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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Jehovah's Witnesses

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PosterThread
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Am I taking 2 John 10 too literal? I don't want them to think they can come back and try to give me propaganda. I thought about what I wrote previously, about not welcoming her back, I didn't want it to sound like I squashed her with rudeness. I politely told her that would not be necessary to discuss or debate again. She was actually very sweet and kind and we did discuss certain text, but to no avail!

Anyways I wanted to clear up what I wrote previously. I didn't want you all to think I was swinging the sword to draw blood!

mike

 2008/9/27 14:08Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Am I taking 2 John 10 too literal? I don't want them to think they can come back and try to give me propaganda.



I think you did the right thing, brother. With most JW's I've been around, I've gotten clear signals from the Holy Spirit to not persue a discussion, as God has given up on them. It is a very sad thing when the Lord gives a person over to a lie, and actually seals their doom to everlasting destruction while they yet still walk on earth. But we've seen this many times, people so closed off to the gospel, so hardened, the conscience so seared, heart so darkened...and if this weren't enough, an oppressive forbidding by the Holy Spirit to witness to them.

This is truly terrifying, and you are hearing this from a mortician who deals with the dead on a daily basis. Many of you also deal with the dead daily as well and don't even know it.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/9/27 15:39Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Quote:
Am I taking 2 John 10 too literal? I don't want them to think they can come back and try to give me propaganda.



I think you did the right thing, brother. With most JW's I've been around, I've gotten clear signals from the Holy Spirit to not persue a discussion, as God has given up on them. It is a very sad thing when the Lord gives a person over to a lie, and actually seals their doom to everlasting destruction while they yet still walk on earth. But we've seen this many times, people so closed off to the gospel, so hardened, the conscience so seared, heart so darkened...and if this wasn't enough, an oppressive forbidding by the Holy Spirit to witness to them.

This is truly terrifying, and you are hearing this from a mortician who deals with the dead on a daily basis. Many of you also deal with the dead daily as well and don't even know it.



Whats sad is that she used to be Southern Baptist and all I could think about is that she left the faith...she became an apostate. When she left the one thing that came to mind my mind was if you deny me before men i will deny you before my Father. Tragic!

Blessings
Mike

 2008/9/27 15:58Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

I think it is good to point out all the false prophecies of the various leaders of the JW's but as other have noted, when you do this they just circle the wagons and give the pat answers. So you will find it hard going along this line.

I prefer to stick with just talking about Christ, the deity of Christ, the sufficiency of Christ, the glory of Christ...Ask them about how you can know eternal life; for every "do" they present (and like all false religion they will present a works salvation) you present a "done" from Christ.

Also, for those who don't know exactly what JW's believe and don't believe, I have incuded below something from Ed Decker that may be helpful.
[b]Five important facts to remember about the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Organization.[/b]

1. They have accepted the Organization as the Prophet of God.

2. They have accepted the Organization as God's sole channel for His truth.

3. They believe that to reject the Organization is to reject God.

4. They believe that only the Organization can interpret the Bible; as individuals they are unable to do so.

5. They believe the Watchtower Magazine contains God's truth, directed by Him, through the Organization.

[b]What does the Organization and Watchtower Magazine teach that is in conflict with Orthodox Christianity?[/b]

1. That Jesus is a created being/a creature.

2. That Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel

3. That Jesus was not resurrected bodily, but as a spirit being.

4. That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 (secretly to the Organization)

5. That Jesus was only a man when on earth, not the Word Become flesh.

6. That the Holy Spirit is only an active force, not the person of God.

7. That Hell is simply the grave.

8. That Heaven's doors is open to only 144,000.

9. That the majority of Witnesses must remain on earth.

10. That salvation is found only through the Organization.

11. That it must be maintained by energetic works for the Organization until the end when one may merit eternal life on a paradise earth.

12. That Satan is the author of the doctrine of the Trinity.

13. That Jesus cannot be given worship, but only honor as Jehovah's first creation.

[b]The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe or teach some of the very basic tenets of Christian doctrine.[/b]

They deny:

1. The Trinity.

2. The Omnipresence of God.

3. The Deity of Christ.

4. The dual nature of Christ.

5. The bodily resurrection of Christ.

6. The visible return of Christ.

7. The person of God the Holy Spirit.

8. The Promise of Heaven to all believers.

9. The necessity of the New Birth for all believers.

10. The Lord's Supper for all believers. (only for the 144,0000).

11. The Eternal Security of the believer.

12. The conscious Eternal Punishment of the lost.


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2008/9/27 16:44Profile
Fuegodedios
Member



Joined: 2007/2/21
Posts: 220
Richmond, VA

 Re:

This is a very good conversation. I agree with you reformer. A couple of weeks ago I had a family member call me with some JW's on the line and they wanted to debate and I felt that I should not engage in a heated debate. I did say a few words of scripture but would not go any further to give my own opinions I just stood upon the scriptures alone. I did that once( the heated debate thing) and it was not good and it did not glorify Jesus Christ. So you did the right thing only the father can draw men to himself John 6:44. Only the Holy Spirit can convict the world of sin and error John 16:8. Our job is to just sow the word, or I should say speak the truth in love. Then watch a sovereign God in all of his glorious power take that which is dead, deplorable and depraved and bring life to it. What a wonderful thing God does in conversion, just amazing.


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Demetrius

 2008/9/27 19:05Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


PaulWest wrote:

Quote:


Many of you also deal with the dead daily as well and don't even know it.





Brother, this sent a shiver down my spine when I read it and made me kind of sick to my stomach. This IS truth. And we as Christians seem to forget that at the end of the day, there is only heaven or hell for us and our brothers.


IN reaagards to the JW's and Mormons, I always talk to these folks. I invite them in, pull out my bible, and talk scripture with them. They never do come back, even though I ask them to come back with their friends.

Once in fact, I talked one of them into giving me their phone number. I called them up and invited them to our all night prayer meeting. The declined and did not come back.

My heart breaks for these folks.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/9/28 0:20Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: JW's

The failed prophecies mentioned earlier, by date;

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/dates.html

Other helpful information there as well.

[url=http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/]Watch the Tower[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2008/9/28 1:17Profile









 Re:

I think Bill was right on with what he said. In my opinion the average "Joe Christian" should not attempt to witness to JW's or Mormons. I say that because today the average Christian is Biblically illiterate. If you dont know scripture they will eat you alive, and the average Christian does not know scripture. Sad, but true.

Also realize that the JW's love to talk to people who are ignorant... and Mormons love to talk to people who are thinkers and show intelligence. Basically, if you come across as ignorant, the JW's will stay all day. If you sound like you know what you're talking about... they suddenly have to go.

It's exactly the opposite with Mormons.

But when dealing with either cult you must remain focussed on the main issue: Who is Jesus Christ?

Both will try to chase rabbit trails with you and get you off topic, but you must bring them back to the main issue.

As I said tho, the vast majority of Christians in America today should never discuss scripture with either JW's or Mormons due to ignorance and laziness in scripture.

Krispy

 2008/9/29 9:18





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