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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : From Babylon to Jerusalem with Zac Poonen

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hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

HeartSong wrote:
Hello Christian,

I think the problem lies in the way that you copy the link. Try:

Going to the page that contains the Audio Sermon that you want to copy.

Right click on the word "Comments (x)" underneath the description of the sermon.

Select "copy link location"

Then paste this into your link . . .



Ok, i have no trouble right clicking on the link as it is now. But considering people have problems i will change the link and keep it in the future such, that when clicking on the link it will direct you to the "comment page" and not directly to the sermon. I will change the link also to this way.

Here are some things that stood out to me, well many things did. But here are some in short.

Two themes in the book of Daniel

1) Gods absolute sovereignty over all things, people and nations. Seeing in the first verse God is the one who gives kingdoms and kings to victory or defeat.

2) Overcoming, the book of Daniel is a book of the theme overcoming. And it has a message that is more and more understood the closer to the end we come.

Some of the things I like, is the way Zac in very short make the bible so easy to understand. He sums up so much history that even a 9 year old can understand. And what spoke to me is the patience and loving long suffering of God who sent his prophets to preach for 40 years to His backslidden people. They did not listen. And the great fact that one single person can make the difference between judgment and mercy. If God had found one single person that was upright, Israel would never had gone into captivity.

They went to meetings, listened to sermons and Gods word. They where religious, they knew the doctrines. But all of them was compromisers and none was upright. So God sent them to babylon

What is both scary and encyraging is, that Gods mercy can be upon a church, or a family if ONE person is upright there, in the midst of a compromizing christianity can ONE person bring Gods mercy. In a family where pherhaps many are carnal and living for the world, one upright mom or young person can bring Gods grace and patience there, because they are upright and walking before God. What a thing to lay hold of!

the scary part is, God sent his chosen people away, an entire nation of His elect people was compromisers. What a lesson for todays Christendom. How often do we hear "we are privileged" God will not judge us. So said all of israel to. We need to take heed and believe Gods word rather then mans doctrines.

another point that struck me was, that in 2 chr 36:14-21 it speaks about how the priest first did the abominations of the heathens and then all the people also. So we can learn when there is no difference between what the heathen does and live for and the people called Gods children. We know there is something wrong. And it starts with the leaders.

..Also in verse 8 ve see that Daniel purposed in his heart not to defile himself. In a generation of compromizers and halfhearted belivers, this young man took a stand for God and is an example to all of us. It is possible not to defile oneself in the midst of a wicked age full of defiled people. Even if an entire nation does it, you and i can rejoice that we can stand like Daniel and not defile ourselves.

There where some more things that i felt was very important also, but these i think will be a good start


Christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/10/7 16:01Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I am sorry i have not transcribed my notes as of yet here, but ill do it shortly! I think it would be a very fruitful discussion about the two themes brother Zac speaks about and the seven reasons God sent Israel to Babylon. There is great lessons for us to learn here.



The seven reasons for captivity that Zac covers are very enlightening. I couldn't help but make a connection with this verse...

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (Rev 17:9)

I know that some have thought that the seven mountains are the seven hills of Rome but I wonder, could these seven reasons Zac expounds upon be the seven mountains that Mystery Babylon sits upon?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2008/10/9 22:55Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Giving the land a rest every 7th year really caught my attention. I live in a farming community, and I don't know of anyone that does this.

God, as He has promised, provides extra in the 6th year so that there will be plenty for the 7th year rest. But the people, in their greed, consume the abundance of the 6th year, and then turn around and rape the land in the 7th year.

We are to save and instead we borrow.

We are to rest and yet we strive.

When added to Poonen's comment that God keeps close accounts - well, this may very well be one of the reasons that things have come to where they are today.

 2008/10/10 15:19Profile
mackaymarsh
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Joined: 2007/5/21
Posts: 132


 Re: Seven Reasons why Israel went into captivity in Babylon

Feel free to help me tweak this post a bit, but I beleve this is the essence of the seven reasons. - Wayne

[b][color=000099]Seven Reasons why Israel went into captivity in Babylon. In 1451 B. C. they came into the land. In 606 B.C. they went in to captivity. Why? {same (type?) reasons why Church is in Babylon today.}[/color][/b]

1. II Chronicles 36: 14-21 NUMBER [b][color=FF0000]ONE[/color][/b] REASON –All the Priests and therefore the people were unfaithful by following all the abominations of the heathen. Notice: first the leaders and then the people. They became like the Heathen people around them. They profess to know God, but their life was just like those heathen people around them. One of the prominent sins of the Heathen people was, like today, sexual sin (see Leviticus 18).

