SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Hebrews 6:4-6

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re: we will be judged by every word. . . no matter jew or gentile.

Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

if you read verse 9 paul is hinting at the reality of true salvation of a believer and how a this would not happen to a believer. You have to read the book of hebrews in the context my friends.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This is talking of someone who is trying to be justified by the law and yes he was talking to the hebrews here. Why is at a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God without Christ, because they our trying to be justified by their own merit and by their own works and they our left as sinful men in front of a holy God who can have nothing to do with not even one of their sins. You all seem to talk as if that we can fall in and out of our salvation but if hebrews ch.6 was at all warning us of that you would not be able to come back in repentance. A true believer sins but our lord will bring them back even if through chastizement.

 2008/11/27 15:12Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

bible1985 wrote:
This is talking of someone who is trying to be justified by the law and yes he was talking to the hebrews here. Why is at a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God without Christ, because they our trying to be justified by their own merit and by their own works and they our left as sinful men in front of a holy God who can have nothing to do with not even one of their sins. You all seem to talk as if that we can fall in and out of our salvation but if hebrews ch.6 was at all warning us of that you would not be able to come back in repentance. A true believer sins but our lord will bring them back even if through chastizement.



I dont think people fall out of salvation, i do believe as you seem to also believe many turn back from the narrow road and leave the way of salvation.

and he is not talking about being saved by works, he is talking about [i]dead works[/i] and how repentance from these are in the foundation of the christian faith. Even as this is in the foundation, yet many have very little or even none knowledge what a dead work is.

and about a true believer sins, i am speaking as one who has sinned many times, one who has turned my back on God many times and pursued my own interest instead of Gods. But i can not let that hinder me from saying this statement is not from scripture, yes a true beliver can sin, even sin a "terrible" sin so to say, but scripture also says

Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

we dont [b]have[/b] to sin, you make it sound as it is something we have to do.

the letter of Hebrews also says this

Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted

there is help for those who are tempted, in this i have failed many times, instead of going to HIM who is able, and HIM who are more willing to aid me then i am in receiving his help. Instead i have tried fight it out on my own, and with sin as a result. But it dont [b]have[/b] to be so.

Hebrews also says this:

Heb 2:1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.


drift away from what? the answer is in the following verses

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,


to me it is crystal clear, but i am worried for my own sake, and others that say "it is for the hebrews"

if it is so, then is justified by faith only for the romans?

Hebrews also gives this warning

Heb 12:25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,
Heb 12:26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven."


once again I hope you would consider these things, not because i say them, but since they are found in scripture. I recommend reading the letter to the Hebrews in one sitting slowly and thoughtfully.

Grace and peace


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/11/27 16:08Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 640


 Re:

Hi, pardon please for putting some things unclear, I (and I think bible1985 also) certainly do not mean that the book of hebrews would not apply to us, it just seemed to me that the key to interpretation of these difficult verses would be its historical setting or the original intent of the author. While the epistle was physically addressed to believing jews, the message could apply also to non-believing jews and to us, into parallel situations in our time.

 2008/11/27 20:12Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Hebrews 4:1-16 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest,

""Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again,"" These are the fallen away ones.

Hebrews 6:1-9 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


In Christ and the Father's Rest: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/11/28 1:16Profile
int3grity
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 76


 Re:

If you keep reading on to verses 7-8 you will see it references and parallels JESUS' words in Matthew 7:16-19 about the cofessors of CHRIST who bear bad fruit being thrown into the fire. Compare those passages.

Then in Matthew 7:23 JESUS says, "I NEVER KNEW YOU" - in other words it is a reference to those who were not saved despite their profession ("Lord, Lord") of faith. now go back and keep reading the next verse, Hebrews 6:9- "we are confident of BETTER THINGS in your case-things that accompany SALVATION.

So it is clear that Hebrews 6:4-6 is a reference to false converts. Those who were ONCE (not are) enlightened, Tasted (not partaken of) the Heavenly gift, SHARED (by virtue of being in the fellowship of believers) in the Holy Spirit, TASTED the goodness of the Word and the powers of the coming age but not SAVED since if they were saved and then lost then CHRIST would have to be re-crucified in order to re-save them.

If Bible1985 is right in saying that this passage is a reference to Hebrew professors of faith in CHRIST that were trying to be justified by their works, then this would make sense considering the people who profess, "Lord, Lord" in Matthew 7:22 are appealing to their works righteousness when they ask, "did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name and perform many miracles?"


_________________
Ryan

 2008/11/28 1:49Profile
bible1985
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

amen and amen finally some brothers and sisters getting these verses intrpereted the right way. No offense to anyone but these interpretations of losing salvation especially in this verse is just plain wrong interpretation and not reading it through.

 2008/11/28 8:17Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

so if i get you right, only the verses that say we can not lose salvation are to us today, and the others to unsaved jews?

And for the passage in matt 7, you know the gospel of matthew was also written to jews?

I guess i will be one of those who God will say to on that final day "Son you took my scripture to serious and to literal"


can we apply the letter to the romans to us? since we are not romans?


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/11/28 9:56Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:
You all seem to talk as if that we can fall in and out of our salvation



Nope that's not what we believe and that's not what Christian's been saying through out this thread.



_________________
Jordan

 2008/11/28 12:09Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Hebrews 6:4-6

Since the early Christians believed that our continued faith and obedience are necessary for salvation, it naturally follows that they believed that a “saved” person could still end up being lost. For example, Irenaeus, the pupil of Polycarp, wrote, “Christ will not die again on behalf of those who now commit sin because death shall no more have dominion over Him…. Therefore we should not be puffed up…. But we should beware lest somehow, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins but rather be shut out from His kingdom” (Heb. 6:4-6)

David Bercot from [i]will the real heretic please stand up[/i]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/11/28 12:45Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

what i am trying to say , scripture says HE is able to save us to the utter most, and HE will finish what he started. I know you amen that, and so do I. But I will not neglect or turn away my eyes or mind from passages that are "disturbing". Some verses makes me sometimes go "Do I want a God like that?"

But scripture is scripture, we reason so much, and we cut and paste our bible as word document essay for a school project and select the verses [i]we[/i] like, and the ones we mention we do away with like "[i]that is for the unsaved hebrew people back in the day[/i]"

but not for me, since i am living in this age, when God is changed and [b]I[/b] am extra special, and God is going to deal with me in another way, I most certainly is not like the lasy servant, and I am not like the unforgiving man or that man or that warning or that one. No not me. I am only under these verses over here that makes me comfortable and feel good.

but if you are right, then we can through away all scripture, because not one single verse in the scriptures was written to gentile americans or swedish people 2000 years after.


Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye [i]diminish[/i] ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

[i]Keep it pure, and do not add to it; keep it entire, and do not diminish from it. Not in practice, so some: “You shall not add by committing the evil which the law forbids, nor diminish by omitting the good which the law requires.” Not in opinion, so others: “You shall not add your own inventions, as if the divine institutions were defective, nor introduce, much less impose, any rites of religious worship other than what God has appointed; nor shall you diminish, or set aside, any thing that is appointed, as needless or superfluous.” God's work is perfect, nothing can be put to it, nor taken from it, without making it the worse.[/i] MH


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/11/28 13:12Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy