmost blessings toward my new family here at SI in Jesus,

The fire

 2008/11/21 11:05Profile
GodsFire
Member



Joined: 2008/11/4
Posts: 77


 Re:

WoooooW NElly,

Go easy Brother Moderator,

based upon what we have been through, I woudn't want you to be upset or agitated later on with how you handled the previous posting.....

Just a little gesture for you bro...
Don't let it get you hot like that.

Take care in Christ

 2008/11/21 11:08Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
BenJoseph, since you think sin is not in the nature, I would ask why one must be born again? Why can he not simply be persuaded? Why must he be "begotten again"?



Very well observed. I didn't think of this. Praise the Lord for the new birth!

Grace to you,
Taylor


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/11/21 11:10Profile





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