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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Revival churches in the washington dc area, or am I being to critical???

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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,i can understand your zeal for holiness and seeing it demonstrated in the sermons of your pastor. Len ravenhill was driven by this same vision but was tempered by great love for Jesus and people. we all think that we have a duty to preach sin, wrath,hell,holiness etc. we are to preach the gospel of the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross and invite people to come and DIE. we can not clean up live(bios) people. the Holy Spirit is the covictor of sin. if your life is hid with Christ in God you will change as a caterpillar changes into a butterfly. it is with joy that you draw waters out of the wells of salvation and in that day shall you say praise the Lord.remember that God saved you out of the pit:not preaching ,not fear which has torment. only through faith in Jesus. please read Micah 6:8 i only write this to you because i saw myself 45 yrs ago in your writings. jimp

 2008/10/15 1:44Profile
Crossbearer8
Member



Joined: 2008/10/13
Posts: 12


 Re:

Quote:

jimp wrote:
hi,i can understand your zeal for holiness and seeing it demonstrated in the sermons of your pastor. Len ravenhill was driven by this same vision but was tempered by great love for Jesus and people. we all think that we have a duty to preach sin, wrath,hell,holiness etc. we are to preach the gospel of the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross and invite people to come and DIE. we can not clean up live(bios) people. the Holy Spirit is the covictor of sin. if your life is hid with Christ in God you will change as a caterpillar changes into a butterfly. it is with joy that you draw waters out of the wells of salvation and in that day shall you say praise the Lord.remember that God saved you out of the pit:not preaching ,not fear which has torment. only through faith in Jesus. please read Micah 6:8 i only write this to you because i saw myself 45 yrs ago in your writings. jimp



The concern is not with myself, God has taken a hold of me and He will finish the work He started. I say these things out of concern and anguish for others, If one sees what I see and hears what I hear at this place of worship they could understand the urgency and frustration. I write these things because I see dead churchgoers all around me, like I said, makes me want to cry out.

 2008/10/15 10:17Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Crossbearer8 wrote:
Quote:

The perfect church, on earth one will not exist, such perfection is only above.



Matt 5:48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are told here that we shall be perfect. Is this on this earth or in heaven?

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Jesus tells this man if he wants to be perfect know sell all he has and give it to the poor. So by this verse we can be perfect know on this earth.

Matt 19:26 And Jesus looking upon them said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

We might find it hard to believe that we can be perfect but with God all things are possible.

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus came onto this earth to save us from sin this sinfullness we are born with is the root cause of us being unperfect. Jesus shall save his people from sin so that we can presented to him as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle.

Eph 5:27 that he might present the church to himself a glorious church , not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

I know it looks impossible because the church is in a terrible mess. But he is a God of the impossible he can and will do it.

Keep your head up cross bearer there is hope. Don't get frustrated or angry but rejoice as God will show his mighty hand again when he comes to breathe life back into the church.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/10/15 21:56Profile
Crossbearer8
Member



Joined: 2008/10/13
Posts: 12


 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Quote:

Crossbearer8 wrote:
Quote:

The perfect church, on earth one will not exist, such perfection is only above.



Matt 5:48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are told here that we shall be perfect. Is this on this earth or in heaven?

Matt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Jesus tells this man if he wants to be perfect know sell all he has and give it to the poor. So by this verse we can be perfect know on this earth.

Matt 19:26 And Jesus looking upon them said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

We might find it hard to believe that we can be perfect but with God all things are possible.

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus came onto this earth to save us from sin this sinfullness we are born with is the root cause of us being unperfect. Jesus shall save his people from sin so that we can presented to him as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle.

Eph 5:27 that he might present the church to himself a glorious church , not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

I know it looks impossible because the church is in a terrible mess. But he is a God of the impossible he can and will do it.

Keep your head up cross bearer there is hope. Don't get frustrated or angry but rejoice as God will show his mighty hand again when he comes to breathe life back into the church.



1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we are decieving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

You are taking that out of context. This perfection will be someday, once our corruptible self will be clothed with incorruptable self, but never in the the flesh, perfection in the flesh was seen and will only be seen in one, which is Christ. To say one is freed from the slavery of sin is different then to say you are perfect and without blemish.

Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good? Jesus asked him. No one is good but One-God."

Even a Christian reborn in the Spirit is full of blemish and sin in the presence of a Holy God.

 2008/10/15 23:05Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Yes your right every Christian that is reborn is full of blemishes and sin but there is a deeper work, a second blessing, Holiness, Christian perfection. This is the difference between the church today and the church of yesteryears.

The secret of it all. “Perfect love” and this is surely possible, but only possible when Jesus Christ Himself—God Himself Who is love— comes to dwell in our hearts.

