"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Man of God - Interview of Leonard Ravenhill (transcript)|
I got saved at 14. I am 84, almost 85. So I mean 70 years I have seen all kinds of
tragedies in the church, wars and rumors of wars, popular men go, popular and so forth. But I keep looking unto Jesus and reading the Word. I am remembering these old paths that my daddy used to talk about so much and all the other looks like trivia.
I have often said that I didn’t come to Jesus. As an old English hymn that we used to sing so often, I came to Jesus I was weary and worn and sat at him because I was 14 and I didn't understand my father’s zeal for God. I didn’t come because I was convicted of sin. I came because of the blanks in my life like he relished reading the Word of God and he relished going to prayer meetings even half nights of prayer. And also more than ever he relished being a street corner preacher and that...do you remember the hymn, My Faith Looks up to thee, thou Lamb of Calvary? Well, the last stanza says.
May thy rich grace impart
Strength to my fainting heart,
My zeal inspire.
And my daddy had inspired zeal. God lifted the beggar from the dunghill. He completely changed my dad. He had been through a certain system of religion which made him fearful and terrified of priest craft and all that. And he got marvelously born again as a result of hearing David Matthews who went through the Welsh Revival. Then he wrote the classic. It is still a classic on I Saw the Welsh Revival. Well, my daddy had never been in meetings like that and the fervor and the joy.
Particularly I remember seeing David Matthews when I was five years of age. I had
never seen anybody preach like that. He sang like with his mouth like an oval and he had
a shock of black, wavy hair and he had a zeal and he had a joy in the Lord that stirred.
And my daddy got saved.
Well, as a result of that, as I say, he became fervent in spirit serving the Lord. I never saw
him downcast. I never saw him suggest about giving up. But, I mean, when he got saved
he tossed away his interest in professional football and everything else which, of course,
became a style in England. After you are saved you never go to a movie, you never go to
a professional match. There is so much profanity and so forth.
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And when I saw that and I saw the joy and we lived in comparative poverty. We hadn’t
much money. And my daddy was a laborer. And as a result of that, as I said, at 14 he
took me for a half night to prayer meeting with three other men there. And they prayed
and my daddy is a big husky man taking his coat off at one o'clock in the morning in a
room that had no heat and praying with tears and fervor.
From that very day I recognized there was something far beyond what the average
Christian had. And then after that, of course, I went to the Methodist class until I was 14
and that was full of the joy of the Lord and I mean people spoke as though God lived
with them all of the time and he did.
And there was that same kind of zeal there. I mean even in those days back in the 19
ought...well, around 1912, just before World War I even there was a half hour song
singing before the Sunday night service, but they didn’t sing choruses except choruses
from hymns. Oh, they sang great hymns like And Can it Be and so forth. And you had
men who would explode at a meeting when they were singing, ”And can it be that I
should gain...my chains fell off.” One old boy would jump and the tears roll down his
face. He would strike it at the end as a woman to the left of us. I used to watch her
because her neck would go red and then she would suddenly burst with a Hallelujah, you
know. We talk about the joy of the Lord, but have never seen anything like it.
So, well, at that time Samuel tried to make his preaching in the...he had revival in the
local level in Lees. And, of course, the conversation in our house, we hardly ever had a
newspaper. There was no talk about films of course. They were just coming out then. It
was all about God and ministries and so forth.
Daddy told me this. He, Patrick Whelps, who founded the Japan Rescue Mission, I was
about 12 I think. [?] morning. And later saw this cable it was [?] who walked through
China in the Gobi desert and all that kind of...my daddy, whatever. There was anything
fervent. I will tell you. I have had five...Doncaster was 25 miles away from us. Well,
there was a Pentecostal fellowship there. And I forget the name of the Bible teacher, but
my daddy...he had a bus to town, another bus from town to Doncaster and then walked
the rest of the way to the fellowship and stayed there the weekend and came back raging
to say he had been in the upper room which had just about had, because [?] was one of
the teachers there and all those guys.
And nobody knows this, scornfully said, “Faith healing is fake healing.”
And one of the living evidences of people spontaneously getting out of wheelchairs and
so forth. But it wasn’t that. Merely was a transformation [?]. I mean they went back to
the churches and had prayer meetings and in our town we had a little man. He was
only...I don’t think he weighs above about 110 pounds. And for years he fasted and
prayed. He was a Pentecostal which was despised. In fact his wife said to hear him pray,
he would be praying in another room, it was like a man having a first encounter with
God. He wrestled with God.
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Well, then, George Jeffries came along in 1927. the whole city was swept in three weeks
with the Holy Ghost. And the church is there today. It is called Bridge Street in Lees,
England. That church is still...it is in its third enlargement. While other churches are
going down, they are still [?]. They were born in the fire. They maintained the fire. But
they may [?] prayer all the time.
Well, then from there I was in a factory working in a factory one day and I heard a voice
say, “Follow me.” And I turned it was so real. I took my tape off my neck. I was a
tailor’s cutter. I put my shears down and prayed and I remember saying clearly to the
Lord, “Lord, not only will I not go back, I won’t even look back.” And that day I applied
to go to Cliff College and then went Saturday because the principal there was a chap that
birds of a feather flock together.
So a great character in America at that time was A.B. Simpson, founder of Christian
Missionary Alliance. And also in Scotland there was a man by the name of McIntire
which wrote a little book Hidden Life of Prayer. It is one of the classics. It is still
Well, those three men knew...of course, across the Atlantic there was no telephone in
those days. And mail was slow, but they corresponded all the time because they were on
Well, Chadwick went out and right opposite his church in the village of Lees there is a
oversized statue of Queen Victoria with a big spread in front of it. And men used to
stand on there and preach.
Well, an Atheist stood there and he laughed at people coming out to church and scorned
them and told them a man standing in a coward’s castle a pulpit. He talks one way. [?]
listen to me and they listen.
Well, Chadwick went out and listened to this man scorning the Bible and everything.
Well, one day he said, “Listen. I have listened to you three weeks. You daren’t come and
listen to me. You come and listen to me.”
He said, “I’ll come next.”
So he came and there is a big horseshoe gallery and right opposite the preacher was the
flock and this man, the leader of the [?] club and [?]and they came to the oath of the first
night they were there and he wiped out the whole testimony of the atheist. And then he
wiped out the...all the devil [?] in the community at level on a local...revival on a local
level. And it was all prayer. I mean, he wrote the book The Way to Pentecost. And after
that he wrote the book The Path of Prayer. And that is where they live. And that is
where he wrote that on so many of us that we...we saw a living example of it, a man who
walked in the power of the Spirit.
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Well, then I have gone for long enough, but I won’t. All the time I have tried to feed
myself. I have gathered books. I have a rack of books on prayer and a whole stack of
books on history of revival which we don’t have anymore. America hasn’t had a revival
in the last 70 years that I know of.
I mean revival that closes the shops and as soon as people get home they want to get to
the sanctuary and they don’t stay to seven o'clock tonight. They just go eight till midnight
and after, when the Holy Ghost really comes.
I think maybe afterward praying in England [?] Holy Spirit would come, but I wondered
what they wanted him to come for, just to increase your numbers? Just so our kids won’t
go to the devil. I mean are we jealous for God’s glory? And to me that is what revival is
all about. Revival is an invasion of God by the Spirit. And if we...if America doesn’t
have one in the next 10 years it is going to be horrible living in this country. Crime is out
of hand now. Immorality abounds. [?] every devilish thing is prospering. First all the
power of the cults. [?] imbalance. So it is inevitable that we have revival.
Paul said, “Would to God you could bear with me in my folly.”1
“And indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy.”2
“For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to
Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so
your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that
cometh preacheth another Jesus...”3
2 Corinthians 11:1
2 Corinthians 11:1-2
2 Corinthians 11:2-4
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“...whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not
received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted...”4
“...ye might well bear with him.”5
Is there another gospel that we are listening to?
[?] gospel? What is that gospel?
Well, in England we used to call it Modernism or you call it Liberalism here, that I mean
the Baptists now for a long time they have had contention about the Bible. Is it the very
word of God? I mean, [?]. And as I say very often, we have revised it, but God never
has. And I still think the King James Version is nearest to the best. And those old
fashioned guys preached it.
I think what it is, we have almost no preachers in America. Everybody is teaching,
teaching, teaching. I think I have 500 tapes in there that people are saying you got 40
tapes in the first month of this year. You must read my interpretation of Revelation. You
must read my story.
2 Corinthians 11:4
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There are at least 50 John the Baptists in the country. So I think they are... if a guy tells
me, “I’m John the Baptist. Have you increased your insurance?”
I say, “Why?” I say, “You are only going to live six months.”
He goes, “Oh, no, no, no.”
But we are not preaching the gospel.
What are we preaching?
Well, there is one...there was two groups. There is one group that is preaching signs and
wonders and all the time. There is another one that says it is love and signs...it is signs
and wonders in God’s name, what did he do for Judas? He saw everything Jesus did and
then look what he did. And what of some of the guys that he had preached about the
Holy Ghost and miracles? Where are they now? One is in jail. The other is in the gutter
comparatively. We have got to get back to the cross.
“I, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men.”6
You get the Emmaus Road...going down the Emmaus Road it says that Jesus opened unto
them the Scriptures. Then he opened their eyes. Then he opened their understanding. But
then you would think after they had...and to read the last chapter in Luke and it says they
saw something there that they sat and talked with Jesus and had breakfast with him. One
of them broke bread and he took...gave him bread and the other one broke a honey comb
and, well, can you imagine you giving Jesus personally honey comb and he puts his hand
out. There is a nail hole through it. And they saw the most astounding miracle in history,
the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. And wait a minute he says, “Come with me.”
And they went to what this and the next most astounding miracle, the ascension of Jesus
into heaven. Couldn’t they live on that? Couldn’t they...?
There isn’t a devil in hell who will ever move us. We had breakfast with Jesus. We talked
with Jesus. We shared a meal with Jesus. Couldn’t you live on that forever?
Jesus says, “No, you can’t.”
“Well, we saw him ascend into heaven. Not many of us, but we saw him.”
The two most outstanding...and yet Jesus says, “Tarry until you be endued.”7
See John 12:32
See Luke 24:49
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You can’t live on the emotion of it. That is the trouble with...that the most horrible thing I
know that happens in evangelism today, we don’t value the human soul. When are we
going to get serious about being serious about the most serious thing in the world, the
birth of people at the altar?
I watched the close of a service in Dallas a few weeks ago. At the end about 15 people
came in four minutes. They said a prayer and gone away. Well, my reaction that, brother,
was this. I can’t get my car through my carwash in four minutes. Can they pass from
death unto life? Can they put off the old man and put on the new man as you use the
figure? Can they get married to Christ in four minutes?
