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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Todd Bentley

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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.


Winthrup, how are you?


I was reading through the posts here and I'm wondering about something that you wrote. I'm sorry to detract from the discussion, but it seems important enough to ask. You had said,





"As I said previously, and I want to emphasize, I think the only safeguard is God, His Word; Having the entirety of one's life hidden in Christ as a living sacrifice."


It seems as though you are making this statement in the context of being safe from deception? But, are you suggesting that a believer's life is not fully hidden in Christ except they have some particular measure of devotion?




This seems contrary to the Apostle's teaching in Colossians 3:3.




Thank you for your time,

Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/9/16 22:03Profile
winthrup7
Member



Joined: 2006/11/6
Posts: 12


 Re:

Quote:
"As I said previously, and I want to emphasize, I think the only safeguard is God, His Word; Having the entirety of one's life hidden in Christ as a living sacrifice."



your quote:
Quote:
It seems as though you are making this statement in the context of being safe from deception? But, are you suggesting that a believer's life is not fully hidden in Christ except they have some particular measure of devotion? This seems contrary to the Apostle's teaching in Colossians 3:3.



Hello Chris. I do not wish to imply that in any way works is the basis for the reality of Christ being in you, or your life hid with Christ as Colossians 3 says. I want to make that clear. As toward my statement, I would point to the second half of that statement which says: "as a living sacrifice". I think that is clearly instructive as Paul Beseeches us by the mercies of God. That is for the church, those who are in Christ, seated in heavenly places.

And I think you can find instruction and exhortation based on the reality of Christ in you in Col 3:
If ye then be risen with Christ,

[u]seek those[/u] things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. [u]Set your affection[/u] on things above, not on things on the earth....

Why? "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

Mortify therefore...v5
But now ye also put off...v8
put on the new [man]...v10
Put on therefore...v12

So I think living in the reality of a life hid in Christ means we participate and walk in God's Word but you cannot earn your salvation by a type of devotion.

The point I do think considering is this: Understanding God's will as Paul stated (see below passages) did not seem to be "automatic" for everyone just because they were saved. There was exhortation and instruction needed. I think Colossians 3 illustrates that very well. Since you are raised with Christ, [then]...

Paul prayed and desired that we would under and approve those things which are excellent. He beseeched us by God's Mercy to present ourselves to him a living sacrifice. Oh how we need that instruction today. On that note, I loved the article someone posted from David Wilkerson called the Blink Generation. It kind of talked about how impulsive we make decisions. It's on his blog as well. Might be worth a read.

With regard to the word hide, there are some wonderful passages in Psalms regarding his promise to keep us. May we hide his word in our hearts. Here's one:

"Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues." (Psalms 31:20)

Hope that answers your question. thanks.

edit: for readability.

 2008/9/16 23:03Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again winthrup and thank you for the reponse, I think it was helpful :)






"And I think you can find instruction and exhortation based on the reality of Christ in you in Col 3:

If ye then be risen with Christ,"



Right, I think that is a good point. My concern was whether or not you were suggesting that a believer's life is not fully hidden in Christ unless it [b]first[/b] meets some measure of conformity or some other standard; it seems to me that if we approach it from that end that we are reversing the order.


I was reading in Colossians this morning and what stood out to me was the many declarations that the Apostle makes concerning believers [b]before[/b] he gives the exhortations in chapter 3.


He writes to them of their having a hope in Heaven and of how the Gospel was bearing fruit in them and of how they had known the grace of God in truth, and of their being made meet or fit? for(EDIT: to be partakers of) the inheritance, and of being delievered from the power of darkness, of their being redeemed, forgiven, reconciled, and of having Christ in them the hope of Glory.


He says they were complete in Christ, circumcised in Christ, buried and risen with Christ, quickened with Christ and forgiven of all trespasses. And he says that they had preached Christ that they may present every man perfect in Him.



It seems to me that to reverse this order or to suggest that we must conform ourselves [b]first[/b] to Christ, in order to be [u][b]fully[/u][/b] in Him, is to flip the Gospel on it's head?




Does that make sense at all?


Thanks for taking the time to respond, and again, I'm sorry to distract from the topic if I have but I thought this was important enough to ask,


Chris



[i]Edited for clarification and to correct a typing error[/i]


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/9/17 22:26Profile
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

I wanted to attach this article here Driven to Darkness by David Wilkerson.

http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1980s/ts870803.html

In this article, it talks about how David W. thought that this performer was a real Christian after the performer shared with him . How genuine etc he was but later it turned out that the person has been misled to the devil's side and this was revealed to David Wilkerson in a Christian festival. This article has a special meaning to me because when I was reading this article, I was going through 'a similar thing (with another person from a forum')--just being deceived--no holy spirit groaning in me. I stopped reading the article halfway to check on the other forum. After which I came back to finish the article. Both David W. and I were fooled in this instance by the genuiness of the people.

Edited post to include some words to clarify


_________________
geraldine

 2008/9/22 15:58Profile
Ruach34
Member



Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296
Beijing

 Re:

Wow, what a strong word. That was an Art Katz kind of word. It was plain, while reading, this is a word from the Holy Spirit.

"all work is judged by light..." not results.

wow...


_________________
RICH

 2008/9/22 17:13Profile





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