1 John 4 v 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Is Love enough will it banish sin from my life

1 Cor 13

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Perfect Love drives out a the vast army of sins.

Love never fails.

To me to live is Christ”—and Christ is love

It cannot be doubted that the bible expects some sort of perfection that perfection is Love.

Is there any men who testify to this perfection here is one testimony.

Samuel Brengle Helps to Holiness

He gave me such a blessing as I never had dreamed a man could have this side of Heaven. It was a heaven of love that came into my heart. I walked out over Boston Common before breakfast weeping for joy and praising God. Oh, how I loved! In that hour I knew Jesus and I loved Him till it seemed my heart would break with love. I loved the sparrows, I loved the dogs, I loved the horses, I loved the little urchins on the streets, I loved the strangers who hurried past me, I loved the heathen -- I loved the whole world.

Do you want to know what holiness is? It is pure love. Do you want to know what the baptism of the Holy Ghost is? It is not a mere sentiment. It is not a happy sensation that passes away in a night. It is a baptism of love that brings every thought into captivity to the Lord Jesus (2 Cor. x. 5); that casts out all fear (I John iv. 18); that burns up doubt and unbelief as fire burns tow; that makes one "meek and lowly in heart" (Matt. xi. 29); that makes one hate uncleanness, lying and deceit, a flattering tongue and every evil way with a perfect hatred; that makes Heaven and Hell eternal realities; that makes one patient and gentle with the froward and sinful; that makes one "pure ... peaceable ... easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy" (Jas. iii. 17); that brings one into perfect and unbroken sympathy with the Lord Jesus Christ in His toil and travail to bring a lost and rebel world back to God. God did all that for me, bless His holy name!

It's possilbe, it is possible.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/10/16 10:03Profile
Crossbearer8
Member



Joined: 2008/10/13
Posts: 12


 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Yes your right every Christian that is reborn is full of blemishes and sin but there is a deeper work, a second blessing, Holiness, Christian perfection. This is the difference between the church today and the church of yesteryears.

The secret of it all. “Perfect love” and this is surely possible, but only possible when Jesus Christ Himself—God Himself Who is love— comes to dwell in our hearts.

1 John 4 v 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Is Love enough will it banish sin from my life

1 Cor 13

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Perfect Love drives out a the vast army of sins.

Love never fails.

To me to live is Christ”—and Christ is love

It cannot be doubted that the bible expects some sort of perfection that perfection is Love.

Is there any men who testify to this perfection here is one testimony.

Samuel Brengle Helps to Holiness

He gave me such a blessing as I never had dreamed a man could have this side of Heaven. It was a heaven of love that came into my heart. I walked out over Boston Common before breakfast weeping for joy and praising God. Oh, how I loved! In that hour I knew Jesus and I loved Him till it seemed my heart would break with love. I loved the sparrows, I loved the dogs, I loved the horses, I loved the little urchins on the streets, I loved the strangers who hurried past me, I loved the heathen -- I loved the whole world.

Do you want to know what holiness is? It is pure love. Do you want to know what the baptism of the Holy Ghost is? It is not a mere sentiment. It is not a happy sensation that passes away in a night. It is a baptism of love that brings every thought into captivity to the Lord Jesus (2 Cor. x. 5); that casts out all fear (I John iv. 18); that burns up doubt and unbelief as fire burns tow; that makes one "meek and lowly in heart" (Matt. xi. 29); that makes one hate uncleanness, lying and deceit, a flattering tongue and every evil way with a perfect hatred; that makes Heaven and Hell eternal realities; that makes one patient and gentle with the froward and sinful; that makes one "pure ... peaceable ... easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy" (Jas. iii. 17); that brings one into perfect and unbroken sympathy with the Lord Jesus Christ in His toil and travail to bring a lost and rebel world back to God. God did all that for me, bless His holy name!

It's possilbe, it is possible.



I strongly disagree, the closer God draws me to Him, the more He reveals Himself to me,the more sinful things God purges from me, the more I feel aware of how wretched I still am and will be. I can relate to Paul's take of this matter, that is having Gods Spirit in a fleshly body bound by sin.


Romans 7:14-25
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 2008/10/16 11:46Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

What is then the perfection of which man is capable while he dwells in a corruptible body? It is the complying with that kind command, "My son, give me thy heart." It is the "loving the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind." This is the sum of Christian perfection: It is all comprised in that one word, Love. The first branch of it is the love of God: And as he that loves God loves his brother also, it is inseparably connected with the second: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:" Thou shalt love every man as thy own soul, as Christ loved us. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets:" These contain the whole of Christian perfection.

Taken from John Wesley On Perfection

[url=http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/Wesley/serm-076.stm]John Wesley On Perfection[/url]


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/10/16 19:46Profile





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