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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Triunity (my slightly differing view/ understanding)

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I believe they had eternal fellowship as you have with you parts. You are intimately related to your arms and legs.



Arms and legs do not have consciousness. I would never say to my arms and legs, "Let us make ______ in our own image."


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/19 11:44Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 326


 Re:

Robert,

Quote:
A cursory search should confirm that the above is not true. It has become evident to me that no amount of evidence no matter how persuasive will alter your view. You then take the additional step of suggesting I am befuddled. At this point I am mainly concerned for those who may not have a firm grasp of the issues.


I have to disagree. I don't understand how you can suggest that I am an unreasonable person. I actually take a lot of care to be reasonable. As for suggesting that you are befuddled I say that generally to all who have posted in the sense that I believe I have corrected their posts. I say specifically to you though that you brought some questions to me and then I answered them and then you had nothing to say and so I figure that you have nothing else to say to prove that I was wrong. I am concerned for the truth as I am also concerned for those who are not mature in doctrine and I think that if you take this stance you should be able to bring proof. Name what I have not answered. It is not like I am just answering the answers I am giving are thorough, thoughtful, and scriptural.

 2008/11/19 11:50Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 326


 Re:

Robert,

Quote:
Arms and legs do not have consciousness.


This is only a partial analogy that should be obvious and apparent. You making this statement seems to me that this is the only argument that you have left. (not written in anymosity)

 2008/11/19 11:52Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

davidt wrote:
Logic,

Quote:
davidt wrote: Quote: Jesus is in the flesh glorified. The Holy Spirit is a spirit. The Father is Totaly other than, not a Spirit or in flesh. Yes I agree. I am not so sure about that last statement though.

What "last statement"?

When you said the Father is wholly other then and not a spirit. I say this because Scripture says that God is spirit. So I must say that the Father is spirit.

Scripture says that God is spirit.
Not is [b]A[/b] Spirit
There is a diference

Tell me:
If The Fathather is [b]A[/b] Spirit & the Holy spirit is [b]A[/b] Spirit also, wouldn't there be two Holy Spirits?
Therefore, I say the Father is totally other that flesh or spirit.

 2008/11/19 12:15Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Since when does towardsness mean fellowship. I am not saying that there is no relation between the 2. Is that the best verse you can come up with "not sarcastically"?


It is one of the fundamental expressions of the Godhead in the scripture. If you know of a verse which is more comprehensive please let me know. As regards 'towardsness' the word clearly implies that the relationship is not static but fluid. This is a dynamic relationship and not a spacial one.


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Ron Bailey

 2008/11/19 12:17Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I say specifically to you though that you brought some questions to me and then I answered them and then you had nothing to say and so I figure that you have nothing else to say to prove that I was wrong.



In the beginning Eloy[u]im[/u] created the Heavens and the earth.

Your answer to the pronoun question is unacceptable. When God said, "Let [u]us[/u] make man in [u]our[/u] image and in [u]our[/u] likeness," He was not talking to a unique equivalent of His arms and legs. Arms and legs do not have personal characteristics that allow for conscious and intelligent dialogue.

There are many personal pronouns also in John 16 concerning the Holy Spirit.



[color=000066]Howbeit when [u]he[/u], the Spirit of truth, is come, [u]he[/u] will guide you into all truth: for [u]he[/u] shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever [u]he[/u] shall hear, that shall [u]he[/u] speak: and [u]he[/u] will shew you things to come. [u]He[/u] shall glorify [u]me[/u]: for [u]he[/u] shall receive of [u]mine[/u], and shall shew it unto [u]you[/u]. All things that the Father hath are [i]mine[/i]: therefore said I, that [u]he[/u] shall take of [i]mine[/i], and shall shew it unto [u]you[/u].[/color]

These are all personal pronouns describing the Holy Spirit. If the 'I' and 'you' are understood to be persons how can one rationally think that 'He' is not a person?



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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/19 12:20Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Logic on 2008/11/19 17:15:47
Scripture says that God is spirit. Not is A Spirit There is a diference


There is no grammatical difference. Greek does not have a indefinite article. It is not possible to say 'a spirit' as distinct from 'spirit' in Greek.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/11/19 12:21Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
davidt on 2008/11/19 16:10:02
I believe distinct identity in the sense that there is distinction between the Word, Father, and Spirit just as my arm is different then my leg. But, I dont see this identity as being a distinct person.


my leg has no independent power of action. The Word always had a power of independent action. It was the Word's independence of action which puts the value into His willingness to be incarnated.

[color=0000FF] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Phil 2:5-8 NKJV [/color]

It was the Word who 'emptied himself' and 'took the form of a servant'. These were independent choices otherwise there is no virtue in the action.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2008/11/19 12:25Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
This is only a partial analogy that should be obvious and apparent. You making this statement seems to me that this is the only argument that you have left. (not written in anymosity)



Are you having fun?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/19 12:26Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 326


 Re:

Logic,

You stated that the Father was wholly other then. I said I am not sure about that because I think that the Father is spirit. So I was not able to separate Him from the Spirit. This is a hard thing and I have not really delved in this far. I dont really understand this fully. If the Father is wholly other then what is He? I know there is a bit of a difference but cant really clarify the specifics at this point.

 2008/11/19 12:35Profile





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