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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Does God speak to His people?

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 Re:

Hi krispy...I was looking for your opinion, not a judgement. I used to think to myself, why did Jesus do so many things on the Sabbath, was He deliberatly trying to upset the Pharisees?

Joh 9:14 And it was a sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes.
Joh 9:16 Therefore some of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he does not keep the sabbath. Others said, How can a man, a sinner, do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole and took up his bed and walked. And it was a sabbath on that day.
Joh 5:10 Therefore the Jews said to him who had been healed, It is the sabbath. It is not lawful Joh 5:16 And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day.

Did Jesus care more about the person or about the particular interpretation of the Pharisees? Did the Pharisees care about these people?

If we stand upon the Word of God, and you and I agree upon that Krispy, and we also agree on the chaotic mess out there because people are running around all over the place saying "thus sayeth the Lord, then what Scripture would say God does not speak to His people anymore? So what is a person to do? Deny that God speaks to His people? Or test everything by the Word of God? My own particular view is, because the Word of God says it, is that we must test everything in light of Scripture, and when we do, we can quite easily discount the peddlers, the word of faithers and the Todd Bentley's of this world.........with much love...brother Frank

 2008/9/30 13:13
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


appolus wrote:

Quote:


If we stand upon the Word of God, and you and I agree upon that Krispy, and we also agree on the chaotic mess out there because people are running around all over the place saying "thus sayeth the Lord, then what Scripture would say God does not speak to His people anymore? So what is a person to do? Deny that God speaks to His people? Or test everything by the Word of God? My own particular view is, because the Word of God says it, is that we must test everything in light of Scripture, and when we do, we can quite easily discount the peddlers, the word of faithers and the Todd Bentley's of this world.........with much love...brother Frank





Well said Brother :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/9/30 13:15Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Well... since we agree on this, let me again say that God speaks to His people today thru His Word. And until one has learned His Word to the point where they can discern between personaly feelings and His voice... they should rely on the written Word primarily.

Krispy



Krispy

This is a very limited view that you have. God will speak in what ever way he choses. The very first night in Church, I heard God speak to me directly through the preaching. His voice was so strong and clear to me I even looked round at at the congregation and asked my myself "does this people know that God is talking to me".

I heard his voice and I knew who it was it was God.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/9/30 13:38Profile









 Re:

No, my view isnt narrow... you simply dont understand what I said.

Krispy

 2008/9/30 14:53
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Re:

I'm sorry Krispy.
But let me just get this out straight.
It's one thing I always wanted to say when looking at your posts..

Well, I would actually like to ask you.. with a bit of anger..honestly..
"Why are you being such a baby all the time?"

But.. besides that.
Jesus said,
"You study the scriptures thinking that in them you have eternal life, when these scriptures talked about ME"
"The word (that is the Bible) was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."

I'm not for people who always want to hear the voice of God, and I'm also not for the people who only talk about the Bible.
Do you know that you cannot actually study the Bible?
I mean, you can study it, but those words won't be life?
You may know the whole book by memeory, but they may not be really a part of you.
The question is not whether we are studying it..
Cause around me I see many who are studying it..
But are we really meeting the Jesus inside the scripture?
Is this scripture really sharper than a double edged sword to my soul?
Are the words becoming flesh (a reality) and is Jesus dwelling with me?
Is Jesus being manifested from these words?
Or am I doing a Bible study?

Cause if we're thinking that the Bible is a book to be studied or a book to give us discenment (which it does both, buts that's not the main function) we're on the wrong track.
If we hold on to the word desiring to meet Jesus.. then we're on the right track.
Same with hearing the voice of God.
If you are desiring to meet Jesus.. and it's not about being in control over things or being able to know things through him, but Jesus that you're trying to go after.. The fountain of life that you are thirsting after, then.. go on brother for your on the right track.

In the end, the dicernment we need come from "fixing you eyes on Jesus" to a a point like Moses in the desert, when Jesus said "The son of man shall be lifted up as a serpent in the desert."

That is the best dicernment. Knowing Him. If you know his heart, then you have discernment. If you know all the right doctrines, but don't have the heart of Jesus.. What's the use.

For example, when we pray for the sick.. If we say we know that Jesus wants to heal this crippled man (he's never past anyone sick in the Bible).. We know that He is here to heal the sick. So we pray for this man. Healing may happen, may not happen.

However, it is when we look at that man with the same eyes that Jesus had.. That desire to rescue this poor fellow from his infirmities.. The "full of compassion" that Jesus had.. The anguish.. Then we can say we know him. Healing will most likely happen then..

The key is to know the heart of Jesus.
His heart is greived not because we don't know the word, but because we don't know Him. True that the two are related...
But there are so many christians without the Bible.. ANd yet when I meet some of them. They know Jesus more than I do, love him more than I do. And so I know that they are further along the road. True that the only scripture they know might be John 3:16.. But, they have the Spirit with them "teaching them about all truth."
Better than most who have the Bible without the Spirit..

