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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Gods Judgement on President Bush

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 Re: The Good the Bad and the Ugly

While I obviously disagree with Dohzman in regard to President Bush, we can agree in where the blame lies .

"How sad that it was Christians who ushered this in. They ushered it in and brought this upon the man and the country by putting their trust in Politics, in Washington, in their bankbooks.

The Lord has just shown us that He can sweep that all away in a heartbeat. The people that have taught that you are entitled to be wealthy, by the mere fact that you are a Christian, will have some hard days ahead of them. In fact, the whole sickness of the entitlement “mindset,” is being dealt with. God is not finished with this nation, yet, He will not always strive with it. When God chastens, we can humble ourselves under His mighty hand and we will be ushered back into His presence. If we become stiff-necked and insist that our security lies in our politicians and our pocketbooks, then God will judge our politicians and our pocketbooks."

 2008/9/23 21:36
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again appolus, and thank you again for your response.

About this,

"Hi Chris....please forgive me if I think you are straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel. I made that statement in regard to when God speaks, despite the reactions of the hearer, it still comes to pass."




You said earlier to the other poster,

"I simply stated what the Lord shared with me, in shocking clarity :) Now you can accept it or reject it, it will matter not to God."




If the sentiment that you suggested above was your intent, it did not at all appear to me to be the case. What you seemed to be saying was that God would be indifferent to this poster's reaction to this word, that is his either accepting or rejecting it.



I don't think this is straining at a gnat at all appollus.

You are making public declarations about the judgments of God and personally interacting with people regarding that when they have questioned you. On the contrary, I think statements like the one you made to Chris are very wheighty.




Thank you again for considering these concerns,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/9/23 21:39Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Brother Frank…

I think that you are truly in danger of speaking words that may or may not be from the Lord. Yet you offer no disclaimer. Instead, you use the words “God told me..,” “the Lord gave me a word,” etc… In other words, the burden of proof for such “words” is now squarely in the lap of God.

But by your own admission, you “spoke against President Bush.” I have noticed that this attitude is reflective in some of your posts. Now, don’t get me wrong: I am not a “Bush defender.” However, I certainly feel that we should be able to rightly divide the word of truth. If a person utters a “word from God,” but interjects much of his own ideas or understanding within it, it ceases to be a “word from God.” I guess it could be a “word from God AND so-and-so.”

Consider what you wrote in your initial post:

Quote:

The nail is the President, who thinks he is in a sure place.


Really? God told you that the President “thinks he is in a sure place?” Is this supernatural knowledge – or is such a claim even verifiable?
Quote:

This is a warning to the Church. All who hang their hopes on this nail will fall when the nail falls.


Really? I don’t know anyone – even the most ardent supporters of the President – who would
hang their hopes” upon him. They may support him over another candidate, but I think that it is a stretch to claim that people are relying on the man for anything other than earthly leadership.
Quote:

You flatterers burdened the nail, you burdened down the nail with your hopes and your dreams and your expectations that all belonged before my throne so I will bring down the nail and all that hangs on it.


Wow! So God is going to “bring down the nail” – who you say is President Bush? And you said this 4 or 5 years ago – before the President easily won reelection? Why didn’t God bring down the nail back then, instead of allowing him to be reelected to another four years of office?
Quote:

Leprosy for Shebna , he will be “tossed like a ball,” from the Valley of Vision because of pride and the contempt of the people. His legacy will be one of shame. "


What does this even mean – and where is the possibility of redemption for the man (well, if all of your supernatural knowledge of him was even true)? If Jesus provided a way of escape even to the lukewarm Church of Laodicea, then why wouldn’t God provide such a way of escape for the President?

Brother, I don’t know that any true believers places all of his faith and trust on a man, a pocketbook, a bank, or even the temporary securities of this present world. So wouldn’t your “word” be better directed at, say, the Republican National Convention (which might actually have individuals who place all of their faith and trust in President Bush, other such men or the things of this world) or to the Democratic National Convention (where individuals might place similar faith in Obama or his policies)? God certainly wants our faith on Him and Him alone. But this has always been the case. We should be so unattached to the things of this world that we are ready to depart at any moment. Our faith should be on the Lord…and the Lord alone.
Quote:

When I saw President Bush stand there and speak yesterday and this morning, I have never seen such a humiliated person.


Really? How do you know that he was even humiliated? I actually watched the speech, and I didn’t see a “humiliated” man. I have seen quite a few humiliate individuals in my life – including myself. I have stood in humiliation from personal failures even as I knelt before the Lord.
Quote:

To have to announce policy’s in front of the whole world, which diametrically oppose everything he stands for, is the severest of judgments.


I really don’t agree with this statement. First of all, the President announces policy – the good, the bad and the ugly – in view of the world nearly every time he introduces it. Why would he be embarrassed of such a thing – and why would we think that such a thing is a severe form of “judgment?” Most of the world “diametrically opposes” the President? Do you have any citations for such a claim? I’ve heard such things repeated online and even in the media, but there is rarely a credible source for such a claim (other than the hope to make the President sound less popular). Yes, there are individuals from around this world who oppose the President, but many of their reasons are fleshly and political at best. Besides, why should he even care about the opinions of mere men anyway?
Quote:

Shebna had to be removed, so that Eliakim could be set up. Shebna represents the man of flesh. He thinks he is secure, he thinks he is prominent, he thinks he is glorious, he is puffed up by pride. Eliakim represents Jesus.