Of course not. In fact when you read Seven Pentecostal Pioneers which everybody
should read because it is still printed, it tells you there that they had one place where they
had meetings for three weeks. And I forget the numbers. Something like 964 people came
and everyone was dealt with personally.
We used to go to a city without money and pitch a tent and stay there 12 weeks. The
churches are still there 60 years after. But everybody came to the altar. If you came I
would come with a Bible at the side of you and ask you what your problem was. If you
wanted to be saved we took you through the Scriptures. If we spent an hour, so what?
I don’t often watch TV. I watched a special. There was a special about three years ago of
all the things that they were going to show on one of the—what do you call them now—
well, it was the special animals, the birth of a giraffe. And I said to Martha, “Well,
darling, I want to see this.”
So anyhow the guy said, “Now, listen. I have already gone through this once, but let me
show you...” And he brought in this female. He said, “Look. Her head is 14 feet from the
ground,” which I thought was a long way. “Now, here is a male. His head is 19 feet from
the ground. Now watch,” and he said, “I have been through this so watch.” And he said,
“We will bring the camera right in front of the giraffe.” He said, “Now, look. She is
spreading her legs at the back. Do you see that black thing hanging? That’s a little baby
and it is going to fall five to six feet, according to the height of the animal, onto a bed of
So what has that got to do with the gospel? It broke my heart. Why? Because I watched
that thing and he said, “Now watch the neck now. You see the thing is coming now.
Now, watch, watch,” he said. “There.” And the thing dropped to the...on to the big bed
of straw. And he said, “Now this takes between three and four hours.” And he said,
“Now, watch.” And the little thing tried to get up and it rolled over. It tried again, it
rolled over. It tried again, it rolled over. It tried up again, it rolled the other way.
“Now watch carefully,” he said. And the next time it tried the mother put a hoof behind
its backside and lifted it up and it stood up. And she turned around and now the...and the
little thing of it. And he said, “That’s almost four hours.”
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So I went to the room to pray and [?] my son. I said, “Danny,” I said, “It takes four hours
to get a baby giraffe born. It doesn’t take four minutes for somebody to get born at our
altars today. Oh, well, [?]. Just a few minutes. Stay a few minutes in God’s name.”
“What do you mean stay a few minutes?”
Was Gethsemane a few minutes? Was the temptation in the wilderness a few minutes?
We are trying to get people...I guarantee that not five percent of people in America and
England are genuinely born again of the Spirit. They are born again of a decision. They
give up a few lousy habits some of them and some of them don’t. They go right back.
And then they will tell you that there is nothing in it.
Dear brother, I was at this certain place I have preached on the new birth. I thought I had
pretty much liberty. And I said, “If any of you want this experience of birth in Christ
come forward and the men come down the aisle and go to the room on the right. Women,
go down on the left. So there were a half a dozen in each group. Well, that was... that
was nine o'clock. And we stayed in that room until 10 helping men. And they were really
broken before God.
Then at 10 o'clock there was a knock on the door and they said, “Come in.” And it was
And he said, “Can I bring this lady in. Will you pray with her?”
I said, “I will if you will stay.” She was a gorgeous looking blonde.
She no sooner hit the ground than she burst in and she said this. “I want to tell you
something Mr. Ravenhill.”
I said, “Well, tell me. I’ll listen.”
She said, “This is the 14th time I have come out for this. I went to a certain Bible school
for three years. We had three revivals in a year and each time I went and I was nine
times.” And she said, “Since them I am [?] before the meeting someone slips their arm
around me and says, ‘Don’t worry, dear. Jesus paid it all. He knows when you have said
you are sorry and that is all that matters.’”
And I said, “That’s not true.” And I said, “We will stay with you while you really get a
real relationship with God.”
So we stayed. And she passed from death to life. How do I know? Because two years
after I was passing the church she was coming out with a Bible and I said to her...he said,
“That’s the woman you prayed for the last time you were here. She is the best Bible
teacher we have.”
The thing was before she got saved and back to Bible school days she got married. She
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got divorced. She had a child. She had a broken heart, a broken life. It would have been
avoided if she had got saved the first time. But she didn’t get saved. She made a mental
decision. She wanted to be better. She wanted to go to heaven.
But how many people really want to know. I mean, isn’t the essence of Christianity
Christ in you the hope of glory? There is not a religion in the world where the man’s
God comes and lives inside of him. We have made it appear as though if you get saved,
of course, you are going to give up all your joys, you give up these crazy habits. You
don’t go to movies, you don’t go to ball games. You...Christ is all you want.
But what on the other hand? What about peace that passes all understanding? What
about a home eternal in the heavens? What about the eternal aspect? We don’t present
I had two fellows in here the other week and they came of a certain...they actually came
[?]. And one of them said immediately, he said literally, “I know how to put a sermon
together. I know how to get words together, but I have no power.”
The other man burst into [?] I have just opened a paper and your preacher is in there. He
said, “Well, I didn’t put it...somebody.”
I said, “But you are a preacher.”
He said, “I have had 300 people saved in the last three months.”
“How do you know?”
And he hadn’t an answer.
“Well,” he said, “I don’t know. I have often wondered. They’ll come out and say a
prayer and go out and live the same.”
I said, “They don’t if they are born again. You become a new creature. “
If any man, anywhere at any time be in Christ and there is no better example of that Dave
Wilkinson with all the people he covers unless...I don’t know if you know Jackie [?]. Do
you know Jackie? Well, she was here to see me. And I mean she goes...she is with God
until 10 o'clock at night. She goes to the gutters. She goes to the outcast. She goes to the
prostitutes. She goes to men that have smoked opium for 50 years. She goes to women
that have prostituted for 40 years. You have got to have a gospel. You can’t give a
mental flip to this people.
And she stays with them until they are born again of the Spirit of God. That’s one of the
most amazing works in the world as far as I am concerned. But where are the people? I
mean you [?] the people who have made a profession of Christ in the last few years at our
crusades and everybody here [?] a veteran mission from South America and he said,
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“Before I came up, brother Ravenhill, I was talking to a veteran missionary and he said,
‘Brother, if you add up all the crusades in South America and all the people...everybody
in South America has been saved five times in the last 15 years.”
Well, is it the same in this country? Are we so far...how many people came to the
meeting? How many people came forward? Why aren’t the churches increasing?
I had a lawyer call me from one of the greatest churches in the country, say, “Mr.
Ravenhill, if 1000 people walk down the aisle in our church every year and after three
years of doing that,” he said, “the church is still the same size. We still have the same
seating capacity. The prayer meetings haven’t grown. There is no evidence except hat
these people come forward every Sunday.”
Why haven’t they?
As I said to you earlier, dear brother, the darkness of this day is the gift of the church, the
world. The street meetings are gone. Dear God, we have all kinds of ministries around
here, but [?] goes to hell.
How many churches do you have and mega churches in Dallas? I guess you can’t find
one street. I spent 50 years of my life in street meetings. Every Saturday night I went out
at 9:30 until midnight and after every night for...whether it was snowing or raining or
what. We went out to the same place and people came out of taverns and out of movie
houses at 10 o'clock and stayed an hour and two hours in the cold, not air conditioned
buildings, no nice, no attractive singers, just [?] one man said this. His friend was in jail.
This friend used to run around with women. This man has a prison record. This man over
there used to beat his wife and they are transformed. This girl was a prostitute. And put
them out, living flesh and blood. Nobody could argue.
People would stand and say, “Why are you the only preacher in town [?]?”
I don’t know except God told me to do it and I do it. Well, that’s where the lost people
are. A man would be an idiot to buy a hundred dollar fishing gear and fish in his bathtub.
And that’s all we are doing in church. We are fishing with the same people every week
and people are dying without God.
I am glad, David, that I was raised in a church where we had a...I know the preachers are
often boarding. I devoured the Methodist hymnbook 80 years ago. And I can recite still
dozens and dozens of hymns. And one was penned by Andrew Bonar.
Go, labor on: spend, and be spent,
Thy joy to do the Father's will:
It is the way the Master went;
Should not the servant tread it still?
Men die in darkness at your side,
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Without a hope to cheer the tomb;
Take up the torch and wave it wide,
The torch that lights time's thickest gloom.
I go to the prayer meetings. Somebody will pray that. After that somebody will pray the
prayer of one of the greatest of modern women there from India, what was her name?
Yeah, thank you. Amy Carmichael. You know,
Give me a love that leads the way,
A faith that nothing can destroy,
A hope no disappointment tire,
A passion that will burn like fire,
Let me not sink to be a clod;
The woman is way over 100 pounds.
Make me Thy tool, O, flame of God.
She never married. She took a one way ticket to the mission field. People go now. There
is plenty of money now. It says, “Oh, we’d love you to come back for Christmas and
Thanksgiving. Do come back.” So they break up and come back. They go back. They
run to and fro. They have to go with their camera. They have to go with their load of
stuff. You don’t find the old fashioned missionaries going like they used to do.
Jackie went on a single ticket to Hong Kong when she was 19. She is 44 now. She is still
there. She has shed a million tears, but she has had some of the greatest characters
infamous characters saved there. How many people come forward in your church and you
can go back afterwards and say, “When you came to the altar, now, what happened in
I think that everybody that comes to the altar we should visit them during the week and
be sure that they did pass from death unto life because what happens? They say, “Well, I
have been out twice and I never got anything.”
Well, they can’t. [?] mentally. I don’t see any brokenness. I see kids come forward in a
crusade. They are laughing and joining hands. They go out. And the first thing they do is
stop at a hot dog place or something. They don’t go home to grieve and read the Word
and find out if it is true. They go back full of jollity and they sing on the verse. We had a
wonderful time. But what are we doing?
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The summer is gone.
The harvest is past.
The harvest is past and we are not saved.8
Is that what you are saying?
Yeah, what I am saying, dear brother. I don’t believe that we have reached the conscience
like some people like one of the classic things [?] used to quote to me often he would say,
“Well, Len, remember when our famous American preacher D.L. Moody went to
London. The first day he preached [?] in his Yankee clothes. The second day they
laughed at his style. The third day the Cambridge University men were there laughing at
his clothes.” And he said, “Len, they can laugh at my style, laugh at my Americanism.”
But he said, “In God’s name, don’t laugh at the Word of God.” He says, “The Word that I
would just as soon handle fault lightning.”
What has happened? Here is an illicit man. He had comparatively no education. He goes
to London. He goes to London to [?] Alexander White was the king of the pulpit at that
time. And Alexander White sits on the edge of his seat with his mouth open. “Where
does this man go?”
He doesn’t know his history too well. Those books [?] correctly, but it is something about
it, so much so that across town there is a [?] book called...no a book written by Henry
Drummond, The Greatest Thing in the World. It is one of the greatest classics ever. And
Alexander White says to [?], “Come over and hear this fellow. We haven’t had an
evangelist like this.” And they were spellbound.