2. II Chronicles 36: 14 they defiled the House of the Lord by Idolatry. Ezekiel 8: 7-16. Abominable carvings in the House of the Lord. Included a form of Sun-Worship.

3. II Kings 24: 1-4 Sins of Manasseh including shedding innocent blood. II Chronicles 33: 6 offered his sons as sacrifice; and witchcraft.

4. II Chronicles 36: 16 they mocked the Messengers of God.

5. II Chronicles 36: 16 they despised God’s Word. (See Jeremiah 5: 1) God was looking for ONE man in Jerusalem that was upright. If so, God would spare Jerusalem.

6. II Chronicles 36: __ they ill-treated God’s prophets. (See Jeremiah 37: 15) Put Jeremiah in prison just because he spoke the truth. They also tolerated false prophets. (See Micah 3: 5) Today, preachers and workers will not serve unless they are paid.

7. II Chronicles 36: 21 they did not keep the Sabbath; not the seventh day Sabbath, but the seventh year Sabbath. They were to cultivate the land for 6 years, but to give the land a Sabbath rest the seventh year in order to refresh the land. God would supernaturally bless the harvest the 6th year 3 times in order to give them a regular harvest, enough to replace the 7th year harvest and enough to sustain them during the 8th year (the 1st year of the next 7 year cycle), when they worked the fields and replanted. Greed stepped in. They reaped the rewards of the 6th year blessing, [b][color=FF0000]BUT[/color][/b] continued to plant as usual during the Sabbath year and did so for 490 years. They were taken captive to Babylon [b][color=FF0000]UNTIL the LAND[/color][/b] had enjoyed its Sabbath. Judah had not kept the Seventh Year Sabbath for 490 years which equals 70 Sabbath years. Seventy years of captivity equals the amount of time the land should have lain fallow in order to refresh. (See Leviticus 25) We cannot cheat God. See II Chronicles 36: 21. Israel entered the land in 1451 B.C. and went into captivity in 606 B. C. They were in the land for 845 years. During this time Israel did not keep the 7th year Sabbath 70 times.

Notice the 490 years without the seventh year Sabbath may not have been a continuous 490 years but maybe they were spread out during their stay in Canaan. The message: God was keeping an account with what they were supposed to have been doing.

Quote:
When added to Poonen's comment that God keeps close accounts - well, this may very well be one of the reasons that things have come to where they are today.



I believe you are correct.






 2008/10/10 18:26Profile
mackaymarsh
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Joined: 2007/5/21
Posts: 132


 Re:


Quote:
Some of the things I like, is the way Zac in very short make the bible so easy to understand. He sums up so much history that even a 9 year old can understand.



This is a main reason for his effectiveness. He has stated that he set out in the beginning to make his messages so simple and pure that even the children could understand. Oh, how I wish more would follow suit.

 2008/10/10 18:35Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Quote:
1. II Chronicles 36: 14-21 NUMBER ONE REASON –All the Priests and therefore the people were unfaithful by following all the abominations of the heathen. Notice: first the leaders and then the people.



Somehow I had it in my head that the reason our government is so corrupt is because the people are full of sin, so therefore our leaders have become corrupt because we can not call them to task for that which we ourselves are doing . . . but this is saying the reverse.

Do we put them in power, or does God put them in power? Or maybe this is also part of the problem - we are choosing who we would have over us rather than trusting God to provide the right leader.

 2008/10/10 18:56Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
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 Re:

Quote:

HeartSong wrote:
Quote:
1. II Chronicles 36: 14-21 NUMBER ONE REASON –All the Priests and therefore the people were unfaithful by following all the abominations of the heathen. Notice: first the leaders and then the people.



Somehow I had it in my head that the reason our government is so corrupt is because the people are full of sin, so therefore our leaders have become corrupt because we can not call them to task for that which we ourselves are doing . . . but this is saying the reverse.