 2008/9/30 21:49Profile









 Re:

I would like to add for all who are reading this thread.
I think it's clear that God "speaks" to His people. "Speaks" to His born again children. This does not mean that he continuely has verbal conversations everyday with all his people all the time. Many of us can know what God is saying to us through His word as well as what He has taught us and impressed upon our heart and mind over the months and years.
We should ALWAYS confirnm the communication if it be His voice,our feeeling or impression or sign, ALWAYS CONFIRM WITH HIS WORD, THE BIBLE. Test the spirits.
This is just my thoughts on it. I'm not wanting to get into debate on it. Thanks, John

 2008/9/30 22:36









 Re:

Amen Krispy, I couldn't agree with you more.

 2008/9/30 23:36









 Re:

Quote:
If you know his heart, then you have discernment. If you know all the right doctrines, but don't have the heart of Jesus.. What's the use.



Ok, I am going to restrain myself here....I am weary of hearing/ reading statements like this. I used to say things like this myself until I began to understand HOW IMPORTANT DOCTRINE IS!

My first question is...why do we assume that people actually know doctrine. Are you trying to tell me that the church in America or the west is so given to doctrine that we have missed the heart of God? That's the reason?

Do this for me. Go to 5 people in your church or fellowship or house church, etc. and ask them if they know what they believe about the bible and why they believe it.

Ask them if they can explain what it means to be justified.
Ask them if they can explain what sustitutionary atonement is.
Ask them if they can explain what propitiation is.
Ask them if they can explain what faith is.
Ask them if they can explain what Grace is.(Biblically)
If you can find 5 people in your church that can do that then maybe I can believe that we ...THE CHURCH are so doctrinal that we have missed the heart of God.


These truths are the FOUNDATION of the church. The foundation of the Church is the teaching...the doctrine of the Apostles and the Prophets, Christ being the chief cornerstone...It all points to Christ!

I am not opposed to occasionally being led by a still small voice, but I can tell you this...I have had more sorrow in my life by trying to listen for a voice, than by seeking God in His Word. And the problem with stories about hearing the voice of God outside of His Word is that they are anecdotal at best.

 2008/9/30 23:57









 Re:

Let us resect each others opinion, and if we disagree, then we can always agree to disagree. I personaly think that semantics has a lot to do with misunderstandings. Seeking God in His Word and knowing His voice is not mutually exclusive, they operate in harmony. Just because there are Pharisees out there and just because there are crazy people out there does not change how God communicates with His people....brother Frank

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I have become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have prophecies, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so as to move mountains, and do not have charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I give out all my goods to feed the poor, and though I deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, I am profited nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity has patience, is kind; charity is not envious, is not vain, is not puffed up;
1Co 13:5 does not behave indecently, does not seek her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil.
1Co 13:6 Charity does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth,
1Co 13:7 quietly covers all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

 2008/10/1 0:24
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Re:

I understand brothe Mahoney how what I said may seem like I'm not putting weight on doctrines. Doctrines are so important, but I'm saying the truth of the doctrine in you is more important and more to be the focus.
As you are tired of hearing people who say "It's the heart that counts" (which, by the way, is not what I said, I said that if you have doctrine and not know the heart of Jesus, there's no point) I'm tired of hearing people say, "The Bible, the Bible is the most important."
The bible is a book that without the Holy Spirit are just words.
That's why it's the "sword of the Spirit"
I want people to put more weight on Jesus; not for people to say "know your Bibles" (it sounds so much like something you should study, and so much like "hey, look at me. I know my bible and you don't) but to say..
Know thy Lord..
Know his heart..
What he's aching for..
And of course this man will study the Bible!
Not in a soulish (studying as studying other subjects) way, but in a very spiritual way where the Holy Spirit really starts to show you things.
He'll meditate Like it was his life!
For the fountain of life!

But, "the bible!" It sounds so vague, and to a normal Christian it's like "how can I meet Jesus?"

Tell them to speak an hour in tounges they can do that.
Tell them to read their Bibles.. they can do that.
Tell them to pray, they can do that..
But tell them to meet Jesus.. huh? what was that?
"I meet Jesus through my Bible" is what usually people say..
If the emphasis was more on Jesus, I would love it, but the emphasis is more on the Bible.. Can you feel it?

The scripture should become flesh..
It should become real..
When Paul talks about doctrines, he's not talking about the right answers, but something that is so deep inside of Him.. Things that he's expereinced in such a deep way. Things that are a part of Him.
When we, having not expereinced that, with out heads, understanding what he said, say we know the doctrines.. we're making a mistake.
That's what I'm trying to warn against.
The head part.
The Christian who knows it all up in the brain..
But not in the heart.

Question. By the way.. What is the most important doctrine? The key to looking at scripture?

 2008/10/1 4:27Profile





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