What would have happened if he had gone to London for three days? In the end he went
for eight months. He went to Scotland and there is still the....the tent hall is still there
at...I think they call it a tent hall because people came out to the tent that Moody had and
went to that hall also that one of the greatest Bible schools ever, Glasgow Bible Institute
was founded because of that. And the money was given to him.
Well, I’ll tell you. You talk about background. One of the most wonderful men I ever
saw was C.T. Studd. Well, C.T. Studd’s daddy used to buddy with the King of England.
See Jeremiah 8:20
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When I used to...I used to do in World War II, I went to one of the largest air force camps
in the nation and [?] off a hill and to the right in the moonlight I could see this [?] where
C.T. used to live with a private race course. Well, C.T.’s daddy went to London and
mixed up with all the society. And he had about this Yankee preacher. Well, let’s go.
Well, when he got there somebody asked the man to pray while...what do you call him
now? While Moody is on the platform then a priest...they sang the hymn and said,
“Pray.” This guy went on and on. And Moody jumped up and said, “Let’s sing a song
while this fellow finishes.”
So immediately they were happy. You know, the guy wasn’t trying to [?]. Well, they
listened and C.T.’s...I think his father got saved there and as a result [?] three most
famous cricketrers in England. C.T. was the Babe Ruth of English city, cricket. Well,
they went and the whole society [?] about went. Well, C.T. joined up with the chaotic six.
They formed the Cambridge Seven and went to China.
I mean there is all kinds of things happened out of that. One revival, I mean they
literally...man, they didn’t care if he laughed at his clothes and everything. And they
Well, nothing happened like that until the 1920s or 26 or something like that when
George Jeffries went to whole crusades in England and Steven Jeffries’ are greater works
than that. And they go to a town without a penny and believe God to fill an auditorium
with 3000 people in a week and they did it. And they weren’t great expositors.
Brother Ravenhill, in Jeremiah the prophet says, “Thus saith the Lord...”
“Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths.”9
“...where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they
said, We will not walk therein.”10
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Well, going back, brother Larry, I said we have turned out the lights in the street. We
have no more street meetings. We have turned the light out Sunday night. Many churches
don’t have a Sunday night meeting. Wednesday night, that is the biggest tragedy. People
say, “Don’t you think we should get the Bible back in school?”
They say, “That’s on the first form. We get it back in the home.”
Why don’t...how many people. I mean, ask the deacons in your church. Ask the pastor,
“how many of you have family worship?”
They don’t have it. And so they suffer [?] they have to go and get on TV and leave it till
the kiddies go to bed. Thy don’t know the Word of God.
I had a man here and his daughter came to bring me some mail and she is 14. I said,
“Well, dearie. How much Scripture have you memorized?”
“Oh, I haven’t memorized any.”
I said, “Can you memorize the 10 Commandments?”
She couldn’t say the 10 Commandments.
Two days after a young guy came. He lives across town and he has seven children. The
eldest boy is 13. He has memorized every word of every chapter in the Proverbs. And the
other boy is 10 and he has memorized 12 chapters of Proverbs, every word. The man
gets up with his wife at four to 4:30 in the morning. They have an hour together with the
Word of God. They get the children up just after five and then teach them the Word of
God in prayer. And then their kids are allowed to rest. And then the mother teaches and
the rest of the day she is home schooling them. How they do it, I don’t know. But those
little kids are walking Bibles.
We don’t know the Word of God.
Two things we don’t know. In fact, I say to the seminary men, “Do you know God?”
“Well, I didn’t...”
“No, No. I asked...answer yes or no.”
“Oh, I learned Hebrew.”
“I didn’t ask you if you know Hebrew. Do you know God?”
Page 15 of 47
You ask 10 young people in your church to answer in less than 50 words why did Jesus
come into the world? To save us from hell. To save us from sin. And so they go on. But
is Jesus saying in John 17:3? “That they might know thee the only true God.”11
And that’s yes. But we don’t know God. If we knew God we would set the world on
fire. If we knew God we wouldn’t beg for money.
We know things about God, but we don’t God.
We don’t know God.
What I wanted to tell you then, in 1932 I preached in Swansea, South Wales in a little
upper room. And there was a lady there with whit hair and she said, “Do you know my
I said, “I didn’t know your husband.”
She said, “Well, my husband is Major Russell.”
I said, “Well, who is Major Russell?”
“In the British army?”
“No, Salvation Army.”
She said, “Will you come out? Come out and have a meal with us?”
And I said, “Well, this is a crusade.” And I said to her, “Dear, I only have Friday off.” I
said, “I’ll take the bus and come up.” The place was called Rivina. “I’ll come up Friday
She said, “Well, come and have some tea and we will talk.”
So here is a gray haired fellow sitting and I said to him, “Well, it is a privilege to come
and talk with you. How old are you?”
He said, “Well, I’m 82.” And he said, “I’ll tell you some things that when you are my
I said, “I’ll never live to 82.” And I am 84 now and I am nearly 85.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2008/9/30 22:41||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: Man of God - Interview of Leonard Ravenhill (transcript)|
Page 16 of 47
But he shared the office with William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army.
I said, What were the days like?
Days like heaven on earth. He said, God the Holy Ghost came. And he mentioned a
certain place which is on the strand in London. He said, Now it is a theater. In those
days it was a hall you hired and movies werent and house and theaters werent open on
Sundays so you could rent them on Sundays. So he used to rent them Saturday and
Sunday. And he said, he said, I had been in that meeting. He said, People wont
believe you when you tell them that I was... Well, it was 1932 so it is almost 60 years
And he said, When you tell it, they wont believe it.
I said, Whether they believe you or not, tell me. I said, I want to know. I dont care if
it puts my nose in the ground. I dont care what you say as long as you realize that this is
your link with the past. At my age of 82 Ill be a link with another generation that
doesnt know God.
So he said, Well, Ill tell you what happened. He said, William Booth could preach
like nobody else from Jeremiah. The harvest is past, the summer is ended.12 Oh, his
favorite was... And he had a gruff voice [?] which meant [?] Hallelujah so they all go
Hallelujah. And he said that William Booth could either get men trembling he said. He
said, As a matter of fact. Do give him a hymnbook of maybe 25 pages and they would
sit with it on this lap and shred and it while they were...they were so disturbed. He said,
You could see where these men had been. All the back pews were full of shredded
hymnbooks. The same thing happened in 1926. I taught with...I taught with the greatest
revivalist the highlands ever had, W.P. Nicholson. He said, Brother Len, he said,
People used to shred the hymnbooks when we they listened. They were under
conviction. They were so nervous. And sweat would run off their noses and that doesnt
happen any more.
Anyhow, going back to this. He said that old Willy would preach hell fire boys. And he
could make you shake. And he said, But he couldnt make an altar call. So he would
say, Now, come to the mercy seat. Come to the mercy. Come, run for your life. You are
going to hell. And he couldnt [?] he would shout out, Where is [?] Where is [?]?
Well, Commissioner [?] was one of the stalwarts of the Salvation Army and [?]. And he
said he was under the platform. And would come out and he used to hand clothes to each
of them, you know, like somebody gave me your suit, it would be hanging down on me.
And Commissioner [?] coat was down to his ankles. But he said he would come out on all
fours and do this. There would be a cloud of dust and then [?] would begin to make an
appeal. You know, Come to the mercy seat. And he said, The altar will be lined.
Page 17 of 47
And sometimes they wouldnt come. He said the gentlemen would turn around and roar
at us, you know. Hey.
What does everybody do now, friend? And usually there was a break. But they said this
day they prayed and nothing happened. So he said again, Pray. And he said everybody
Hey, what was happening to the old boy. He is angry, he is angry.
Oh, lets pray. They said, Lord, Lord, move right now. Move right now.
And he said nobody came forward. So a third time he drew, you know, Get hold of
God. He said, This meeting is going to go to hell. These people are perishing. Some of
them are wealthy. Some are poor. Some are ignorant. Some are backslidden. Pray.
And he said, The holy Ghost will take of men on the backseat and let them moderate
over the congregation and drop them at the altar.
[?] Pentecost [?] run for the door, you say, spiritism or something. I sat there. There was
an unwritten law in the Salvation Army. They called their churches a corps, you know,
like the army doesC-O-R-P-Scorps. And it was an unwritten lawn in the Salvation
Army that when you finished your street meeting at nine o'clock Saturday night you go to
pray until midnight.
And he said to me, We have men that would pray and one old man in particular would
say...he would jump up and [?] victory, victory. There will be 10 tomorrow. And he
said, There will be nine or 10 saved. Or he would say there would be 15. There would
be 13. There were 14. He said, It was only willing to try every time. But he said,
Remember, we had street meetings. We got baptized. We got rotten eggs.
In those days there were...no houses with bathrooms. The kept what they called a parlor
pot under the bed and they didnt always have, you know, people run out and throw it
from the window and throw urine on them. And he said, We kept two coats. You kept
an old one with eggs. And you went home and scraped them on and then you put you
Sunday best on. And he said, That... He said, Who cares when there is revival?
As I said to you, you dont have to advertise a fire. Colonel Gringle was the biggest
auditor in America and I dont know who it was. It was a multi millionaire has offered to
build him the biggest church in America and give him the biggest salary if he would stay.
He said, I am going to London.
Because there was a fire.
Page 18 of 47
There was a man called William Booth. He was a Methodist. They got rid of him. And he
is having revival. And he went in that revival. And he gathered all kinds of people to him.
But [?] but they had a [?]. You went in a prayer meeting. You know, you felt the glory
and the majesty of God. And now you dont do that. Like I was with a teen not long ago
where before the meeting at night I went in the side room and they had hot tea and cold
tea and drinks and food and everything and trivia talking and stayed up there to [?].
How do you suddenly turn off and suddenly become spiritual? We travel the country, but
I walked the length of England. I walked the breadth of England with five college
fellows. We slept in fields at night. We slept in churches. We didnt get a penny wage in
six months. And nobody every said a word because at night we would kneel in the street
at 10 and 11 o'clock at night and people get saved in the street. You dont care at all
where you sleep. We slept in sleeping bags for three years, slept on the floor of churches
anywhere they would take us in. But we have revival. The churches are still standing
But not I go to a meeting and everybody is civil and nice to see you. And they want to
talk. I say, Leave me alone.
We went, brother, we had a solid hour pr prayer together, 11 o'clock to 12 in the morning
and then a bit of a rest in the afternoon and mostly went to prayer. And then we had a
prayer meeting one hour before the night service, went on the platform charged with the
power of God and full of expectation and faith.
And night by night the elders wee lined with people. They dont do that today. We have
got this song so she is number one on the charts. We have got so and so. And it is
humanism. We are depending on something we have. I mean you attract...you go to one
charismatic meeting you have been to them all. You stand and sing for 30, 40 minutes.
We try to work something up and God has to send something down.
