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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : America Asks For A King

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KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Indeed, the problem with any "ism" is that they are all godless cures for the woes in this world. In order to expose them and us for the things they are, houses built on sand, God allows corruption to soak through it all so as to bring it all down. The failure of one system vindicates another system, and vice verse. If an ideology is able to survive its own failure, it simply awaits the day in which its counterpart falls so that it can rise. It's like a teeter-toter. Back and forth, back and forth, up and down, up and down.


The church has tried in vain to exert its influence, the worlds way, and now we may be heading for a pendulum swing of ideology to the contrary side of the last terms.


Indeed, such things as "The Moral Majority" were fatally flawed.


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Jimmy H

 2008/11/3 12:06Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re: America Asks For A King

Quote:
Joe the Plumber’s exposure of Obama’s “spread the wealth” philosophy exploded like a flash fire, not only because that philosophy is utterly anti-American, but because it is shortsighted, and immoral.




What really is "immoral?"

Proverbs 28:8

"One who increases his possessions by usury and extortion gathers it for him who pity the poor."

If one really desires to see immorality according to the Scriptures what does this Scripture say?


The "economy" has been and still is based on "usury and extortion." The seeds of this corruption began in 1913. And now we see that the entire financial system is at the mercy of this Scripture.

The kings and princes have stopped creating wealth a long time ago. The largest export of this nation is "debt." Debt is a product of fianacial system based on usury and extortion.

And now we find that those who have created this system are now seeking to preserve their possessions. But we know that this endeavor is futile. We know that according to the Scripture above, their possessions that they gained by "usury and extortion" are gathering

"it for him who pity the poor."

The roaring twenties are like these days that we live in. There is nothing new under the sun. What has been before will be again.

Do not be swayed by the philosophies of this world. Read the Scripture.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/3 12:57Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
And now we find that those who have created this system are now seeking to preserve their possessions. But we know that this endeavor is futile. We know that according to the Scripture above, their possessions that they gained by "usury and extortion" are gathering

"it for him who pity the poor."



It is interesting how many Christians do not realize what scripture has to say about the way we do business in our times. When you look at Luke 3 when John Baptist came preaching repentance, in each case when he answered the question, "what shall we do"- each answer dealt with the persons attitude towards their possessions/money. This was the ax being laid at the 'root' of the tree. Can we imagine taking scripture seriously enough to actually share our possessions with those with [i]genuine[/i] needs and lend expecting nothing in return?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/3 13:04Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re:

As it was during Isaiah's time, so it is today...

Isa 1:23 Your princes [are] rebellious, And companions of thieves; Everyone loves bribes, And follows after rewards. They do not defend the fatherless, Nor does the cause of the widow come before them. Isa 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause [you] to err, And destroy the way of your paths."


Isa 3:13 The LORD stands up to plead, And stands to judge the people.


Isa 3:14 The LORD will enter into judgment With the elders of His people And His princes: "For you have eaten up the vineyard; The plunder of the poor [is] in your houses.


Isa 3:15 What do you mean by crushing My people And grinding the faces of the poor?" Says the Lord GOD of hosts.


Who are these princes of our day? How do they "who lead" us "cause" us "to err", "and destroy the way of your paths."


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/3 15:15Profile









 Re:

Jeff,

Remarkable observations. I have a question for you, though (or for anyone who can answer):

Proverbs 28:8
"One who increases his possessions by usury and extortion gathers it for him who pity the poor."

Now, in the verse it says that they increase their possessions by usury and extortion. I am assuming they did have real possessions which they then gathered "for him who pity the poor". How about the princes and usurers of our day though? When their possessions vanish in an instant because they are money created out of thin air and never had real value? How would others gather their possessions if their wealth vanishes like a vapor?

In Christ,
Slavyan

 2008/11/3 15:54
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re:

Brother Slavyan wrote:


Quote:
How about the princes and usurers of our day though? When their possessions vanish in an instant because they are money created out of thin air and never had real value?



The US spends $10,000,000,000.00 per month in sustaining the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just think about all the material, fuel, equipment, rations, electricity, wages, bribes, and medical care that is dispensed in that month.

Now add that amount for 9 months straight. Again imagine all that $90,000,000,000.00 buys in sweat and tears.

The US taxpayer just spent that same amount in one month trying to prevent AIG from going bankrupt. There is speculation now that this effort will fail. The money did not disappear into thin air. The money has been distributed to many different bank accounts all over the world. Those who have received this money are the same who are responsible for the implosion of our financial system. These same people are now spreading a lie. They say that it is immoral to "spread the wealth" around.