So you are saying Shebna HAD to be removed so that Eliakim could be set up? And I suppose that you are saying that President Bush is represented by Shebna (via your supernatural knowledge of the man’s heart)? And you suppose that Eliakim represents Jesus? Is this in the Word – or is this your interpretation?
Quote:

When the American Christians step away from the flesh and raise up the name of Jesus, they will be restored. And what will be restored?


I suppose that American Christians should ALWAYS walk in the Spirit (and not in the flesh). This way, they would walk in a constant state of revival – regardless of who is in political office or of the events that transpire around us.
Quote:

Chris, perhaps you can share what the Lord gave you in the past?


Actually, brother, these are secret things between the Lord, me, and those individuals with which I shared the things that I felt the Lord revealing. I don’t feel the need to publicize them. I have shared some things publicly that I felt incredibly burdened to share. Yet I didn’t speak these as verbatim from the mouth of God (complete with God’s own grammar and verbal usage). More often than not, they were an overwhelming burden upon my heart that I feared sharing because I am so keenly aware of my own flawed humanity and personal limitations. Yes, they were sometimes in “shocking clarity” – shocking in the sense that I was afraid that the thing that I felt impressed to say might be from my own understanding. When those specific things, events (or even names) proved to be accurate, I was shaken to the bones! This is a strong contrast with the general lack of specificity that many modern would-be prophets often display.

Brother, I know that you mean well. And I certainly do not want to discourage you from sharing those things that are indisputably from the Lord. However, we need to be careful about attributing things to the mouth of God that might very well be from the mind of man. You lay terrible accusations at a man (President Bush) that you do not know. You claim that God told you such things – but you didn’t seem to make an effort to present them to the man (President Bush) himself. This is just a difficult thing to accept as undeniably genuine.

Yes, there is truth behind some of the things that you said. We should not place our faith on the things of this world, but this is an eternal truth and has little to do with the rulers or governments of this present world. Our faith should never rest on a man, a government, other believers, the Church, or the organizations and economies of man. We should be so focused on the face of God that the world and economy around us could come unraveled, and we wouldn’t be greatly fazed.

Please understand that I mean nothing personal by this. I don’t agree with everything in this “word,” and there is nothing even a “tad disingenuous” about it. I love you, dear brother, and hope to see you walk in the fullness of God’s call upon your life.


_________________
Christopher

 2008/9/23 21:40Profile









 Re:

Hi Chris

Did you read the whole thread? The phrase "shocking clarity," is not mine. It was Chris who used the phrase in regard to a word or several words that the Lord had spoken to him. Do I belive that the Lord spoke to Chris with "shocking clarity." I have no reason not to belive that. I would first and foremost think the best of my brother unless whatever the "Lord "had said to Him violated Scripture. That is why I asked him to share it. Yet, perhaps it is not for public consumption, which again is fine. When God speaks to a man, let that man so act. If God says "speak," then one must speak. If He says "go," then one must go.

PS Dont forget Rome Chris :) Time to wake up brothers and sisters and smell the smoke.....Frank

 2008/9/23 21:47









 Re:

Hi Chris...it seems clear where you stand. You have stated your case well. I think it would now be better to leave it before the Lord. Let each man be persuaded. May the Lord bless you brother.........brother Frank

 2008/9/23 21:53
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi appolus,


"Did you read the whole thread? The phrase "shocking clarity," is not mine."


Alright, but I wasn't really concerned about that phrase as much as what followed '...Now you can accept it or reject it, it will matter not to God.'


Now if that wasn't your statement(what followed) I am very sorry! as I must have completely misunderstood.




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/9/23 21:54Profile









 Re:

Brother ChrisJD...perhaps we should agree to disagree for the sake of brotherly love. As I said to Chris, let us each be persuaded of what we say, for we give an account to the Lord for every word that comes out of our mouth....................brother Frank

 2008/9/23 21:56
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: content

I am content to disagree on Bush.

I am in full agreement with you views that many or much of the church (organized body of professing christians) has placed its hopes on men to do for them what only God can do. But the organized church has always gone down that path, I think thats why Jesus in Rev. said he, and him as in singular and not gender specific (so as not to offend some sisters). Don't you think that the church by in large is set up to place much the our responsibility on one person or one organization to do in our place what we (the many ) really should be doing?


_________________
D.Miller

 2008/9/23 22:04Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3445
Louisiana

 Re:

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

"For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;" (1Timothy 2:1-3

The liberal news media has been having a field day throwing stones at president Bush, but are we to join them? The Word of God says that it is God that has given our leaders the authority that they have, and we are to give thanks for them, to pray and intercede for them, so that we might live a quite a peaceable life.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2008/9/23 22:08Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Appreciate the cordiality amongst you brothers, but this was not a very good idea ...

If we allow this to continue it will not be long before it goes south, the title alone will see to that.

I must therefore go ahead and lock this.

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Mike Balog

 2008/9/23 23:19Profile





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