I can remember, dear brother, when you went to a holiness meeting in England or a
Pentecostal. There were more people at the altar before the service than after. I used to
fear going when I was 14. I used to go. My daddy used to take me to a Pentecostal
meeting and the whole roared [?] and they would be praying with energy and crying to
God. One old man, particularly would say, Come, Lord, and walk in our midst.
I used to think, I hope he doesnt because I am scared to death he would.
But God used to come in the meetings. And then at the end they didnt have to beg and
sing emotional songs, Theres Room at the Cross. Forget it. There is room on the
cross. Forget there was room at the cross. Get on the cross. And as Tozer said a man
going down the road with a cross, you know one thing about it. He wasnt coming back.
Hard people dont want to die. There is only two kinds of people in the world. Those
who are dead to sin and those who are dead in sin and we are either one of the two.
Page 19 of 47
In fact, you talk about victory, theyll laugh at you. Oh, you cant live in victory. Well,
then why dont you be a Buddhist or somebody?
What do you do with somebody that says, Look, I dont just want to get saved...I want to
be pure in heart?
You cant be pure in heart.
Who says so?
One of the ladys books off the press says you cant. Who cares a hill of beans? What
does the Word of God say?
What did Jesus say to the bad woman that came to him? Go and sin less? He says that to
a woman who has been spending [?] before the cross. What does Paul say? [?] less? [?]
What we need in America, dear brother, is more than ever we need people to go forth in
the new birth message. Forget all about [?]. For get all about miracles and signs and [?]
not happening anyhow. Lets get back to real genuine conversion. Why, most of our
kids, our teenagers, they go to a...they go to a Christian camp. Well, Christian camps [?]
I mean, [?] one of the few men I really respected a little, he came from India and he came
through Hawaii. So he went to American English Bible school there.
What do you think of it?
He says, Well, the girls shorts were so bad when they came toward me I was disgusted.
When they went the other way it was worse.
So he said to the world famous leader, You have no dress code here.
He said, What do you mean?
He said, Well, the girls come towards me, he said, You cant tell their shorts from [?].
When they go the other way they are terrible.
Page 20 of 47
And the reply he got from the famous leader was as long as their cheeks are not showing
they are all right. So either girls backsides can be showing...you cant even not preach
holiness. You cant preach modesty these days. [?] back to the old way. They go [?] and
some of the meetings around here.
They will have two missionary groups go to wet and wild. Well, why do guys want to
stand with half naked women, women in bikinis or as near as they can to that?
I had a man came to see me a few weeks ago and he said...he had been to a ministry near
here and he said, I went to the meeting last night and it was very good. I enjoyed it. But
then he said, This morning they said they were meeting at the swimming pool. They
said there was my wife. For the first time in her life, my five children saw their mother
almost naked standing in the pool and I realized this is not for me. And he left it.
Another man left right after. And he said, We...if you cant have modesty, where can
you have it?
And they dont want to pray. They have no appetite for prayer. But the old Salvation
Army thrived on prayer. They greatest revivals in history, Shangtung Revival
when...what was there? Munson was there and the woman that died last year at 100 years
old. Bertha Smith was the Southern Baptist. She was born again. She [?] with the Holy
Ghost in that revival. And they expected God to move in phenomenal ways. They didnt
advertise. You dont have to advertise it. What we need is God in the midst.
If God is in the midst a lot of our stuff would never take place. Just like God can...his
very presence. That happened in the Welsh Revivla. You know when you go to revival
now the big guy gets up. They sing. Then Bev Shea, somebody is going to sing. Then
something else and it is all programmed before hand. How can God come in?
But one of the things that I...as I said I went with that man who...that Welshman who
went through the revival with William Booth. But then I said, Well, about the Welsh
They said, Ill tell you what happened in the Welsh revival. He said, I was with
William Booth in his office. We were having meetings in London. And somebody sent
me a note, my wife. Revival has broken out. There is a young man in his 20s [?] and he
is packing everywhere he goes. He wont even let them publicize him. He wont let them
put his picture in the paper. Theyll just announce he is coming to Swansea and every
church in town is filled because they dont know where he is going.
So he said, Well, I knew I had...Friday afternoon I had...I could leave Friday afternoon.
And that Saturday three...and come back Sunday and get to the office on Monday
morning. So he said, I went there. The meeting was crowded. And in one meeting
Evan Roberts comes in and there is 800 people which isnt big for America, but there it is
the largest hall in town. And Evan walks down to the front seat, sits down, bows his head
and prayed for three hours. Our people walked out.
Page 21 of 47
But then he stood up for 15 minutes [?] dont like it in your life. The Holy Ghost came
upon him and he was a big man. When he prayed God just came down. And so he
jumped in the audience. And that happened more than once.
But he said, Once [?] that young man. And, of course the Welsh can sing like nobody
on earth. Guide me oh, thou great Jehovah. These are the great hymns. And he said,
At the end of the meeting, he said, [?] the end of the meeting [?] He just...after he had
prayed for three hours and spoke for 50 minutes he went out at 10 o'clock at night. And
he prayed the whole night for the anointing for the next day.
Our guys dont do that. They go and sit and talk and say silly jokes. We want to be
spiritual [?], spiritual [?] hot and cold, all out for God, all out for the cowboys. And God
And you have done it for 25 years, why not quit and start something different.
Ok. So then he said, I said, the first day, boy, he said, I was hooked. Here is this
young man preaching like nobody had ever preached in my life, praying as nobody had
prayed and tears. And he said, I listened the first day, thought, well, I can still get the
train overnight and get back to my office Monday morning. But, boy, he said, Sunday
nigh was better so I stayed the next day. And then I thought, well, I am in trouble
anyhow. The general will be after me. Oh, no, no, no, because I can use this other day as
my day off for this week.
And he kept bargaining with himself like that. And he goes home on Saturday, Friday
night, goes in the office. He said William Booth just turned around and said, Russell,
where have you been? You know, barked at me.
And he said, he said it quietly, General, I have been to heaven.
You have been where?
I have been to heaven.
What do you mean you have been to heaven.
He said, Sir, the Spirit of God is on a man in Wales, a young man, almost without [?] he
hasnt been to a Salvation Army college, but God is upon him. He has been in hiding for
13 years. Dear God, he is only 26 years of age and he prayed for 13 years.
I say to preachers when I get a chance. I say, Listen. You say I need a vacation.
You dont need...you need a cave. Can you go for three...soon you cant go for three
hours without turning TV on. You think you need grace to pull down strongholds. You
need grace to stop TV. Thats the devilish thing that is just...it is not the devil. It is your
Page 22 of 47
Anyhow he said, the general said, Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it.
And he said [?] and I told him how God had worked and he said there is no begging
people. They come and rush to the scene and cry and he said the police are not arresting
anybody. The judges are not...the courts are closed. The taverns are closed. There are
prayer meetings at the coal mine. They used to take a little tin, you know, with the what
do you call it? A food tin you take. And they put it up in their lap. You are only a little
tired. And they [?] before they start working. And then they spend the rest of the time
praying [?] or singing in the coal mines.
And he said, I went on to tell him what miracles were being done. He said, The general
put his finger up. He said, Remember, Russell. He said, In the very early days, in the
very first days of the Salvation Army it was just like that. The glory of the Lord came
down. We are getting too commercial. We are getting too mechanical. We will have to go
back to the glory of the Lord in the same way.
And all that the Bible says is, Pray without ceasing.13 It doesnt say preach without
ceasing. It doesnt say do miracles. It says pray. And one nigh somebody may ask me if
I know you fellows. Well, Ill say, Well, I met them, but I dont know anybody until I
have prayed with him. I dont care who he is.
And I notice [?] but I havent prayed with them so I dont know them.
Now once a man opens his heart and it is one thing for us to stand between, stand before
God on behalf of people. It is a vain thing to stand before God on behalf of people that
stand before God and tell him [?] on behalf of God as I quoted the other day to some
people. Was it about the 32nd chapter of Exodus where Moses has been on the mountain
and God says, Let me alone.14
I said, That is God saying to a man, leave me alone.
I said, Does God ever say that to you? I said, It is wonderful when a man lays hold of
God. It is a wonderful thing, in one sense, when a man lays hold of God. But when God
lays hold of a man and God says, Let me alone and I will utterly destroy this people.
But are we not there?
John Wesley preached on Romans 8:16 more than anything else for the witness of the
Spirit. But when I want the Spirit to bear witness I am walking in holiness. I want you to
bear witness. I am speaking to [?]. I said go and borrow his language in Romans nine
where Paul said, I call the Holy Ghost to bear witness that I lie not.15 Can the Holy
1 Corinthians 5:17
See Romans 9:1
Page 23 of 47
Ghost bear witness? I said in essence, what Paul says there, I will be damned if need be.
If only you will rend the heavens and come down.16
And I said, You keep praying again as Isaiah 64. Oh that thou wouldest rend the
And God shoots back, Rend your hearts and not your garments.18
[?] one hour prayer meeting. Make it a life style. I used to...I told the deacons at the last
church. It happened in England. I said, Listen, I will take the church on this condition.
Number one, that you meet with me at least a half hour to 40 minutes before every
service. Number two, you abolish offerings so we dont have to beg from the poor
people. And then meet with me Friday night nine o'clock until midnight.
We did and God turned that church around. And I dont know any ministry that has had
the same time in prayer.
Have you read George Burns at all?
No, George Burns. Have you read Robert Murray McCheyne?
Well, Murray McCheyne [?] of his church in...anyhow it is on the coast of Scotland,
Aberdeen, Scotland. Well, he was the man that prayed and wept and prayed and wept and
prayed and wept until his health went. So he went to be a missionary. He was a brilliant
man in Hebrew and he went to [?] rest in what was Israel then or Palestine. And while he
was there W.C. Burns came in the church and the Holy Ghost was upon him because he
spent days and weeks in prayer. And the whole town was wrought with revival. The
whole city was moved. And they have been in revival before or since [?] revival.
See Isaiah 64:1
See Joel 2:13
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2008/9/30 22:46||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
Page 24 of 47
So anyhow W.C. Burns had this tremendous move of God and we would book him up to
London and book him up from Manchester. Oh, the annoying thing is [?] let the guy go
out of that. Well, God picked that man up, dear brother, and took him to China and
dropped him in China and he died unknown. [?] Pentecost. Go and pray. And he went
and prayed and fasted and wept and [?] so what happened. After him Jonathan Goforth
Mrs. Goforth says they would go to a meeting in the morning at nine and stand and sing
and praise God. And they would still be praising him at five o'clock. Nobody sat down
even though they were tired. You go the next day. There have been those thinking it will
be prayer the whole the day. You go the next day there is neither singing nor praying the
whole day and the quietness [?] and she said the quietness was more productive than the
I told the people will be forgotten, how to be quiet, Be still, and know that I am God.19
Is as real as be filled with the Spirit.
