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 Re: Which Version?



Dear Iansmith:

Propaganda you say?? The correct word is Truth! The Propaganda is coming from the other side of the debate, from the side of the "Texural Critics", who support all of the Newer Versions since 1881 as being as good as, and even superior to the Approved Version, the King James Bible of the Protestant Reformation, the Protestant Body of Chirst. These supporters of the newer versions do not want the truth to be known.

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I have posted in favor of the KJV because there is a difference in the source text. One text comes from the true Christian Church, and the other from the Catholic Church, that use the Gnostic text.


The Protestant Christian of today has no idea of the roots of the Protestant Church and what separates it from Catholicism and the Orthodox Christian Church. The Protestant roots are the very Words of God, found in the only Protestant Bible, the King James version. The Catholics roots are found in their own man made version, edited and cut and pasted together by Gnostics. The Orthodox Chritian Church also relies on this same corrupt text.

The Catholic body and the Orthodox Christian Church accepts the Apocrypha (Deuterocanonical books & verses)[b] as "inspired"[/b]--they did so about 500 years before the Jews rejected them, and consider the "Deuterocnonicals" to be part of the "Christian Scriptures" since Pentecost!

[b]A great divide exists between Protestantism and every other "ism"- the great divide is the very Words of God versus the words of fallen man, the King James Bible Version of Protestanism verses all of the other Bible "Versions" created since 1881 (New Jerusalem Bible, American Standard, NIV, New King James, The Message, New Living, New Century, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.).

I have been posting on these differences in bible versions-- King James Bible in comparison to all of the other “versions”, that are the "edited words of God by fallen men".There is a vast difference between them. [color=000000]Yet Ccchhhrrriiisss and kingjimmy and others continue to say that there is no difference, just a difference in source text.[/color][/b]
[b][color=990000]That, my friend, is exactly what the difference is!. [/color][/b]

[b]However, the Protestant Body in 1881 knew their Bibles, and knew and understood Bible Doctrine enough to know that there was something drastically wrong with the 1881 Westcott & Hort Revision of the New Testament. All of the newer Bible versions of today use this same corrupt source text![/b]

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I guess you didn't study the link that I posted- The Tuesday, Feb. 8, 1881 Letters to the Editor of the New York Times. These are some of the things that Protestants could see then that varied from their Bibles- the King James Bible which was and is the "Approved" version of the Protestant faith.[b] They knew and understood Christian Doctrine, and when it was being attacked and marginalized by the enemy:

"The new revision omits altogether the Doxology of the Lord's Prayer: "For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever. Amen" The Unitarian version of 1808 omits it also. Prof. Birks of Cambridge, England strongly protests against this omission, however, as contrary to reason, and made "in the face of a tremendous improbability, amounting, in fact, to an impossibility." In Matthew, vi.:1, the new revision reads: "Take heed that ye do not your righteousness (instead of "your alms") before men." The Unitarian version makes it read: "Take heed that ye do not your actos of righteousness before men." {b]The change rests on doubtful authority.

In Matthew viii:36,37, the new revision reads: "For what doth it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? For should a man give in exchange for his life?" The Unitarian version reads: "For what will it profit a man if shall gain the whole world and forfeit his own life? Or what would a man give as a ransom for his life?" It is needless to say that the word "life," in the ordinary English sense of it, gives a totally inadequate meaning of the passage. The Greek word psuche used here has evidently two meanings, a lower and a higher, viz.,[b] life and soul, as may be seen in the previous verse, that a man may save his life and yet lose it, or lose his life and yet save it. That is, he may save his mortal life and lose his immortal soul, or he lose his mortal life and save his immortal soul. This distinction is obviously carried into the thirty-sixth and thirty-seventh verses. As Prof. Addison Alexander has shown, the Greek term denotes here not mere life, but "rather that which lives, enjoys, and suffers;" in other words, the sould. The rendering in the new revison is certainly very of the true sense.[/b]

The 1881 REJECTION of the 1881 revision of the New Testament goes into great detail, with over 5 pages of analysis:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=3&res=9D0CEEDA153BE033A25757C1A9649C94609FD7CF&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


[b]There has been a battle against God's Word since the beginning of time, and Satan has always been behind it.[/b] In Genesis, chapter 3 we find the first twisting, by Satan himself:
1. Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2.And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3.But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. [b] 4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.[/b]

[b]Counterfeit Gospel Arises with Satan at the helm[/b]

We have seen that Satan is the present ruler and god of this world. As the deceiver of humanity, Satan became deeply involved in religion early in human history. He deceives mankind by counterfeiting and corrupting the teachings of God.

[b]Did the apostles encounter a perverted gospel, corrupted versions of the teachings of Christ?[/b]

" I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." (Galatians 1:6-7).

" But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." (2 Peter 2:1-2).

[b]What was Paul's response to anyone who taught a different gospel?[/b]

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9).

[b]Paul condemned anyone who would preach a different gospel from the one taught by him, the other apostles and Jesus Christ. Though Paul does not give details of this distorted teaching, we see tell from later developments ways in which the message of Christ began to be corrupted.

Who was responsible for the false teachings?[/b]

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.2 Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV

[b]"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Corinthians 11: 13-15).[/b]

Paul asked the elders from the church at Ephesus to meet with him (Acts 20:17) shortly before his arrest in Jerusalem for preaching the gospel. He warned the elders: " 28. [b] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20: 28-30).[/b]

[b][color=000000]A growing number of false teachers were causing people to desert the teaching of Paul and the other apostles. These people taught their own nonscriptural ideas. [/color][/b]

[b]Paul wrote: “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:17-18).[/b]

[b][color=990000]Did Jesus Christ foresee this problem?