Do we put them in power, or does God put them in power? Or maybe this is also part of the problem - we are choosing who we would have over us rather than trusting God to provide the right leader.



We think we are making a "difference" in whom we vote for, i think maybe we need reconsider. I believe God puts the kings and rulers in their places, we will se emore of this topic later on in this series. Brother Zac shares on this very issue.

I do think we can learn much from these 7 points, there is much gain for the inner man meditating upon these. Here is the second message.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=14771&commentView=itemComments](Daniel) Ch.1:8-2:35 by Zac Poonen[/url]

Just as the first message this one is packed with provoking and encouraging gems to behold in our quiet times and for me helps to "stir my self up" to decide what kind of man i want to be for God in this last days we are living in.

i will post my thoughts on some of the things later on when i have some more time :-)

But i must say, we are only eight verses in so far, and we have some food already!

brother Christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/10/13 14:09Profile
hmmhmm
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Posts: 4991
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 Re:

Some thoughts on part 2.

The number one reason for the captivity was covetousness. As we saw with the seven year sabbath.

And this is the reason still today, Mammon. So christianity with a large emphesis on money is almost certain babylonian christianity.

Another thing, Daniel was a young man. And Gods "move" has always been raising up young people.

the key verse according to Zac is v8. If this verse had not been so. nothing else would have happend in the book of Daniel.

That Daniel would not defile himself, he would not eat this from the king, this "opportunity" that many would see it as, a chance to get some wordly fame and honor by eating the kings food. But Daniel was a man of God and counted it for nothing. He would rather die then compromize.

Also what spoke to me very much is, that it dont take a election campaign with millions of dollars. Slogans and all the rest. It takes four men who know God and trust him to effect the most powerful nation on earth.

Because it is God who puts Kings and and rulers in their place, not we. And we need not compromise and try effect the Kings and leaders. God is the one who can effect their hearts and minds so we need only to walk before God and not the antichrist kingdoms that are on earth.

Also an interesting thing was about the magicians of Babylon. That these people had not the connection with God. They just have knowledge. "Give me a verse ill explain it" just human head knowledge and no supernatural revelation.

and this we see much today in Babylonian Christendom. People know verses and doctrine but have no supernatural power in their lifes.

And Daniel, being still alive when Ezekiel lines him in the same category as Noa and Job. And God knew this young man was so humble that would not get him puffed up and proud so he would lose his salvation.

Daniel surly is a man for us in the last days, a overcomer of the overcomers.

Also Daniel was Gods man for the hour, the most wholehearted, most holy most everything, still he needed his brethren and the "body" so to speak.

So we learn we can never make it on our own.


Just a few "gems" that spoke to me from this sermon. You have to forgive the non order and non structured way i write them down :-D


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/10/14 14:48Profile
HeartSong
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 Re:

Something that really made an impression on me was the way in which our Lord can sustain us. While I already knew this to a degree, I had never heard anyone state it as such.

It is not the food that we eat that sustains us, but rather the blessing of the Lord upon it - that we can be supernaturally "fed." Daniel, by choosing not to partake of that which was forbidden by God, was nourished better than those that were seemingly eating better food - albeit forbidden.

Daniel's refusal to compromise in small matters held great weight with the Lord, proving that he could be trusted in matters of great importance - these not being matters of importance to Daniel, but rather for others.

 2008/10/14 15:23Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

HeartSong wrote:
Something that really made an impression on me was the way in which our Lord can sustain us. While I already knew this to a degree, I had never heard anyone state it as such.

It is not the food that we eat that sustains us, but rather the blessing of the Lord upon it - that we can be supernaturally "fed." Daniel, by choosing not to partake of that which was forbidden by God, was nourished better than those that were seemingly eating better food - albeit forbidden.

Daniel's refusal to compromise in small matters held great weight with the Lord, proving that he could be trusted in matters of great importance - these not being matters of importance to Daniel, but rather for others.



I agree sister, i thought about this also. The obedience to God will bring the blessing and everything we need to live. we need not compromise to keep a job, or get better food or schools or positions. If we have this attitude we will be al right. We will have Gods blessing


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 2008/10/15 10:45Profile





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