Anyhow, Jonathan Goforth went and all ground was broken up and teared, tear stained
like W.C. Burns. Jonathan Goforth went. After him came Watchman Nee and I dont
know if you read the life of [?] that is the most fabulous thing I have read outside the
New Testament. When I quoted him as being the most distinguished scholar, foreign
scholar that came to America, he learned English. He learned German and did his Ph.D.
in German. He took his B.A. degree, his M.A. degree and learned a new language. He
took his doctorate in three and a half years. And finally he went to Union Theological
Seminary in New York and when he was there the young man said to him, You look
more like a preacher than like a scientist.
Well, five different nations begged him to come on their payroll and be their leader in
nuclear fission, even those years ago. And he refused them.
Well, to cut a long story short, one night he knelt down. He said, Well, Lord, my daddy
is a Methodist preacher. Now, I am not born again. I dont know God. And right there
God came upon him. He jumped up, opened the door, rand down the corridor in Union
Theological Seminary and actually leaping and praising God. The next day they said he
had gone insane and put him in the white...in an institution. And there the Lord said to
him, I can get you out of here. But he is staying...I forget the number, like 195 days I
will teach you my way. And he learned, dear brother, how to analyze a chapter eight
And then he went back to China. He threw all his diplomas overboard in the China Sea
and he began his ministry, married the girl that the neighbor had said they would marry
when they were kids.
Page 25 of 47
To cut a long story short I was preaching a meeting that I called to the story and a big
oversized woman at the organ, she had been playing [?]. So afterwards she said, Well,
that was a lovely meeting.
I said, I noticed you were weeping. I said, That story of...that story of [?] did you hear
She said, No, Mr. Ravenhill. I used to play his many meetings in revival in China.
I said, Well, did I exaggerate.
She said, You couldnt exaggerate that man. Doesnt matter what you say. But she
said, Ill tell you one thing, that I went after he died and he died as a young man. He
died of tuberculosis. She said, He would come from a meeting at night and he never did
like the others. He didnt get western clothes and he wanted an American jacket and a
white shirt. He just had a few [?] on his shoulder, a lock of hair that fell down. And she
said, He stayed in the home of a friend of mine and he would leave a half door open,
you know, to get the air. And she said, They would come in after the meeting and his
shirt sticking to his back and he would be eating like a dog. And this lady said to him,
[?] of all the preachers that we have had in this country, I have never seen a man like [?].
he lives and moves and has his being in God. She said, He comes home every night
sobbing and weeping and he his shirt stuck to his back.
And she said, One Scripture only leaps from my mind when I see him.
She said, Whats that?
This is my body which is broken for you.20
And she said, That was where he lived. He didnt tell other people to live there. But he
lived economically and he lived all the time.
Well, this book is written [?]. China Inland Mission published it. And if you see [?] it is
worth $1000. I mean I have tried to [?] men that like that have lived, moved and had their
being in God. They arent failures. There is all kinds of failure. I could...in fact right now
I should be in Australia with a team that will go on to Hong Kong and China and
everywhere. But the thing is there is a hunger now. Young men in this country have
never seen revival. They have never seen meetings that go on until two or three in the
morning, people that wont go home. Or if they do go home say, I cant hear. I cant
turn on my TV. I am so hungry for God. I am so tired of my neighbors go to hell.
[?] my daughter comes home and tells me she is pregnant. My son came home. He is on
drugs. There is all kinds of messing even amongst believers. Even amongst the pastors
children. So we need to rediscover the value of the human soul. Our people need to be
1 Corinthians 11:24
Page 26 of 47
taught what repentance is, what the atonement is what forgiveness is, what pardon is,
what justification is, what the witness is. They dont know.
They want to kneel down and in five minutes pass from death to life and make them a full
It cant happen.
Jackie Bullinger was here and we were talking about people being converted. She said,
Well, a man knocked on my door recently and I went and I said... Well, lets call him
Bill. That wasnt his name.
Oh, Bill, come in.
No, no, Miss Jackie. I have been a bad boy. I left you 13 years ago. You took me in. I
was a drug addict. I was a drunkard. I was a fighter. I was a bad man. And I got saved. I
was filled with Spirit and spoke in tongues. But then I just went to the devil. The devil
took me. I left my wife and child. I took another woman. I have been in and out of...
She said, I know I have seen your record in the newspaper.
But he said, I have been wicked for almost 13 years. I have done everything
shamelessly. But three months ago in my prison cell Jesus came to me. And I was saved
again. And he has restored me now at his feast, at his joy.
But, he said, Miss Jackie, I want to tell you that every night for the last three months I
have wept two to three hours every night. And she thought she would come to him.
She said, Well, Bill, you dont need to do that. Your sin is under the blood.
I am not worried about my sins.
What are you worried about?
I am worried about the fact that for 13 years I have denied God the right to use my
tongue and use my heat and use my mind and use my thinking, he said, And I am
She said, Thats the best case of repentance I ever heard.
Why this one isnt just saying, I did these lousy things. But, I denied God the right.
What could I have been if I had been...what would [?] be if he hadnt messed his life? I
mean he might have been a new deliverer for this nation. But the devil got him and now
he is arrogant. He says, It is no business of yours.
He said, Tell me when he said that.
Page 27 of 47
Two weeks ago.
The audience stood up and clapped. They gave him a standing ovation. He will gather
thousands of people living in adultery and devilry. They dont care. I just hope God
I mean if I were God I would cut the guy off. He has had his second chance. I didnt
even get a second chance. Judas didnt get a second chance. Why does [?]
But we are in that day now when sin doesnt mean much to us. I mean we [?], but what
does Jesus do? He, too should [?]
I said, [?] I dont understand this. In fact, I wrote to a friend at two o'clock this morning
where...what...is it 2 Corinthians three says, the fire shall try every mans word?21 And
whats...not what size it is, but what sort it is. And then...
But the thing that bowls me over. Maybe you fellows can help me. Maybe I will try to go
out [?] today. I am never serious about this.
Actually, I think it is 1 Corinthians.
Yeah, 1 Corinthians three, thats right.
1 Corinthians three, is it?
See 1 Corinthians 3:13
Page 28 of 47
Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it.22 Well, lets not
put it in a nutshell.
Dear brothers, when you and I go to the judgment we are not going to have our passports
checked. We are going to have our baggage checked. What have been collecting all our
lives? [?] ok. Look at verse 13. Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day
shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every mans
work of what sort [not what size] it is.23
Now, If any mans work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a
Now look at this 15th verse. If any mans work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but
he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.25
Now look at verse 17. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy.26
Now what did he do? God is going to destroy that man.
[?] ever think he would stand before five billion people or you and I will with all the
archangels there, all the apostles of the New Testament, all the prophets of the Old
Testament gazing on me when God reads my record out? We have lost sight of the
judgment. If we had begun every meeting in the light of the judgment we would be
prostrate before the end of the service. You wouldnt think about running out to turn the
lousy TV off.
The early Pentecostal meetings mother used to go eight in the morning and stay until five
or six at night. They had a meal on the grounds particularly in America. And then have
an afternoon session and an evening session, have three or four sermons. I [?] to go to
that. But this is...none of this answers my question. Him shall God destroy, not his record
be destroyed, but he shall be destroyed.
How can a man mix with a harlot when he knows his body is the temple of the Holy
Ghost and that is holy in his head? I mean the body is a temple.
They say, oh, so many think two men... Five years ago had the world at their feet. Sin is
[?] because when God called him to evangelize the world in the first place that song, he
sent in nobody to [?].
David Wilson went to him two years before that mess up. He went to Fiji two years
before and told them. And they wouldnt listen to him. So [?] they have no friends. They
were so arrogant. They began a law unto themselves. Nobody would dare correct them.
1 Corinthians 3:13
1 Corinthians 3:14
1 Corinthians 3:15
1 Corinthians 3:17
Page 29 of 47
They wouldnt listen to counsel. They got utter [?] as they say in the world. They got on a
roll. Strikers taking three million a week in. I hear he still takes in a million, a million a
But where is the power? I am not looking for a modern Elijah. I am looking for a kind of
a hundred Elijahs in different areas to [?]. We have had all the other...
Would you respond to this passage of Scripture from Isaiah in light of what you have
seen? In Isaiah 29 verse 13 it says, Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people
draw near me...27
...with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far
...and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:29
Their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men.30
It has all been watered down. I mean dont fear...I mean...
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Is man teaching us the fear of God and not the Spirit of God teaching us the fear of God?
Yeah, but, I mean, you go the, again, the more I have read the last month of Noah, I just
think I have read the Bible with my eyes closed before. He was moved with fear. Did he
think...what do you think happened, dear brother? The first 10 years after he told those
people he was building the ark.
Dont cut that tree down. Adam used to know that tree. What are you doing, ruining
the country side cutting your trees down? What are you doing all lying there?
And he got his family with him that were wonderful. I mean they werent 17 and 18 year
old kids. They must have been 100 years old. But anyhow, the fact is after 10 years they
said, Listen, you old fool. There used to be a man going that my grandpa says an old
man went up and down there with a light [?] with his hands raised to heaven.
Remember. They had never seen a Bible. They had never seen a priest. They had never
seen an altar. They had never seen a sacrifice. And yet Enoch walks up and down,
doesnt care a hill of beans. And God made a hole in the sky and he saw something that
hasnt happened yet. The Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.31
We think gentle Jesus, meek and mild is coming. Forget it. Everybody likes that. And
Charles Wesley wrote it. What about [?] Lo, he comes with [?]? When he comes he is
going to be terrible in his majesty. Nobody is going to jump on his knee say, Poppa, I
have come to see you.
Forget it. We are going to...I mean if John fell at his feet as dead and John used to lay his
head on his bosom. What are you and I going to do? But we dont live in that realm. We
dont live in the realm of the Spirit. We live in the realm of reason. And we have
reasoned, Oh, God is a loving God. He doesnt send judgment. He does. He is going to
I think we are heading for the next...unless a miracle happens we will have a financial
crisis within three years, a bankruptcy which they knew something.
But on the other hand, I dont believe that if we had two earthquakes and one went north
to south and the America is in four pieces that people would repent. They only repent
when conviction of sin comes. You cant deny the Holy Ghost his office. When he is
coming he will convict of sin and righteousness and judgment to come.32
We dont live in that area. I mean, nobody expects Jesus to come today. They say they
do, but if they do [?] and him purified. It doesnt say when he is come he will give us 24
hours notice. If we are in purity he will call us. If we are impurity he wont call us.
See Acts 24:25
Page 31 of 47
Well, we should be like him, not another hour after he comes, not a day after. But that
very moment and I am not walking in the will of God in known purity I dont believe we
will be taken. It doesnt matter if you are the pastor of the biggest church in town and 10
times as big as Billy Graham. It wont make any difference. All our ideas are perverted
There is not much meekness. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.33
Oh, dear God, where is the meekness anymore?
Oh, we have the biggest church in town. We are on so many radio stations. Oral Roberts
used to say that. Swaggert said it. So has he got them.