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:13-15).

Jesus knew false teachers would arise who would distort His teachings even as they claimed to represent Him. Such teachers steadily gained a larger following. They became the many, and, as Jesus had predicted, the faithful were, in comparison, the few.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]It wasn't long until a counterfeit Christianity, teaching a corrupted gospel radically different from that of Christ and His apostles, grew into a religious movement. Notice a modern historian's description of the result of the doctrinal changes in early centuries: "Contemplate the Christian Church at the beginning of the fourth century, therefore, and some difficulty will be experienced in recognizing in her the community of Apostolic times, or rather, we shall not be able to recognize it at all" (Charles Guignebert, The Early History of Christianity, 1927, p.122, emphasis added).

In less than three centuries the visible church that called itself Christian was no longer recognizable as the church founded by Christ and the apostles. At times those who refused to accept false doctrines and a corrupted gospel could no longer openly reveal their identity without risking persecution and death.

To this day, erroneous notions about the gospesl and doctrines of Christ abound under the banner of Christianity.[/color][/b]

[b][color=990000]Paul's warning still applies:"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:8).

At the reformation, the Protestant Church was born, not of the corrupt word of man, but by the Word of God, passed down from the believing Church.[/color][/b]

[b]Iansmith, we all have free will and the right to choose what we want to read and study. Just be aware that if you choose the newer versions, you are not in possession of the Word of God that was passed down from the believing Church. What you have in your hands is the “work and the words” of fallen man, the Gnostics, who edited, cut and pasted God’s word to suit their own DOCTRINE.[/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

iansmith wrote:
There should be a ban on cutting and pasting KJV-only propoganda. Honestly, if you feel so strongly about KJV-only, write your own argument in your own words and for this specific instance.

I love the KJV, and even own a copy of the Textus Receptus (in beautiful calfskin)... I'm probably more on your side than against it, but honestly, cutting and pasting something like that is like sending a text-message to your mom on mother's day instead of sending flowers. Show some love.

 2008/10/20 13:09
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Come on now. No one asked for the KJV arguement here.

Why submarine a thread with your own personal conviction? We know where you Walter and applaud your belief, but this is excessive.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/10/20 13:49Profile









 Re:


Hello, Micah:

Excessive, I hope not. I just pray, that in these last days that the body of Christ will have the true Word of God in their hands. I live in America, and I can already see what awaits us on the Horizon. Will we all be raptured before all of our freedoms are taken away? Is there any guarantee that we can even have a Bible to read and study, as the end comes close?

[b]We will need to have the Christianity of the Protestant reformation to get through what is coming our way. The Christianity that stood true to Christ while being burned alive at the stake. The type of Christianity that brought true revivial and brokeness and holiness. The type of Christianity that sent more missionaries to spread the Gospel to the world than we do today.

We have none of that today, and I believe that the root of the problem is the Bible that the Christian studies and the Doctrine that he internalizes. Does he study God's Spirit Breathed Word and internalize God's Doctrine that will live in his heart? Or does he study the corrupted words of God that have been cut and pasted by the Gnostics, by fallen man who wanted to change the very Words of God to conform to their own understanding of what it should mean.[/b]

Satan tempted Eve in the Garden, and he still tempts each of us today:

Genesis 3:4-5
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

[b]If we have the King James Bible in our hands, we have God's Spirit breathed Words, passed down to us from the believing Christian Church. If we have any of the other "newer" versions, published since 1881, then we do not have God's Spirit breathed words in our hands, but only the words of fallen man, who have changed God's Word to conform to their belief of what He should have said, the beliefs of the Gnostics![/b]

[b][color=660000] That, Micah, is my purpose, that is my hope. I pray that many will see that and do something about it, and if they are looking for a study Bible, or any other Bible, to only choose the King James Version and reject all of the others as Counterfeit.

However, like I said in the last post, we all have freewill.[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

 2008/10/20 14:22
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Good post Walter.

I know that you have a heart geared towards the Lord, as do I. I too wish for the truth to always be shared, and only the truth.

Your zeal was never in question Walter. I for one commend you for yours. Blessings to all who stand for the truth, albeit by the KJV, ESV, NKJV, etc...


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/10/20 14:36Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: ESV and ESV Study Bible

Here is a link to a really good review of the ESV Study Bible:


[url=http://www.challies.com/archives/book-reviews/the-esv-study-bible---a-review.php]ESV Study Bible Review[/url]



_________________
TJ

 2008/10/21 23:24Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

I have met some incredible Christians in my days who don't use the KJV, and some of the most obnoxious horrible 'Christians' that refuse to acknowledge anyone as Christian who doesn't use the KJV.

God can use a donkey to speak the truth, he can use any translation of the bible to do so.

Many authoritarian groups and cults use the KJV exclusively, I could just as easily make the argument that scripture can be twisted, no matter what the translation.

The KJV was translated in England in 1611 and earlier, and I have no doubt that there were some incredibly Godly and gifted men on the translation commity, but we also have to remember that there was plenty of 'sin' that made the Church of England's existence possible -if you want to start making connections we can start making connections.

The translators of the KJV were sinners saved by grace... but sinners none the less, just as the translators of the NIV, NASB, ESV etc. are sinners saved by grace. Were the Greek versions used to make the translations different, yes, but where did these books originally come from -we can conjecture, but most likely they are all from the same source.

Honestly, this was about one person asking about the ESV, and you brought out 'the big guns' for the KJV-only crowd. I think it was inappropriate.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2008/10/22 6:45Profile





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