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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : America Asks For A King

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 Re: America Asks For A King

Quote:
It is staggeringly immoral to create an ever-larger class of dependent, helpless people who will be doomed to starve when the unsustainable system you have created collapses. And most of all, it is profoundly immoral to set yourself up as a secular messiah of sorts, assuring people that you will take care of them, eliminate hardship, heal the planet, and hold enemies at bay by the sheer force of your own hypnotic rhetoric.



I believe this is exactly what the last beast will want to do in order to make the people of the world receive its mark: put them in a place of total dependence upon their government, which, as the author states, will bring them down on their knees to ask that same government for deliverance when the system fails. Then people who have trusted in their leaders will have nowhere to turn to because the alternative to accepting the proposed "solutions" will be starvation and despair. Therefore, people will be prone to sacrifice their liberties for the promised "salvation" and "security". Of course, such a policy as Obama's is staggeringly immoral, but what can we expect from servants of Satan himself, from false messiahs? And the wicked will not understand anything, and will welcome the solutions. But those of understanding will instruct and help many.

What saddens me is that largely the church is so unprepared and a number of Christians who have, wittingly or not, made the government an idol will be brought on their knees at the end and thus depart from the faith, while others the Lord will chasten and deliver. I am not talking just about America here, but also about Bulgaria and the rest of the world.

Brother Mike made a good point:

Quote:
If you fail, the expectation is that someone is supposed to come bail you out. It seems it is charity in reverse, an abuse of what used to be a sense of responsibility. It seems to have permeated the entire culture and many Christan's have bought into the ideal.



It is so important that we are obedient to the voice of God that we may be used for His purposes in the serious times we live in. Perhaps it will be our correct response to suffering and trials which will prepare us for the times ahead.

 2008/11/2 3:50
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re: Which king?

I suppose we get what we deserve because it is taught to vote for the lesser of two evils. There is eight total candidates on the ballot. Shouldn't we vote our conscience? Instead of voting between two men? Won't change occur when we break party line and vote for the one who will best serve America, not what pop-culture and the media focus on. I regret that I failed in this, I voted and went for the lesser of two evils. I felt grieved after this. I didn't care for either main candidate. There was one man who I strongly considered to vote for, but new he wouldn't stand a chance. But isn't that how we should vote? What if we all take that attitude to the ballot, a cast our vote for the best man to serve. That would more than likely get these career politicians out of office, we would strike a cord in politics. Could you imagine a underdog winning, an independent!

Next thought, should we even vote? AS believers. I am for one going to consider this for next time I need to vote.

 2008/11/2 8:00Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I'm an independent, who typically votes "for the Republican of your choice" (my Dad's philosophy). But this year while I voted Republican most of the time, there were a couple times where I voted with the Libertarian party. I voted Bob Barr for President.

Will he win? Not a chance. As it is, the electoral college is made up of mostly (if not entirely) Democrats and Republicans, who are mostly going to vote along party lines as it is-- which leaves no room for a third party candidate to emerge victorious.

The issue is ultimately that of power. The two party system we have in place now swings in the favor of those in power staying in power. That's why a lot of Senators are able to make a life-long career out of being a Senator. A decent sized--but not quite large enough-- third-party candidate (like Ross Perot from back in the days of the first George Bush) also more-or-less furthers the two party system. For such a candidate always seems to undermine at least one of the parties from whose "base" they come. Thus, while many people are open to a third party, they ultimately look at a vote for a third party as "wasted," because when push comes to shove, failure to vote "for the lesser of two evils" results in what one deems to be the "greater evil" winning the election. Thus, had many of the Republicans voted for Bush instead of Parrot back in the 90's, it is possible Clinton never would've won office. As a result of his winning of office, a lot of laws and appointments were made that Republican-minded voters did not care for over the course of 8 years.

It's really all a sad state of affairs. I've said all this because I ultimately believe the Devil is very glad there are only two "powers" (politically speaking), for it is much easier to consolidate two powers into one power. For the Devil is intoxicated with power, and wants political "unity," through which he can ultimately rule as an arrogant oppressor. A one-party system, which tends to exist under socialist states-- and absolutely under communist ones-- allows him the most leverage to accomplish what he seeks to accomplish in history. Patriotism and nationalism then come together to make for a deification of the state. Alternative messiahs, instead of Jesus Christ (anti-Christ), thus become a very real possibility over night.