God is a jealous God.
Paul said, For such are false apostles.34
...transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.36
2 Corinthians 11:13
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And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is
no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
Ministers of righteousness, but ministers of Satan.
Dont you think that like when you talk to some people about victory in...
Oh, well, my righteousness as filthy rags.
I say, Well, get saved.
What does John say? He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is
I mean you cant be partly...I mean there are no degrees in purity. There are degrees in
life and no degrees in death. A man is dead. This man isnt...he is injured. He is
incapacitated. He has a man problem, a physical. But you preach Christian perfection
they laugh at you these days. Purity. They just scorn.
But he did say, [he] hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.38
And Paul writes to the...or Peter, in his first epistle, ye have purified your hearts by
As I said to the congregation, you are just as spiritual as you ought to be. All these men
here, all the others saying, Bye, bye, they used it better. If they had only 24 hours on
the clock I could do with a 48 hour clock. And Id still use it.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.40
1 John 3:7
1 John 3:3
See 1 Peter 1:22
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2008/9/30 22:47||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
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Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to
That is right.
Yes. Well, it goes on to say that, but I think, does it, Thy word have I hid in mine heart,
that I might not sin against thee.42 Not just occasionally get victory. I mean, dear God,
whats the difference between us and others?
Oh, speaking [?] speaks in tongues. But they live like devils a lot of them. There is only
one thing I think the devil cant fake and that is a holy life. He has tried to do it through
monasteries. But going back a minute, I dont think [?] recently in two different accounts
by two different men said, If I could now, I would start a Christian monastery.
What they mean is like the Bible school I went to there were no TVs in those days. There
were radios. You couldnt take a radio. You couldnt take an automobile. When you
went on a campus you stayed from October till Christmas then went home for a few days,
came back and said stayed till Easter. You [?] get a haircut. You couldnt go shopping.
You couldnt drive a car, anything. There were no girls there. They are too distracting.
And we were shut up. You came here to know the Word of God. And they did a pretty
But now, dear God, I know a boy that went to ORU and his daddy as an agency [?] he
gave him a new car, bought him a new [?], bought him new clothes, a new set of golf
clothes. Everything he had. And within a month he wrapped the new car around a lamp
post, total wreck. He is called back and said, Oh, dont come home. Dont come home.
Mommys is bringing a new car tomorrow. And that all they [?] in the weather.
Oral Roberts says he has 4000 young people there full of the Holy Ghost. Baloney. How
could you have 4000 if there were only 120 in the upper room?
His people go to the...you cant dance on the on the premises. But they go to other places
to dance. Why do they have places where they say students are spending all night in
prayer intercession? We have never been in a [?] and now we are nearer judgment than
we have ever been in America and England. I think England and America are a lot of
Sodom and a lot of Gomorrha. They never had the chances we had. They never had the
Bible schools, never had the seminaries, never had all the Christian periodicals.
How [?] how many teams do you think there are around America either going round
teaching spiritual warfare or something else? Every magazine you come out with got
something new. And we are feeding jaded appetites. If we once had a Holy Ghost
revival [?] a dozen other...a hundred men in a factory and we had them instead of going
Page 34 of 47
to lunch they had a lunch and then they had a prayer meeting or something. It would soon
spread. But we dont have that. And I dont know by what I read you are going to do the
same thing the next 10 years we have been the last 10 years. We have done nothing. But
it is like Spurgeon said, You see it as a stick there and it is the most crooked stick you
have ever seen. Dont argue about it, put the straight stick at the side of it.
You see, thats all our young people want it. They dont know. They dont know what
they believe, like [?] Fred Wolfe has one of the biggest Southern Baptist Church in
Mobile. I have preached there. And he has put a new building up since that seats 4000.
And he says...he said, We feel responsible for the 11,000 students in this area. But he
said, I wonder why it is in their sophomore year, which is what? The second year that
they are in college they leave church. Well, you can guarantee that those kids went to [?]
Bible school, most likely went to a Christian camp. I guarantee 99, 95% of them made a
profession of Christianity. When they get away from home, Im not going to go to
church. [?] you can go down to the [?] you can have a...
Why did they desert like that? I mean, why dont they have an appetite for God? But
they dont. I mean, three weeks ago the fellow that is setting up to be the assistant at [?]
he blasted Baylor University, the message saying that those guys are totally going to
Baylor. It is not known any longer as a spiritual place. It is known as a...well, it is a
liberal arts college and it is [?] football team. But what if the kids suddenly have no
appetite when they get teenagers get away from home? Well, one [?] go to church
because my folk have made me go every Sunday. They have no appetite. So there is no
relationship with God.
And if he spent time at the altar and took them through step by step what had instantly
become a Christian, Your life is hid with Christ in God.43 You are not your own. You
are bought with a price.44 You are no child of your own. You have no money of your
own. You have no interest of your own. Christ must become your complete master. They
dont do that.
And unless we do, we are not going to ever change. I mean there are people who are
really hungry. There are people that meet Dave Wilsons folk on the [?]. I have never
seen a Christian in my life.
Well, what they say the average church member is just like us. Very often they are
smoking until they go in the meeting. And at last minute when the come out it is the
cowboys or something. Where is the difference? And it isnt there. But it all comes
down to...I dont care whether it is Swaggert or PTL, it comes down, it breaks down with
personal devotion to Christ. They quit praying. They quit reading the Word of God. They
havent time. And therefore they start [?] from the inside.
See 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Page 35 of 47
[?] as a nation bigger enough to decide....America will destroy herself. The present rate of
development in Herpes and AIDS is appalling. The list really doesnt mean take off the
I dont think they are going to dare tell us what is happening in the country. It is the same
way in England.
But where are the God filled men? I mean Swaggert says the day after, I was going to
step down and let my son take over, but I woke up full of the Holy Ghost. No, he woke
up full of tongues. He gave his tongues and he took it as a sign that the gifts and callings
of God are without repentance.45
I see a girl wearing a big ring and she said, Oh, Jack gave me that.
I go back to the church sing some tracts and say, Oh, did he get that?
Oh, no, we called after that.
But you are still wearing the ring.
Yes, well, of course, Jacks gone, but he left his ring.
By the same token the Holy Ghost has gone, but he has left his gift, the gifts and callings
are without repentance.46
Who moved London more than Irving? Edward Irving in his day, carriages jostled each
other, parliament suspended so they could run out and hear this great orator. He had
every kind of sign and wonder. A bit like colossal church. And finally stood on the
platform and said, I am the Son of God. I have got this veil to you. But now here I am.
There is everything. Men call him the 13th apostle. There is no questions about what
happened. There is a whole book on him. I have it. And you have got all these [?] rules.
I guess you have read something of Wigglesworth. Have you read [?]? John C. Lakes
books are published now by [?], four of them. That man is a...well, here I am standing
here and I talked with Wigglesworth. Wigglesworth is here. I am here. John Lake is up
there. You talk about apostolic Christianity. He had it all beyond anything we have ever
I dont think it is the only answer. I think the answer is when people are so transformed,
they are no longer mean and they are no longer selfish, no longer covetous, but they give
themselves. I mean, when children say, Something happened to my daddy. He has been
a Baptist for all his life and something happened. Oh, my daddy has been a Methodist.
Or now my daddy has been a charismatic, but something suddenly changed. He has
See Romans 11:29
Page 36 of 47
become different. He is Christ like. He speaks gently to my mother. He is concerned
It isnt, Well, I am going to the World Series whether you like it or not or I am going to
a ball game, you know, whiffle ball.
And I said to these preachers, Well, you say I cant take three days off. I say, You
too, more than three days off to go deer hunting. You took three days off to go fishing.
Why cant you pastors set the standard and say there is going to be a meeting for pastors
at least one day a week or one night a week when we get together, we evangelicals really
lay hold of God for revival in our city. These kids around here will raise money to go to
Hong Kong for three days or go to South America. But when they come back as soon as
they get off the plane their compassion dies.
Well, what are you going to do with kids like that? And they will keep doing it as long as
we want them.
You know, we took a number of our people from our church, we took them on a cruise.
But you are touching the elite of the church all the time. You have done that year after
year and the poor people are struggling. If you can take six or seven days off for a cruise,
cant you take six or seven days off for a nation that is going to hell? What do you want
to do? Kids lie in the street fornicating. People [?] a man on the head and stealing his
watch. Thats sin to become before your eyes before we feel.
I mean how many...it is all right to say I want to be like Jesus. Do I want Gethsemane? I
have never heard a person yet, dear brother, and I have been to church for 80 years. Ive
heard men say, I was born again. I went to the cross. Ive had an upper room
experience. I have never heard a man say, I had a Gethsemane experience. I have a
broken... My dad was the nearest to that. My dad couldnt say grace at meal time
without tears. And right now I have indication its seven different... [?] I say because his
papers here whats happening here in America. I cant say there is revival anywhere right
now. And so do you think I am going to talk [?] Holy Ghost revival when we are dying
and doomed and damned here and we go running into worse trouble?
What is in the Scriptures? What does God say? I cant give you glory because you honor
Thats one of the biggest sins in Israel. In fact, John [?] ask me and I said, If you do Ill
walk off the platform.
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Well, I went to say...well, first of all we [?] Baptist, you told [?] that in revival you dont
make altar calls. I said, You dont?
He said, I have never been in a meeting like that.
So I said, When we come, I said, Let our David speak an hour before I do and [?] free
now is pulled out from the churches, free to go anywhere. I said, So David preached an
hour and a 15 minute break and I preached for an hour and a half. And when I was
preaching the whole audience woke up. They cam in hundreds to the front and wept and
groaned and cried out audibly. Make me clean and purify me. And that happened six
days. We never had three one week and three the next. We never had an altar call. We
didnt have to. They came to the altar and they stayed not five minutes. Two and three
hours calling on God.
You read Luke chapter three. What does it say? John was preaching and the people cried
out, What shall we do? And the soldiers cried out, What shall we do? And the
publicans cried out. Dear God, when heathen men start crying out, What shall we do?
you know God is there.
There is no pleading altar call.
No. What did it say on the day of Pentecost? Men and brethren, what shall we do?47
We are panicking with...the altar doesnt mean anything to people now. They come out
every week. They are [?] oh get your sins forgiven, go back and do the same lousy thing.
It is ridiculous. You dont know that if you go to death. When you die to self you die to
business promotion. You die to ambition. You lay it all out and say, We mean this. We
[?]. Put us on record.
Well never do anything unless we get there. We have had [?] what did we have not long
ago? Do you remember A.A. Allen? A.A. Allen used to have meetings. He would get
500 come forward. And on the way home to his [?] he called his call girl and she met him
there. He died with liquor bottles, whiskey bottles all around his room. Theres a whole
bunch of men doing that.
You dont find anything like that amongst the old fashioned revivalists, true revivalists.
