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harvestnow
Member



Joined: 2008/9/18
Posts: 9


 Good revival theology???

Hi, I have read lots of books on revival and I have found few that develop revival's theological underpinnings in the context of contemporary theology and systematic theology in general. A focus on revival is seen by most in the church as theologically unsound, fanatical and likely to burn people out, or at least discourage people when it never happens, despite all their prayers.

Personally, I can't stop praying for it, studying and reading about it. Also, the fleeting experiences I have had of the Holy Spirit coming in power, in conviction of sin leading to radical converts, and miraculous healing have made me hungry for much, much more and on a much greater scale.

If revival really is a possibility in our unbelieving age where the church is either bound by postmodern paralysis, a suffocating prosperity focus or a legalistic deadness, and if God wants to send revival, and if it could lead to similar effects as the First or Second Great Awakenings (i.e. a good chunk of the population beings saved and the course of Western history being re-directed), then this topic is of vital theological and practical concern in the church!!

Some branches of contemporary theology have become very focused on eschatology and the Kingdom of God; they would claim that the kingdom of God is 'the' central theme in Scripture, but they are not really that interested in what this kingdom looks like when it breaks into our world (except perhaps the social justice dimension). Has anyone ever read any books examining the relationship between the Kingdom of God and evangelical revival??

There seems to be a strong correlation between these two. The eschatological tension between the kingdom now and future is often used to explain away why people don't get healed, and why the church is not doing so well, but could not the kingdom coming in power be God's will and desire, more than his withholding of it?? (Jesus told us to pray: "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven")

Surely the kingdom coming in power today, looks the same as it was in the day of Jesus and the apostles, and in past revivals in church history: mighty conviction of sin, regeneration and salvation, and in Pentecostal revivals: visions, healings, demons being cast out, etc ("But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." Matthew 12:28). Could this outpouring of God's Spirit (i.e. revival) not be called the sovereign in-breaking of the Kingdom of God??

Has anyone else found any good discussions on the relationship of revival with wider theology or any better theological framework to examine revival within??


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Chris

 2008/9/18 15:53Profile
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re: Good revival theology???

One book called "The Kingdom the Turned the World Upside Down" by David Bercot.

He is not necessarily addressing "revival" theology; but the issues he discusses could well be the difference between having revival, and the responses to revival, and none.

Blessings,
Lori


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Lori Salyer

 2008/9/18 18:19Profile
Ruach34
Member



Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296
Beijing

 Re: Good revival theology???

Hey HarvestNow. I am of the same mind and am studying this more as it burns brighter within me. It seems I have done much study, prayer and preaching just to see the revival. It is as if I have said, if I do this then revival will happen. In my opinion much of world serves God on the same plane. They say, "I will help myself to God, on my own time and in my own way." It seems to be an attitude of churchdom. Duncan Campbell says it well, "So much of the steam is not going to the piston but out the whistle."
Rather, he says, God does not respond because we pray for it, but first humble ourselves and then pray, just like 2 Chronicles 7:14 says. God honors His Word and covenant. "If my people...will 1) humble themselves and 2) pray. In that order.
Rather we ought to ask that God might help Himself to us, as He wishes and in His way. Richard Owen Roberts talks about a great error in the church today being our view of God. God has been brought low, and in a low view of God we have quite a high view of ourselves. With a high view of ourselves we have a dangerously low view of sin.

Duncan Campbell, Richard Owen Roberts, J Edwin Orr and a host of others are ones who have a great view of God and talk about it.
Roberts has two sermons, in video format, that talk about the Nature of Revival and the Theology of Revival. Very simple but powerful teaching. I'm not sure if it is on this website, but can be found on sermonaudio.

Let's dialogue...and encourage one another. if you cannot find these videos and want to see them, PM me and I will make sure you get them.

FOR HIS GLORY!


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RICH

 2008/9/18 18:49Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Good revival theology???

I think Jonathan Edward's [i]Religion Affections[/i] would be very helpful. I have read it, and it is an in-depth treatise on revival, genuine conversion, and its counterfeits from someone who was a central part of the 1st Great Awakening.