They are fearful of a democratically elected group of people who express the desires of those who elect them. They are fearful of populist doctrines which tax their wealth and seek to distribute their ill gotten gains amongst the poor.

The verse in Proverbs 28:8 explains this ongoing event in human history. First, the princes of this world have repeatedly created financial pyramid schemes in many different generations. This foolish and immoral scheming grind the faces of the poor. The result of this oppression brings a change of direction within the nation that has suffered such immorality. A most recent example of this occurred in the 1930s and 1940s. The New Deal Programs of Franklin Roosevelt did the same thing that Obama's programs will do in the future.

Solomon writes of these events in the book of Ecclesiastes 1:


9 That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which it may be said,
“See, this is new”?
It has already been in ancient times before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things,
Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come
By those who will come after.


The word of God is certain. The story that it tells of man's foolishness will be witnessed by all generations.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/3 19:55Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4790


 Re:

As a side note...

I am voting for Ron Paul tomorrow. I could not vote with a clean conscious for either of the leaders on the ballot. To me they remind me of a generation long ago...

Isaiah 3:
1 For behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts,
Takes away from Jerusalem and from Judah
The stock and the store,
The whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water;
2 The mighty man and the man of war,
The judge and the prophet,
And the diviner and the elder;
3 The captain of fifty and the honorable man,
The counselor and the skillful artisan,
And the expert enchanter.


4 “I will give children to be their princes,
And babes shall rule over them.


5 The people will be oppressed,
Every one by another and every one by his neighbor;
The child will be insolent toward the elder,
And the base toward the honorable.”


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/11/3 20:15Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Isn't there different groups in the bible called poor. I mean there seems to be a group that became poor because of their sinful choices.

Proverbs 23:21 (KJV) For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Pr 21:17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.

De 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

Pr 6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?

Pr 6:10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:

Pr 6:11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.

Pr 19:15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.

Pr 24:30 I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;

Pr 24:31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.

Pr 24:32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.

Pr 24:33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:

Pr 24:34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man.



Then there is this group of the poor that are in the favor of God.

James 2:5 (KJV) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Jas 1:9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:

Isa 14:32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

Isa 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Zec 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

Zec 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

Mt 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Lu 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Lu 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

Lu 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Lu 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Joh 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

 2008/11/3 23:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I think it is important to contrast a biblical view of 'poor' with our modern ideals. The New Testament view is that we should be content with food and clothing. That sounds very radical today as a person with food, clothing, automobile and shelter could still be esteemed as 'poor' if those particular items did not contain a certain level of fashion and sophistication. [i]Functionality[/i] is simply not enough in our times. This has happened in part because western society no longer purchase items based solely on necessity- but on other variables linked to perceptions they have about what owning that item may mean. This is much of what drives the money machine of popular culture.

This is also how Mammon has become the Dagon of our times. Some years ago the BBC did a special on this issue. Paul Mazer of Lehman Brothers is quoted as having said, "We must shift America from a 'needs' to a 'desires' culture, people must be trained to desire, to want new things even before the old has been completely consumed . We must shape a new mentality in America, man's desires must overshadow his needs." Big bankers funded what later became known as department stores and we were well on our way to Mammon and materialism. I think it is ironic that Lehman Bros. were key in helping get this mess in full swing and they are no more. Who knows?

I don't often recommend secular programs for believers, but there are two that have opened my eyes a bit to why America is so materialistic. One is called, "The Century of Self" (BBC) and the other is, "The Merchants of Cool" (PBS). They are real eye openers for those of us that have not lived long enough to watch this all play out over time. There are relatively very few poor in America if we strip our minds of this materialistic paradigm and ask ourselves whether these have food and clothing?

Our greatest poverty is our lack of [i]contentment[/i] that cultivates an unthankful spirit and robs us of the satisfaction of enjoying what we have- because of our lust for something newer and better.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/4 0:35Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I think it is important to contrast a biblical view of 'poor' with our modern ideals.



Quote:
There are relatively very few poor in America if we strip our minds of this materialistic paradigm and ask ourselves whether these have food and clothing?



Quote:
Our greatest poverty is our lack of contentment that cultivates an unthankful spirit and robs us of the satisfaction of enjoying what we have- because of our lust for something newer and better.



Well said.


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Mike Compton

 2008/11/4 0:43Profile





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