That is why I like to read the book like this one on the accounts of revival. I mean, it is
something we dont know a thing about. Dear God, pity us. They say we have the same
Bible, the same Holy Ghost. Why dont we get the same results?
And the menace of many of our meetings is we are trying to get people saved who dont
know they are lost. Come forward. The Lord loves you. The Lord loves you.
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The Lord hates you. Why [?] instead of this bumper sticker, God loves you, God is
angry with the wicked everyday, or the wicked shall be turned into hell. [?]
Fools make a mock at sin.48
Yeah, but we dont do that. We dont even preach it.
But I know there is a hunger across America by the phone calls I get. And guys are going
to a stone wall now. They...there isnt a church in this town that is having a move of God
they say. They will pray till [?] get together. And...
The prophet Amos says, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a
famine in the land.49
...not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run
to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.50
Is that literally like no Bibles or is it that the Word isnt a living Word? I mean, you can
read it. I can go and hear a fellow and he preaches. There is no passion. There is no tears.
There is no, you know, Ill dive right in. Richard Baxter. I preached as if to never preach
again and as a dying man to dying men.
You think this fellow is a professional. He gets paid. And when he steps up to the pulpit
he says, Hey, John, what about a round of golf on Wednesday or Thursday?
And immediately they switch from the spiritual and the eternal to some stupid thing.
Page 39 of 47
I wouldnt take any notice of them anyhow. I would say, Pastor, live it, live it, live it.
Dont tell me to pray. Meet with me in the...
When I got saved and then after [?] sanctify me because of the blank in my life. And [?]
I went to the pastor and said, Pastor, I went to prayer meeting on Wednesday night on
Friday night for the young people. Oh, well its not good for young people to meet
together. So you come and supervisor it [?].
So we started a prayer meeting on Friday night at seven and we prayed until nine. I
started the prayer meeting at seven on Sunday morning and I lived on the outside of [?]. I
walked to the prayer meeting, walked home for breakfast, walked home for the morning
service, walked home for lunch, walked back for the afternoon service, walked home for
supper, walked for the night service and God began to move in people in the
neighborhood got saved. And it never happened before.
But, you see, once you have been in that it is like...like [?] but Major Thomas said...no,
Major Russell that once he got back into the fire of the Welsh revival everything in [?] he
got in the train and going home to...he couldnt get back to London quick enough to tell
that the Holy Ghost had fallen. And then...I mean, the first greatest revival in England
was the Wesleyan revival that went to 90...no, the Wesley revival. And then the next one
was the Salvation Army which...that went into 70 countries in 90 years, not 70, you say,
but 70 countries. Dear God, they had the most amazing night prayer meetings and
training students and getting down to the Bible in prayer. And every week they were
taken to a night of prayer. They were taken to street meetings. Somewhere in London
they were meeting sin head on and visiting taverns, talking to the harlots which nobody
does now except just about Dave Wilson and Tim Delaney down in the motor city there
doing the same thing.
But where we are all sitting inside for [?]. I say, Why do you sit inside the four walls
singing, Let the earth hear his voice? It doesnt make sense.
Let the earth hear his voice. Get out. Stand on a box. Call a man to witness. Call a
woman to witness. Sing a hymn. You cant preach very much to crowds, but before long,
you say, we are going to be here every Saturday night for the next winter and...or
summer. And they come with expectation. They plan the shopping.
People used to go with us. They would try to come shopping on Friday night and
Saturday night because we are in the town square. And we didnt miss for three years.
And now young people came. You didnt have to win them. They came eagerly, you
know. You give them a chance to witness.
I said, If anybody stands on this box who isnt telling the truth, you interrupt them
because I am the leader and they say Ill check on them. Dont let a man talk when he is
not walking in it. If he is walking in it...if a man is in your factory, your office, is it not
telling the truth to come an tell me, you know, [?]?
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Well, we didnt need to advertise in the paper. Dear God, I was the best known man in
town even though the cathedral was only three hundred yards away from us, magnificent
cathedral. I only got 500 Sunday night. They stood outside and lined up like a movie
house. That and the cathedral got 50. So where do you go? I mean the cathedral is
ornate. It had gold plates on the...of gold communion things and candlesticks on the
altar. It was like a miniature Wesleyan style with stained glass windows. But what is that
to the glory of God? I mean our place was packed an hour before time. Our prayer
meetings were packed. We had three prayer meetings a week and three street meetings.
And that was why that church kept in continuous revival for the three years I was there.
And it is still there today.
Well, better than that what I want to say is that I know the Bible is absolute or obsolete.
Which is it? Is God all he says he is? Is Hebrews 11:6 what we need to rediscover? He
that cometh to God must believe that he is.51 What does it matter about Swaggart and
all the rest? I know it is...it is objectionable today. It hurts and people are coming out.
But are they cracking jokes about Swaggart. If God told him he could go on preaching a
guy told me the other night, somebody said, Well, if God says he can go on preaching
the message, then why didnt God tell him there was a cop following him on the road in a
car. [?] as they appear to be.
I think it all boils down to one of the oldest hymns and we hardly ever sing it. Trust and
obey. There is no other way, no other way.
It is hard on the flesh. It is hard against the lifestyle of preachers round about us, but what
does God want? I am not going to the judgment bar of the Assemblies of God or the First
Baptist Church. I am going to judgment bar of Jesus Christ. And I live with that every
It is what he said.
[?] It is not what is just in the book of life. It tells us that [?]. It says, Leonard, I dont
think I am ashamed of what I have done since I was saved. It is what I could have done
that troubles me. And not what I did, but why I did it. God is [?] the motives. I mean I
See Hebrews 11:6
Page 41 of 47
heard G. Campbell Morgan say, I had talked with a friend of mine the other day and
they had been preaching in a church I loved to go to. Campbell Morgan said, [?] he
said, Oh, I enjoyed myself. He said, He did. He enjoyed his oratory. He enjoyed his
rapport with the people. He enjoyed his eloquence. He enjoyed himself.
What did God get?
The question when I finished the meeting is, I didnt get anything out of this meeting, but
what did God get out of it?
What do people say going out? I think, dear brother, if I was where God wanted me to be
or where I should be I would leave a meeting with tears running down my face and the
glory of God or that all these people outside that are glued to the TV this afternoon, this
sabbath day and [?] interest in God.
Christ could die on the Main Street today, wont interest them at all. But we have got...I
think we have got to preach until people know that we mean what we say. We have
burned [?] chancellor of, I think, St. Marys College in Oxford and one of the best guys in
England. But one day, even though he had clouds, he got so tired. He went in his office
and he wrote out a gorgeous hymn, Breathe on me breath of God, fill me with life
anew. Then the last lines, Breathe on breath of God, until I am wholly thine, till all this
earthly part of me glows with thy fire divine.
People ask me, How do you...you have been preaching 70 years now. How do you keep
Because I read stories on revival, because I read the Word of God and I see what the
apostle did, that Paul can laugh at death and laugh at hardship and sin [?] to tell other
people to rejoice or he can give you 2 Corinthians 11 and go down seven times [?] perils
of the deep, in perils of mine own countrymen, in perils, perils, but enough to kill 10 men
and glory in tribulation. He doesnt just find grace to get through. He welcomes it. He
said, This is the only way. Because when we get to heaven, dear brother, God doesnt
ask you where your diploma is. He is not looking for medals. He is looking for scars.
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word
of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth,
the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.52
1 Thessalonians 2:13
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Do men not believe this Word that has been written to them?
Well, because it does a work in us. I say, You stand in a pulpit and preach, but what
does it mean to you? What does it work out in your life? I mean, you have to drive the
biggest car, you have to have this, you have to have the other. I have a five year old
Lincoln Continental, the small one. You dont have people laugh at me for having it.
I say, Well, Ill swap it for anything else. Its reliable. Thats why I like it. I got it
because I am doing long distance traveling. I dont need it to shop in. If you want to buy
it, buy it. Ill take an older one. But I say, it doesnt mean that much to me. I said I am
more...I make souls for five years. I have bought one pair of trousers. It is just that I used
to almost...I dont like clothes because I was a tailor before I was saved and I wore the
best clothes in the country. In fact, they used to call me the best dressed man in the [?].
But all that is gone. That is trivial. That is silly looking back.
I say that all that matters. If you could get nearer to God than I get, tell me how did you
get there? Thats all I am concerned about.
Paul isnt concerned about anything. I said, You go to the national convention of your
denomination and stand up and say, I have got a glorious text for you. Theres 1000
pastors here from our denomination. I have got a glorious text for you. You are dead.
What would they do? They would glare at you. I said Paul [?], For ye are dead, and
your life is hid with Christ in God.53 Well, if they believe you are dead you preach as
though you are dead. You act as though you are dead. But are you dead to all the worlds
glamour? Are you dead to the rivalry in your denomination? Are you dead to climbing
up the ladder? It is every preachers [?] when [?] finally decided to have Joel Gregory
from [?] Avenue as his assistant other men thought, Well, I deserve it after him. True, I
was there 45 years. He has been there 42 years. I am a young man. I should go in...
People ask me, What do you do to be great?
I wash somebodys feet.
Was A.W. Tozer your mentor?
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What was he like?
Well, there are different ways to answer that question, but I will tell you one thing about
him. It was the same with Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I talked with him. G. Campbell Morgan, I
listened to him often. So Martyn Lloyd-Jones and George Campbell Morgan and Tozer
had one thing in common when they went to the pulpit. They never raised their finger.
They never raised their voice. They didnt depend on histrionics to get the message on.
Dr. Tozer had the habit of like he would have his...he would have his Bible in his hand
and say, I am reading from John 17:1. And he would begin to read. And hed maybe
give a little outline and then he rocked to and fro like this. And then suddenly he threw
his Bible on the pulpit. At that moment he was airborne. It was like a...like a plane
getting off the runway and off he went. And he wasnt the greatest preacher I have heard
in my life. But he had a most intimacy with God like he read all the mistakes. He could
quote [?] or you could quote [?] and he could put his finger on the whole lot and tell you
how he had [?] and his emphasis was the inner man, the inner man, you know, And he
was against showmanship. He wouldnt let anybody play a trumpet on his platform,
hardly let anybody sing unless they sang a hymn. [?] and the other fellow called Max
something. Anyhow, he answered it, well before that Tozer got an old Methodist
hymnbook and soaked himself in it while this fellow came on. And I cant remember his
[?]. And he introduced when they got a lot of old Methodist hymnbooks of it printed, the
sheets and they sang hymns like And Can it Be that I should Gain and all those and
Tozer reveled in that kind of thing. He would never comfort in the flesh. He would
never have any special meetings.
I went and we have two weeks, three weekends, actually. And he said, This is the
greatest revival in the history of this church. We had the altars open until midnight,
people weeping and seeking God. And coming by the cross town.
