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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Law

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sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 The Law

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used interchangeably with, "law," "statutes," "precepts," "judgments," "commandments," "testimonies."

HIS WORD = HIS LAW.

"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

When His Spirit is within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to obey His Word - His law. The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

We have abused grace:

"I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

"What shall we say then? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, that grace may abound? God forbid. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA,WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

When Moses disobeyed the Lord and struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter The Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF
OBEDIENCE = FAITH.

ROM 16:26 REFERS "TO THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH."

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH, Lord, shall enter (Rev 22:14) into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of My Father which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (LAWLESSNESS) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we do know that we are in him." 1 John 2:3-5.

True faith obeys His every Word - His law. It is not what we say, but, what we do.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

 2008/9/19 8:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: The Law

Quote:
True faith obeys His every Word - His law. It is not what we say, but, what we do.




Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new covenant which our High Priest offers to those who hear....

Are we growing in the love of the Word of God? Do we seek to understand the mysteries of God found in Scirpture or do we look to other men crying out ...Know the Lord...if it is the latter you have not found the power of the promise.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/9/19 9:57Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

here is Jesus teaching on the law;

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Its amazing how we can be so astute and scriptural and so far off at the same time!
(I'm preaching to myself)

 2008/9/19 10:47Profile
harvestnow
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Joined: 2008/9/18
Posts: 9


 Re: The Law

Quote:

True faith obeys His every Word - His law. It is not what we say, but, what we do.


Hi, I would have to disagree with this in part, as a Christian I don't obey the ceremonial law, I don't receive circumcision, even though it was commanded in the OT, as Paul said "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace ... For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Gal 4:2-6)."

The correct understanding of the use of the law in the Christian life began to emerge at the reformation, Luther saw it as absolutely necessary for the unsaved, to humble people ("Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin" Rom 3:19-20) and show them their need to depend on Christ alone for salvation, by faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9, Rom 8:1-4).

The law is primarily for the unsaved, to expose sin and prepare the way for Christ (Rom 3:20; Gal 3:23-25). The ultimate clincher on this point is 1 Tim 1:8-11: "We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers. And it is for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me."

As Christians, we only observe the moral part of the Law because it is a reflection of God's character and moral intent (which will never change), but not the rest of it (i.e. we don't murder, commit adultery etc).

Scripture is clear: "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law" (Gal. 5:18). Gal 5:1 is particularly relevant to help us resist the enemies strategy to get us into legalism (trying to live by the law, not by the Spirit: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Cor 3:6).

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." (Gal 5:1).

One final point, your equation with "HIS WORD = HIS LAW" needs to be considered in the context of when it was written. For the writers of the Psalms, the only inspired Scripture they had to draw on was the Pentateuch (the first five books of our bible), so they could use the "word" and the "law" interchangeably.

But for us (and for later OT saints), we have many more writings in inspired Scripture (the prophets, NT etc), so for us, his word doesn’t equal his law, the law is only the first part of God's word for Christians. The law must be understood in light of the cross and the context of all of Scripture to avoid its misuse (as 1 Tim 1:8 infers is very possible).

Phew, sorry very long, I have had this discussion with many Seven-Day Adventists friends so I could write a lot more but this is enough for now!

God bless ya stacks,
Chris


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Chris

 2008/9/19 12:05Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

The Ceremonial law pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus and was fulfilled. Circumcision is now of the heart, washings are baptism, Jesus, the clean was sacrificed for the unclean, so that we may be clean. The Sabbath Feast Days were fulfilled:

Passover: our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin
Tabernacles: He "tabernacled among us"...

If the ceremonial law had not been fulfilled, we would, still, sacrifice animals.

CEREMONIAL LAW:

1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15
2. Was spoken by Moses. :ev 1:1-3
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark (to show it's temporal nature)
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15.

THE TEN COMMANDMENT COVENANT:

1. Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:8
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20;Heb 9:4
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8.
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18.

The Ten Commandment Covenant deals with our character and is used by the Holy Spirit in our on-going process of sactification.

Surely, you don't think, that, you can bow down and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor your parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk with a holy God? That would be blasphemy.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19.

 2008/9/19 13:43Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Men did not abide by Gods law before or after it was written.

the law,although perfect,is flawed in its application to man.

In Galatians it says "there was no law given that could impart life.

The law being broken necessitates a death. But no resurrection. No life,only atonement.
Jesus said "I came that they might have life and that more abundantly."
If I emphasize the law over the law giver,I am in a sense, emphasizing death.
I am surprised that in Jesus teaching on the law he would showcase love as the core of the law. I would have thought he would have seized the opportunity to reveal the sin of all and appropriately shown them their doom without a savior.
I notice also he passes up the opportunity to judge the woman taken in adultery.

Awesome!

But love and God are inseparable and the word says mercy triumphs over judgement.
He is our high priest and now ever lives and writes his law on our hearts.

Loving God and loving your neighbor.

On this hangs ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

 2008/9/19 15:35Profile
Miccah
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Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Works = filthy rags.

You always make me sound like a Calvanist sscr01


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Christiaan

 2008/9/19 17:02Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

We, certainly, cannot trust in the emotions of our own hearts to determine how to love God and others.

"Let not thine heart decline to her ways,go not astray in her paths. For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death." Pro 7:25-27.

What does the Scripture say about loving God and others?

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus said, "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth Me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

"By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God, (#1) and keep His commandments. FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

"And this is love that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

HIS CHURCH KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

HIS SAINTS KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions ("of the law" 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

COVENANTS HAVE CONDITIONS.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"And being made perfect, He became the author of ETERNAL SALVATION, UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9.

If you transgress His law, you will not enter (Mt 7:21; Rev 22:14) into the Kingdom of heaven.

 2008/9/19 17:15Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

"Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father (Ga 3:7,29) JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

(Abraham was ready to be obedient to the voice (Word) of God, until, the Lord stopped him.)

Seest thou how FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, and BY WORKS was faith made PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed (FAITH) God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.

Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and not by faith only...for as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith withou works is dead also." James 2.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"And being made perfect, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION, UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9.

"...for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

 2008/9/19 17:23Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: The Law

Quote:
True faith obeys His every Word - His law. It is not what we say, but, what we do.



It is true that where faith has received the Father's love, obedience accepts the Father's will. But, we must be very careful not to emphasize outward rules. The truth is that it's not primarily about what we say or what we do, rather it's primarily about being "in Christ."

The main emphasis in the New Testament is about the inner life, it's about a Spirit-filled life. That's not to say that we should not obey, it just means that the obedience must come from the inner life. If it doesn't come from an inner life then it is legalism to the core. Therefore let the inner life always be our main emphasis.

We don’t need chains to keep us holy, we now have the Holy Spirit to do that. The Spirit filled life should be our emphasis, not rules. God has made provision for every believer to walk just as Jesus walked, completely submitted to God’s will and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Jesus lived by the Spirit and although the Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Law He was purer than all those religious men.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2008/9/19 20:44Profile





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