Reply to I have only been married to one woman but she was married before she and I were. She has a son that she and I raised from the age of two. I have previously referred to him on this forum as my forty eight year old son. In some of the more base religions my wife and I were not forgiven at the time we were saved even though they claim all the nasty vile things they did were all forgiven. Go figure! Eddie
My bad... how embarrassing! Oh boy! lol...Hey, listen, when I teach I gaff all the time. My wife is right there afterwards to point them all out for me!!My face is red.Somehow I think I got mixed up in my mind about Noah getting drunk and his son seeing his "nakedness", and the story about Lott.
Bibleschool... on some points you're correct, but you overall assertion is flat wrong.Did God consider Hosea married to Gomer or not? The correct answer is: He did recognize it as marriage. She was in no way even close to being a virgin, and was unfaithful even in marriage. Yet she was still his wife in God's eyes. Of course the story about Hosea has a much deeper meaning, and is a prophetic analogy of God's relationship to unfaithful Israel... but we can certainly learn from the practical sense of the book too.Now, if what you're attempting to say were true then God completely contradicted Himself by [b]commanding[/b] Hosea to marry a wife of "whoredoms".Many of us here were not saved until well after we were married, myself and my beautiful wife included. Neither of us were ever married before, but neither of us were virgins when we met either. At the point of our salvation (she was saved awhile before I was) our past was forgiven. Period. End of story. Nothing before that matters anymore.You are only partly correct when you say that "becoming one flesh" is a physical act. You're leaving out completely that it is [b]mainly[/b] a spiritual act, a spiritual joining together. That is why scripture calls it a [b]"mystery"[/b].The physical act isnt any mystery. So why would scripture call it one?You're laying down a law on people that doesnt exist anywhere in scripture. Thats would make you a legalist.Now listen, we're probably more together than not on the divorce issue. Scripture makes it quite clear about divorce and remarriage. And certainly there are a lot of people in the church today who remarried outside of the guidelines of scripture. We wont have any argument on that point.But I'm also not one of those who say "you must leave your current wife and children and live in excile" as some have put forth on that forum before. No, what they need to do is repent for their past mistakes before God... and move on, recognizing that because of their past they are scripturally ineligible to hold certain positions within the church... such as pastor.But I dont promote tearing apart families. I dont see God in that at all. What the devil meant for bad, God can turn around for good. And He forgives.If you wish to live under the laws your making up, be my guest. I'm going to live according to scripture.Krispy
The errors I perceive.1. Pre-marital sex is a sin, where "pre-marital" means "before making a vow" by way of church wedding, priest blessing, or signatures on a paper.2. That "fornication" means the above - it rather means, having sex with a non-virgin. Technically, Fornication comes from the greek word "porno" which is commonly known as "the display of a woman in sex to a man who is not her husband ". Biblically, it means a woman having two husbands - where the Pharisees retorted at Jesus suggesting they had another father besides Abraham, they stated - "We are not children of fornication"3. The errors developing from the above. When Jesus says, "you cannot get a divorce, saving for fornication". People have said this to mean, if your spouse has sex with another person, this gives you the right to divorce. NO. The truth has been turned inside out, with this interpretation. The truth is, You can NEVER divorce. You can only divorce if the woman was never your wife in the first place, ie, she was not a virgin, which is why Jesus says, divorce is permissible in the case of fornication.4. Fornication is seen as the CARDINAL sin - which is another error. This belief comes from seeing fornication as so bad, as to warrant dividing asunder what God has joined together. Naturally, many errors diverge out of the one fundamental mistake of forgetting that MARRIAGE = VIRGINITY
RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE TRUTHRegarding Hosea, your reasoning would appear plausible, except that Hosea was a singular case, much like Isaiah is told to walk naked on the street:Isaiah 20:2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. Is the bible teaching us to walk naked on the street? In the same way, is the Bible teaching us to marry a wife of whoredoms, as Hosea?No, in fact the Bible is teaching us to do the very opposite:1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.Hosea's "wife" is only called his wife, because marriage can sometimes less strictly be defined as having sex, whether with a harlot, or indeed with anyone:1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. The cases where Jesus proposes divorce is the situation where a man is married in this less strict sense.
Marriage is a PHYSICAL ACT of taking the VIRGINITY of a woman, then she becomes your wife.
_________________Paul Frederick West
I agree with Paul... I dont think that this discussion should get anymore "detailish".Suffice it to say that I think on some minor points you are correct... but your overall point is completely off base.On top of that (and this is only my own perception and may be completely wrong) I dont get a sense that your purpose in starting this thread is to lovingly warn folks agaisnt falling into sin... but seems rather to be coming from a place of condemnation.I am reminded of the woman caught in the act of adultry. Once the crowd scattered Jesus knelt down and Jesus does not say "Sin no more, and then I won't condemn you." This is the way LAW/RELIGION answers the question. By the way, Old Testament LAW doesn't accept this formula; it says "Don't sin at all, and then I won't condemn you." According to God's LAW, the first time we break it we become deserving of God's condemnation (James 2:10).Instead, Jesus/GRACE says "I do not condemn you--now go and sin no more." He isn't saying merely that he won't prosecute her (he can't). Neither is he saying that she isn't responsible for her actions ("go and sin no more"). Neither is he saying that he accepts her apology to him (she didn't apologize or do anything to him). He is forgiving what she did to others, and to God. In other words, he is issuing a declaration of divine forgiveness (as in Mark 2), even though she is guilty!You would do well to learn less LAW... and more GRACE.Krispy
This thread is coming dangerously close to being locked. Proceed with discretion.
Hey guys... I would like to apologize if anyone thinks I went to far.Sometimes it's a fine line about how to discuss issues like these. What "Bibleschool" is putting forth here is unscriptural and does need to be rebuked. Any attempt to put believers in bondage to supposed "law" should be confronted.Let grace rule the day.Krispy
HiI don't even think what "Bible school" is talking about is "Law" either.