Well, there is a difference. You have got [?] you have got Moody Bible Institute. We
have next door is Moody Church. The students only had to come out of here into there.
And yet they crossed the town. When ice, you know, churned up by the cars and it froze
and you feel...well, the peoples ankles were snapping getting off busses and they would
rather come across town in a car or walk some of them and hear Tozer than go next door
to hear the...whoever was preaching at that [?] part of the town.
And, well, I will tell you what he was in that place, but three times they begged him to
become the president of the Christian Missionary Alliance. [?]. He turned it down again
and again. God didnt ask me to kiss babies and sit in council meetings. My business is
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the Word of God. And he would turn men away and not even...but [?] with his time. I
was privileged to spend a lot of time with him and go to his home even. But all the time
he talked about, well, the type of teaching that A.B. Simpson had, opening the depths of
the Word of God, you know, Romans and Ephesians, living in that area and shut
worldliness out, shut [?] out, shut everything else which he did. He loved music. He
listened every night to a recording of...who did he listen to? Not Chopin, but...anyhow,
[?] symphony. Every night he had one hour listening to good music.
But, again, he was...I have prayed with him many times, very, very wonderful in prayer.
He didnt shout. He just had a conversational talk with God and he could be...he cut an
audience in two with the Word or [?]. He got very sarcastic at time and, you know,
people kind of remonstrated with him for that. He refused all indications until the very
end. He sent he went one church 25 years and he didnt get a very big salary, so...
His strength, actually, was his devotional life. He wouldnt let anybody trespass on that.
He spent certain [?] one time.
Could you reflect some on your...on your times with Keith Green?
Well, Keith was a zealot. I mean, he bounced through that door. I remember he...where
this division is it used to be a wall and Dave Wilson pulled it out and furnished all this for
me. And [?] would come one day, cream would come the other as opposite as could be
because David was mature. He had been a pastor for about 20 years then. Keith, of
course, had come from the [?] and he would tell you about his past life and sorryness.
But he was hungry for God. I remember definitely a turn in his life when I told him he
shouldnt charge...he went to concerts, but they do it. He had gone back to it this last
week, I think, but they didnt do that. And I remember talking to him about eternity on
one occasion and holiness on another and he, you know, like a child jumping up to get a
fly he got [?] like that. And he would come back. I remember he bounced through the
door. He didnt know [?] and bounced through and he was a big guy. And I remember he
used to give me pops and give me a hug. And he said, Pops, he said, Do you know
where all roads lead to?
We used to say in England, All roads lead to Rome. It is an old saying. Everybody
travels to Rome to see. He said, Do you know what all roads lead to?
I said, Rome.
He said, You are wrong.
I said, Why?
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He said, All roads lead to the judgment seat.
I said, Very good.
And he had a...I dont know, I have never read this anywhere, but I think it is right to say
he had a holy fever or like a fear of God. I mean when you think he didnt live very long,
but I still get letters about him. I get that [?] that his wife wrote on, no compromise is
doing good. And they still send his tapes out. In fact, he wrote the [?] this week and
asked me [?] because God used it to ministry. But it got him into trouble for not being
friendly enough with the Catholics. So they withdrew it, but...and he loved to play. He
said, Can we play? And he would get down and really pour his heart out, you know.
And he had visions of what God wanted to do in this area and he was...of course other
people couldnt keep up with him. They thought he...maybe he was...he wasnt mature
enough in one sense for leadership. He wanted everybody to jump up to his level which
you cant do any more than I could jump up now to the level of an Olympic runner. I
used to run. I would like to run, but I cant. I am glad even to walk.
But he was like that. I mean, he saw eternal things. And if he wont say it to you, he
couldnt understand his stupidity. He couldnt understand why he loved leaping and, you
know, and going full pace. If he fasted, he fasted. If he prayed, he prayed. [?] British
writer of tremendous insight to people. The first time she saw him she said, Len, the
Spirit of God is on that young man. And in England, you know, you have got two
kidneys. They are supposed to match function the same. Well, in England they say,
Well, that man isnt your kidney. In other words, you know, he is not your...if you
want to call it alter ego, what you want to call it.
But immediately he came in. She said, Well, there is something unique about... And
there was about him. And they dont have it now. They know that. I mean he was really
into living full strength. He expected others to do the same thing for him. And...
He was a good reader. He liked to read Tozer very much. And he liked to read David
Brainerd or he liked to read the three volumes of Edward Payson. He read that, too.
And, in essence, dear brother, he is saying exactly what you say. Go back to the old
paths. [?] Well, of course, he and the guy that usually uttered at...of the seat at the [?]
[?]. They very much fastened it. They used to read William Booth. They read the stories
of William Booth and the old men. And he would come to me and tell me more about
Booth, tell me more about the nights of prayer. Tell me about the days of [?] . Tell me
about your street meetings.
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And I think he warmed up to it, you know. We want to get back to that. And...
[?] you dont know why God moves men along like that [?].
Brother Ravenhill, how would you want people to remember you?
Oh, I dont know, as a nuisance, I think.
When your reward is like...I cant do it now because I get so many people, but say three
or four years ago a man had come and spent two hours and men write back and say, you
know, from another country I am pasturing out in New Zealand and the turning point was
when I came to see you. I got more in two hours with you than I got two years in
seminary. I am reading the whole hour of God. I am reading this. I am reading some
history of the Salvation Army and areas that they hadnt broken into. And all I know is I
stressed as much as possible the life of prayer and personal devotion.
[?] get cold there, you get cold outside. If you keep fueling yourself, you keep reading
Isaiah six over and get visions of God and visions of...but live in the book of the
Revelation and you dont understand all of it. You dont [?]. I say, God cant be
explained. He can be experienced. And that is al that matters.
I mean I sometimes fear like I preach my heart out on Sunday in the three fold vision. I
wanted out there. Am I trying to get people to come out to the altar? I didnt because I
never made an altar call. But nobody is going to jump. I mean, I got saved at 14. I am 84,
almost 85. So I mean 70 years I have seen all kinds of tragedies in the church, wars and
rumors of wars, popular men go, popular and so forth. But I keep looking unto Jesus and
reading the Word. I am remembering these old paths that my daddy used to talk about so
much and all the other looks like trivia.
And guys now laugh at me because I live on my social security. I have done counseling
in this room for 13 years. I never liked it because somebody leaves something behind. Its
ok. They havent left $500 in 13 years. So I dont do it for the money. A man [?] from
Houston last year and he said, Can I come and see you?
I said, Yes.
A van came, 10 of them came in the pastorate at 10 o'clock and they stayed until one man
talked my heart out which I could... [?] remuneration for this.
I said, No. I said, I live on my social security. Anything above that I divide in the
middle between my missionary son and myself or the other boy.
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So the [?] said, Well, we should leave you something. So he goes to the door, takes his
billfold out, takes something out and he came back and put it on the table, put his hand on
it. And he said, I am leaving this for you because I know you will share it with your
I said, I sure will.
So they went and I went to Martha. I said, Darling, they have gone now. I said, But
they left us some money. Isnt that a miracle?
She said, Well, that...we dont get that.
I said, Well, I dont know what it is, maybe $100 or 1000 he has left us because till we
share it with Paul.
She said, Well, lets go.
So we came in. He left us five dollars.
I said, Well, one thing. We wont get drunk anyhow.
And I am just saying that because everything has money [?]. What annoys me [?] how
much will it cost to have you come for the week. I say, If you start that way, I am not
even going. And I dont go.
No, I think we are moving now...and one thing it is terrible things like Swaggart is
happening and so forth that it gives the church a new [?] because it starts at a new level of
holiness and they are not going to be entertainers. They are not going [?]. We dont have
to join in every effort that they make in the city to have a revival. Forget it. It had been
enough for 20 years. Stay at the place of prayer. It doesnt matter who comes to town to
preach. We are going to stay together and pray Friday nights from nine to 11 and nine to
12. I have done that always. Every city I have been in I have started a pastors prayer
meeting usually on a Monday when they are washed out and tired. And they come from
There is [?] to prayer and obedience.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2008/9/30 22:48||Profile|
| Re: |
"A man would be an idiot to buy a hundred dollar fishing gear and go fish in his bathtub and that's all we do in church, we fish with the same people every week and people are dying without God."
"There was an unwritten law in the Salvation Army, they called their churches a corps you know, like the army does, it was an unwritten law that when you finish your street meeting at nine o'clock Saturday night you would pray until midnight, and he said to me, we had men that would pray and one old man in particular would jump up maybe twelve or one and raise his hand and shout, Victory! Victory! There will be ten tomorrow, and he said there will be nine or ten saved!"
| 2013/4/6 16:08||Profile|
| Re: |
"They had a burning, you went to the prayer meeting and you felt the glory and the majesty of God and now you don't do that. I was with a team not long ago, before the meeting at night we went to the side room and there is hot tea and cold tea and drinks and food and trivial talking and straight from there to the platform! How do you turn off and suddenly become spiritual? We traveled the country, we slept in fields at night, we slept in churches, at night we would kneel in the street at ten, eleven o'clock at night, people would get saved on the street, we did not give a who where we slept, people slept in sleeping bags for three years, slept on the floors of churches, anywhere they would take us in, but we had revival, the churches are still standing there today."
| 2013/4/6 17:28||Profile|
| Re: |
"But now I go to a meeting and everybody is "nice to see you" and they want to talk, I say, leave me alone. When we went, brother, we had a solid hour of prayer together, 11 o'clock to 12 in the morning and then a bit of a rest in the afternoon and mostly went to prayer. And then we had a prayer meeting one hour before the night service, went on the platform charged with the power of God and full of expectation and faith."
| 2013/4/6 17:47||Profile|
| Re: |
"What we need today dear brother more than ever is people to go forth with a new birth message, forget all about tongues, forget all about miracles, signs and wonders, they are not happening anyhow, let's get back to real genuine conversion."
| 2013/4/6 17:53||Profile|
| Re: |
"What we need is God in the midst, if God is in the midst a lot of our stuff would never take place. Just let God come, His very presence."
| 2013/4/6 18:01||Profile|
| Re: |
"When you go to a meeting now somebody is going to sing, then something else and it is all programmed before hand. How can God come in? I talked with the man, the Welshman who went through the revival with William Booth. He said, I was with William Booth in his office. We were having meetings in London. And somebody sent me a note, my wife. Revival has broken out. There is a young man in his 20's and he is packing everywhere he goes. He wont even let them publicize him. He wont let them put his picture in the paper. Theyll just announce he is coming to Swansea and every church in town is filled because they dont know where he is going. In one meeting Evan Roberts comes in and he walks down to the front seat, sits down, bows his head and prayed for three hours. Our people walked out. But then he stood up for 15 minutes and you haven't heard anything like it in your life. The Holy Ghost came upon him. When he prayed God just came down as though He had jumped in the audience. And that happened more than once."
| 2013/4/6 18:16||Profile|