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iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Quote:

BrianMira wrote:
This week he said: "To have a heart for the church, we must 1) pay our offering, 2) bring new people, and 3) help the church by cleaning it or some other activities."



Hey Brian,

You know I feel you! Many churches in Korea equate being saved with church attendence, and sanctification with serving. If you don't make it to every single church activity and help out whenever there is an opportunity, except to be treated like a pariah.

As for bringing people to church, that should be encouraged in any church -however, in many Korean churches, they would rather that you bring people to church to 'hear about Jesus' than have you witness to them directly. Its like friendship evangelism and church growth models from willowcreek, bring people to church so we can turn them into nominal Christians as well -more church-going unbelievers.

The problem is that most of these churches are operating under the law, they want to get people acting like 'Christians,' or how they think that Christians should act. They teach that if you just act like a Christian long enough, you'll come to saving faith... this is a total distortion of the Gospel of Jesus.

As for your question about whether or not a pastor can or should say that a person has gotten into heaven... I would say that there is no biblical foundation for a believer to make a claim that they cannot support -we do not know the heart of the people next to us, we do not know where they are headed. I cannot even say for sure whether all of the 'brothers' in my church are genuinely saved.

That being said, people want hope. A pastor wouldn't be wrong to say something like, 'Mr. Kim who we are here to remember today had a strong faith in the Lord Jesus, and Jesus promises that all those who believe in him will have eternal life, we pray that Mr. Kim has found his way home to the Lord, and is found faithful at the judgement.'


_________________
Ian Smith

 2008/12/14 1:59Profile
bobmutch
Member



Joined: 2008/6/26
Posts: 90


 Re:

Quote:
As for your question about whether or not a pastor can or should say that a person has gotten into heaven... I would say that there is no biblical foundation for a believer to make a claim that they cannot support -we do not know the heart of the people next to us, we do not know where they are headed. I cannot even say for sure whether all of the 'brothers' in my church are genuinely saved.



What about the following scriptures.

Mat 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


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Bob Mutch

 2008/12/15 13:39Profile









 Re:

Well, prosperity seems to have slipped into the Korean Salvation Army Church, too or at least in the one my wife and I attended today.

The Captain said... in order to have God's Blessings and have "a life like John D. Rockefeller" we must 1) keep the Sabbath 2) bring others to church and 3) pay 10%.

I thought we had to live like Jesus.

Please, pray for my wife and I. Tears are welling up in me as I type these words, because we have been greatly discouraged lately about the state of the churches here in Korea.

Two weeks ago, we went to an American "Calvary Baptist Church" which is somesort of a misssionary/army church here in Korea. That pastor actually preached from the bible, but I never saw someone beg like he did for people to come forward at the end of his sermon. He was clapping, snapping his fingers and was imploring for anyone to come. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, we attended three weeks of services... all the same.

Not to mention that the tithing envolopes quoted Malachi 3. I asked him about it and he gave me pamphlets on stewardship.

Like I mentioned, please pray for my wife and I, for God's direction. I told my wife today that we are going to start saving for a tent...

 2009/1/4 3:49
BVO
Member



Joined: 2004/10/6
Posts: 114
ohio

 Re:

Thanks for not being divisive and argumentative in this. I forgot that there were opposing views :-) but as I was reading some of Chris' post I thought about the souls of the martyred saints under the altar crying how long? I heard someone preach soul sleep years ago and I thought that made alot of sense, but as the years have past and I read and studied, I don't think it makes as much sense. Again as Ginnyrose said, we are hindered by time perception and there are sometimes things in scripture that still seem a little hazy, but I settled in my own heart that I have a responsibility to be true to Him that bought me while I have the breath to accomplish it, then the the timing of the rest is still His. It is appointed that every man should die, then the judgement. That works for me. Love in Christ Barry


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Barry Voss

 2009/1/4 7:33Profile





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