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/9/18 18:50Profile
theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

A shorter, more introductory book to Edwards' "Religious Affections", is his other little gem, "A Surprising Work of God." I recommend it.

 2008/9/18 22:01Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Good revival theology???

Quote:
Rather we ought to ask that God might help Himself to us, as He wishes and in His way. Richard Owen Roberts talks about a great error in the church today being our view of God. God has been brought low, and in a low view of God we have quite a high view of ourselves. With a high view of ourselves we have a dangerously low view of sin.



Excellent post Ruach34 -

The metioned messages are available here, highly recommended ...


[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=279&min=20&orderby=titleA&show=20]Richard Owen Roberts[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2008/9/18 22:47Profile
harvestnow
Member



Joined: 2008/9/18
Posts: 9


 Re: Good revival theology???

Quote:

Rather we ought to ask that God might help Himself to us, as He wishes and in His way. Richard Owen Roberts talks about a great error in the church today being our view of God. God has been brought low, and in a low view of God we have quite a high view of ourselves. With a high view of ourselves we have a dangerously low view of sin.



Hi, thanks Ruach34 for your encouragement, I have Richard Owen Robert's books on repentance and another of his on revival and will read them soon (and listen to the sermons as well)! I think when God places a burden for revival; it would be disobedient to not pray for it. It is not presumptuous to pray for revival when we have a God given burden. Perhaps many receive this burden but give up praying for it??

I also have an Arminian perspective on things, so am sometimes a little uncomfortable with what I perceive as a more passive stance on the fate of the lost, that I feel Calvinists have when discussing revival. Better to err on the side of prayer for the Kingdom and preaching the gospel than passivity (this is my bent anyway).

Also, this is a discussion for another forum post, but I don't believe an Arminian perspective has a low view of sin, but rather an even higher view of it, as the choice to reject Christ is free and therefore so much more terrible (and it also has a high view of God), but I will say no more!

I know many who have had the experience of praying for his Kingdom (or revival?) to come on a local level and have had these prayers answered in dramatic ways (Jesus told us to pray: "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven", so it always his will to bring the Kingdom in one sense), and I suspect the truly burdened corporate prayers of humbled saints will invite and receive the Spirit's activity on much greater scale as well.

"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you ... If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:9, 13).


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Chris

 2008/9/20 9:57Profile
harvestnow
Member



Joined: 2008/9/18
Posts: 9


 Re:

Cheers, for everyone else's suggestions as well.


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Chris

 2008/9/20 10:02Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3460
Louisiana

 Re:

"Has anyone ever read any books examining the relationship between the Kingdom of God and evangelical revival??"

Brother, I believe that when we are praying for revival that we are praying for the kingdom of God to come, and when we are praying as Jesus taught on to pray "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", then we are praying for revival. For the kingdom of God is the rule and reign of Jesus Christ, and a true revival is the Holy Spirit coming in power and doing the work of the kingdom through men.

Men have been afraid to talk much about the kingdom coming because of the extreme teaching that Christians are going to take over the world before Jesus comes. We know that this is contrary to the Word of God. However, Christians are not to passively await the return of Jesus while the powers of darkness have their way in this world. Christians are to occupy until Jesus comes, and whatever sphere of life that the Lord has us in, we should be claiming it for His kingdom, being salt and light.

Mike


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Mike

 2008/9/20 13:47Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1057
Germany NRW

 Re: Good revival theology???

Yes, there are good books about revival, I recommend "Why Revival Tarries" and the sequel "Revival God's Way" by our beloved Leonard Ravenhill. Let me also give a note of warning: You can have your heart warmed by reading all the good books and not have an inkling of passion for yourself. There is a lot of study going on about revival, tons of books and dissertations are written about it. False apostles and prophets refer to true moves of God and want their ministry seen as a succession of historic revivals; they derive the validity of their ministry by making lot of references to them.
You can have all the knowledge about moves of God's and be as cold as a stone. Our full bookshelves will witness against us and pronounce us guilty of knowing it all and doing nothing about it. God forbid that we are only hearers and knowers but not doers.

Narrowpath

(edited for spelling mistakes.)

 2008/9/20 14:33Profile





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