Sadly, the thing that is supposed to drive men to God, the "eternity established in their hearts," that God-sized question mark as it were, when it does not find its fulfillment in God still seeks its fulfillment just the same. The absolute dedication of some Obama supporters is almost without precedent here in America. I've literally heard people say that if Obama is elected, they'll not have to work and struggle to pay for this, that, and the other... rather... the State will simply take care of it. I've yet to come across anybody, though I'm sure they exist, who have such a "worshipful" spirit in regard to any of the other candidates. A "change" is most definitely coming.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/11/2 8:34Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


"A one-party system, which tends to exist under socialist states-- and absolutely under communist ones-- allows him the most leverage to accomplish what he seeks to accomplish in history.Patriotism and nationalism then come together to make for a deification of the state."




We had a missionary serving in China come make a presentation not too long ago. He spent some time speaking to us about the conditions in North korea. He indicated that the government there amounts to a form of religion and worship: of the deceased father and his son(who is the current leader) and of the spirit of the form of Communisim that they have in place. Voice of the Martyrs also had a section about North Korea in their latest Newsletter(October 2008). A striking illustration of what KingJimmy suggested there.





"A "change" is most definitely coming."



I was reading this week a somewhat lengthy article that I printed off the internet about a professing Muslim that was elected to an office in the US, and how he had made a point of using a Koran to take his oaths. The article gave some perspectives on this and a bit of history about our conflict with Islamic terrorism. The point was made of how the founders left the possibility of this open and left the decision of who should lead us, regardless of their ideological backgrounds to the voters. But those who are qouted in that regard also express doubt that anyone would ever become elected to high offices who were not Christians, unless, as one put it '...the people themselves be of the same opinion'.


The article is [url=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=384]here(Spring 2007 Newsletter of WallBuilders)[/url]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/11/2 10:20Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Chris,

All is well on my end at this time. Hope all is well with you and yours also.

Quote:
But, I'm not sure that because some white people identify themsevles with that same mentality in order to justify their own evil inclinations, that this means there are not genuine social and historical roots to the problems that black people have in our society.



Good point here and well taken. Sometimes I find a very destructive mindset that I cannot quite get my head around. I have seen it manifest in various ethnic groups and on various socio-economic levels. Truly I think the root of the problem is [i]selfishness[/i].

I'm thinking now of two young men, both white. One from a poorer background and one from a wealthier background. Both of these young men have been in and out of prison. The poorer young man I spoke to in 1994 in his cell headed back to the big house. He told me almost boastingly that he had 4 children all from different moms and while he was out on parole got a 5th woman pregnant. The second young man I know has 5 children by 4 different moms and is headed back to prison now in 2008.

What is going on in the minds of these people that refuse to take responsibility for these children and complain that the state would force them to support them? To me, it is selfishness of unprecedented proportions. To me, this is the greatest problem that exists right now here in our inner city and low income- drug infested areas. How do we see repentance on this most fundamental level?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/2 17:07Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Jimmy's: A "change" is most definitely coming.



[color=000066]This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. (Daniel 4:17)[/color]

I had the fortune of trying to remove a tree stump from a yard yesterday and thought how Nebuchadnezzar had been cut down by God and what the experience taught him. Having gone temporarily insane by the hand of God, eating grass like oxen, laid out in the field like a circus act- when his mind finally returned Nebuchadnezzar had a revelation:

[color=000066] And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me. Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase. (Daniel 4:34-37) [/color]



_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/11/2 17:24Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I am responsible for the short-sayings that are put up week after week at my church on the marquee in front of our building. This week, in light of all the political happenings going on, I offered this thought:

"Jesus: Change You Can Believe In"

:-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/11/2 22:46Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


We had a missionary serving in China come make a presentation not too long ago. He spent some time speaking to us about the conditions in North korea. He indicated that the government there amounts to a form of religion and worship: of the deceased father and his son(who is the current leader) and of the spirit of the form of Communisim that they have in place. Voice of the Martyrs also had a section about North Korea in their latest Newsletter(October 2008). A striking illustration of what KingJimmy suggested there.


Karl Marx once said that religion is the opiate of the masses, and was strongly against it. Yet it is very interesting that even though communist states are atheistic, they manage to produce a cult of the state. I think such is so telling of human nature and God's design. Fundamentally, we were created to worship. We are religious creatures by nature. Yet, even the sternest of atheists turn their hearts towards something and serve it.

Even in a Capitalist society such as we are (or used to be??), even the hardcore atheist bows before the almighty dollar. In a Socialist society, the hardcore atheist bows before the state. In a Capitalist society, since the dollar is worshiped, then we simply toss money at all our problems in an attempt to fix things. In a Socialist society, where the state is worshiped, another government program becomes the solution to everything, since after all, the government can fix everything.

