| Islam, EU, and European Christians?|
I know there are people on this forum from Europe. How come you never post about Islam? From what I hear Islam is taking over Europe. The largest Mosque is going to be built by Muslim's that have ties to fundamentalist's. If the EU merges with Turkey which they are planning on the majority of the population will be Muslim. There are Muslims gangs. The government is afraid to speak against them. The Muslims who have migrated over have children a lot faster then the norm and so will be the majority instead of the minority. Many are underground and covert in their faith and will come out when the time is right and when this happens many of the nominal liberal Muslims will see that the Quran actually teaches a Jihadic war. Do you have any testimonies about what it is like? Do you have any insights or comments on the subject? Are there any significant Christiam ministries over there that have emphasis in this area? If so, who are they? What is the mood? Is it regional? Has anyone had any success with Muslim's? Lastly, is Europe open to street preacher's? Specifically from the US. Can you openly speak to Muslim's in the open air? Is there freedom of speech? (this is not only to European's)
| 2008/11/15 9:07||Profile|
| Re: Europe, Islam, and Christian's?|
European society has embraced and welcomed Islam
because they have forgotten the ideals and values
of the Protestant reformers. The door to the gospel is still open; though you will have much
hostility and persecution to face proclaiming it!! Muslims can be reached because they believe
in Abraham as the forefather of faith, they believe Moses to be a great prophet, and they
also believe Christ to be Messiah; though they
think He is one of many. They are offended by
the cross; because they think God is weak if He
allowed His Son to die so cruelly!! They are
much like the Jews, their religion is making
vows and swearin oaths and keeping traditions
and rituals of the Q'uran.
Martin G. Smith
| 2008/11/15 10:35||Profile|
It seems that there are more Muslims then religious Jews nowadays. This could be because there are not that many Jews on the earth but I still think that the Muslim ration would win out. It seems specifically those of the Arab line that they are of Ishmael and therefore have a bit of the God of Abraham and so are therefore somewhat like Jews except they are kinda in opposition to them even religiously and this would probably be why. I knew of the Ishmael heritage before but it just clicked a bit for me on the Islam religous thing tying into Ishmael. I mean Islam didn't start til way down the line but this does seem plausible.
| 2008/11/15 10:46||Profile|
It is rather interesting and tragic - all the same time. Westerners in the recent past have encouraged couples to limit the size of their families. Many people complied and now sociologists are raising the alarm for the lack of children to sustain the 'world'. Many countries have negative population growth due to abortion. Some experts have suggested there will be very few black in times to come because they are decreasing in number due to AIDS and abortion; caucasians are decreasing due to the use of birth control and abortions. The segment of people who are growing are the Muslims who pay no heed to western critics for population control. The only other people I know who pay no attention to population control experts are conservative Christians.
| 2008/11/15 10:58||Profile|
Yes I agree. I think though also it is because people have left the vision of family to a certain extent. No one really sees the benefit and joy of having a large family. Historically the more the better it seemed at least Biblically. Also probably due to many women in the workplace.
| 2008/11/15 11:09||Profile|
| Re: Europe, Islam, and Christian's?|
Yes, Islam is growing in Europe.
I want to share some observations.
I have been to Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Iran, U.A.E, Morocco, Egypt and Malaysia. Islam has a firm grip on everything in society. There is a lot of hypocrisy, oppression and injustice, but I must say that I enjoyed the relative absence of filthy images. Women are degraded in society but at least they do not dregrade themselves by dressing up as sex objects as they do in the West.
Islam took only over when the church became corrupt and God had to take away their lampstand. An Armenian (not Arminian :)) Christian in Turkey told me that the Armenian Christians used to be the rich elite traders in Istanbul until the early 20th century. They incurred the envy of the less privelliged Moslem Turks and were expelled. Turkey was the cradle of the early Gentile church.
Recently I visited a museum in Kiev that had Eastern Orthodox, Buddhist and Islamic art on display in different rooms. I saw the brazen idolatry in the orthodox and buddhistic rooms. The Islamic art displayed no idols but only animals and geometric patterns. No wonder that the Muslims conquered many of these regions. I am in no way endorsing Islam, but I can clearly see that God uses Islam to bring jugdement on apostate Christianity.
We have done some street outreach to Muslims in the UK and I must say I had some very interesting discussions, some quite heated. They are often amazed when they meet Christians who really care about them and share the real good news with them. We saw one becoming a Christian. He changed his name from Mohammed to A.... and was disowned by his family in his home country.
For the time beeing, street preaching is allowed but God knows how long.
Muslims at times persecute and kill Christians or cause them to recant. A much greater threat to true Christianity is apostate Christinity. At least Muslims do not pretend to be Christians and do not preach another gospel.
| 2008/11/15 16:25||Profile|
what were you doing traveling to those places "I have wanted to do that for some time"?
I am just curious to keep up on the trends since I know things can shift pretty fast. And curious to know what level it is at and if it is basically a sure thing that the EU will be taken over.
I agree with you about apostate Christianity it is a big blasphemy.
So if you do know of any good ministries that deal with this let me know.
| 2008/11/15 17:11||Profile|
Here is a good book:
David Pawson: The Challenge of Islam to Christians,http://www.davidpawson.com/index.htm
Here is another resource
I would think that most ministries to Moslems are of low profile and informal.
| 2008/11/15 18:34||Profile|
| 2008/11/15 18:43||Profile|
| Re: Islam, EU, and European Christians?|
I lived in Luton England 2 years ago have now moved to Sweden. Luton has 30% muslims i and is very segregrated. I know of extrem groups there but i spoke to muslims at my workplace about Jesus and i found them to be very liberal and confused about their faith. As for Sweden Islam is a very small religion with no inpact but i have read David Pawsons book mentiond in this thread and its a different picture in the UK. I have to say that its sometimes a breth of fresch air to meet muslims who actually belive in judgement, a god, sin... in a godlees Europe that doesnt care or belive in anything.
I dont think streetpreachers would be a problem in Europe apart from some areas. Youre welcome to Sweden anyday. :-D
| 2008/11/17 5:22||Profile|