Both systems, because of man's fallen nature, tend towards some form of idolatry. Man is designed to worship, and will worship something even if it is not God. Personally though, if I was able to choose which system I'd rather live amongst, I think I'd rather have everybody worshiping the almighty dollar than the state.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/11/2 23:06Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Ethics

[i]And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.[/i] Exo 32:1

Doesn't take long ... Great observation KJ, would add Robert's note of [i]selfishness[/i] as that 'something' if it is not God and is ultimately where even the money would be a lesser god.


Quote:
I'm an independent, who typically votes "for the Republican of your choice" (my Dad's philosophy). But this year while I voted Republican most of the time, there were a couple times where I voted with the Libertarian party. I voted Bob Barr for President.



:-)

Couldn't help smile at that, my father would add "Vote NO on everything" to the list of initiatives. Of course that's being sarcastic, found this year that the way these things can be written (which always leaves you with a sense of recognition that both sides are exaggerating the truth) a "YES" vote often means "NO" - Leave it alone, don't add more bloat to the debt, no you cannot redefine marriage, etc.

Quote:
Will he win? Not a chance. As it is, the electoral college is made up of mostly (if not entirely) Democrats and Republicans, who are mostly going to vote along party lines as it is-- which leaves no room for a third party candidate to emerge victorious.



Precisely and such is my disdain for politics as it now functions.

Quote:
It's really all a sad state of affairs.



It's incredible to me that what we have right now is a popularity contest and again the correlations to the church. The best sellers, the big name charismatic ... well, there's the word right there. Flamboyant, eloquence of speech, even [i]carefulness[/i] not to offend and ride the road of popularity, the "cult of personality".

The disclaimer is noted in regards to these political forays here but I do think it is the heart disease that we are examining. What does make this even more sad is to go back and look at the history and the character of men that began this country. We have already gone over the "Christian nation" aspects but there is no denying the foundations and fundamentals - What is striking is that character that seems so far from us in this day; There was a time when doing the right thing over ruled the pettiness and surface level, face saving, career enhancing aspects. I would forward that there was less selfishness and a certain nobility towards the greater good and doing what was needed. To [i]serve[/i] as an honor.

At any rate, to come full circle back to the origins of this post ... "Work-ethic" is what I cannot get out of my mind and that I believe is what is at bottom that Robert was getting at with the two comparable youngsters - whatever their circumstances and upbringings. It is what made this once great country what it ... is.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/11/3 9:21Profile









 Re:

Capitalism, socialism, nor democracy are the cure for the ills of this world. With greed and corruption abound in what is most definitely a sin problem, the real problems can only be exposed by the Holy Spirit through the church. Otherwise there is just blame and figerpointing. The world has all kinds of solutions but no revelation. The greatest validation to socialism is a failure in capitalism and vice versa. There were many quasi-socialists on Wall St. when a government bailout was announced. It had nothing to do with ideology at that point, but had everything to do with money. Despite which 'ism' one chooses, the greedy and powerful will still elevate themselves at the expense of everyone else. In this world the first will be first and those willing to pay the price of greed and lack of conscience will get there first. I believe God has shown us some things the last 16 years and this is what I've gleaned:

The failure of each party has had everything to do with the rise of the other...this has been a back and forth issue for some time. But one thing has remained constant.....greed and corruption. Money has been behind it all whether it be through lobbyists,embezzlement, or simply billions of dollars in 'legal' funding. The jockeying of power is an ideological one but it is still those who sell out to power and greed who remain influential despite what ideology got the most votes or gains control.

The church has tried in vain to exert its influence, the worlds way, and now we may be heading for a pendulum swing of ideology to the contrary side of the last terms. We'll see what folly God will expose regardless of whose in charge.

They say that in the midst of outright oppression in China, the underground church flourishes. And they don't get to vote. Perhaps the church in America has been more forceful in its own influence than devoted to the One who could have truly made a difference. Perhaps we've been trying to fit the square peg of selling out to political influence in to the round hole of God's perfect and mandated way. If oppression comes here, I submit that we look at ourselves as part of the problem rather than any ideology that God has allowed to rule. Leonard Ravenhill preached endlessly of trying moments coming to America because we choose to trade our Bibles in the home for mere stones on government property and creationism in our schools. If we fought as hard to turn the tv off, forgo year around soccer, and train our children up in The Word as we do to keep stones on goverment property and God in our schools perhaps the influence in America would come as a BYPRODUCT of our total devotion and faith to God. It seems to me that the more we exert influence in activism the more influence we have taken from us. Ravenhill would say that God is more concerned about the 'prayer office' than the 'oval office'. I think he was speaking prophetically in many ways in these pointed sermons.

 2008/11/3 10:24





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