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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3486
Louisiana

 Re: Christian singer admits he's gay

It is sad that much of the Church accepts practicing homosexuals into their congregation without preaching the truth to them.

The Apostle Paul had to write a very strong letter to the Corinthian believers because they were allowing a man to live in a immoral relationship and still be called a brother.

We are facing a day in this country that to preach against homosexuality will be outlawed as a hate crime.

Jesus died for the homosexual, and He is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance.

We are not helping homosexuals by allowing them to feel secure in their sin.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2008/9/15 21:57Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

Intens4Him wrote:

I do catch your meaning but wanted to lovingly point out that there are a few other sins that we ourselves could be committing that are an abomination to God . . . Like eating shark, swordfish, catfish,shrimp, crabs, lobsters, clams, oysters, and many others. Oh, and of course, bacon!!! (Pork and rabbit, just to name a couple.) Leviticus says, "they shall be an abomination unto you:"



Acts 10:11-16

11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven."

Plus, I could have sworn there were a few fishermen in the Bible...


:-( :-)

 2008/9/15 22:28Profile
JoanM
Member



Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re: 2 Thess. 2: 10-12/"christian music gospel"

[u]Wonderful find Intens4Him[/u]: 2 Thess 2.10b -12 says, [i]"because they [b]received not[/b] the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”[/i]

I had underlined “the love of the truth” before. I am going to explore if both meanings that occur to me today apply: receive a caring for the truth AND/OR receive the LOVE that is (in) the Truth. In this second way, I am thinking received the Love of God in the Truth of God, the Father in Jesus and Jesus in the Father (John 14:10-11). The Word of God says, “God is Love” and Jesus is Truth/the Truth. Thank you for pointing out that verse. Maybe we can make progress (equipping progress) in understanding this subject. Still thinking and praying.

This is encouraging in that loving the truth, and walking that out in transparent honesty, could put a person on speaking ground with God even if they had not yet heard Divine Truth.

Here are the pieces of this man life, reported in an interview with him, that stood out to me. Again, 30-years and no Gospel preached? And no one to pray with and for him? What is it, academic teaching? HmmHmm just posted a message: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25192&forum=34] The Holy Spirits Power[/url] that may address this.

1. He discovered rock music in high school. Lying on his bed at age 17 hearing the Allman Brothers’ “Whipping Post” awoke him to the possibilities of music.
2. the Jesus Movement,
3. a visiting minister invited him to Jacob’s Well, a Christian coffeehouse
4. saw gospel group the Fisherman perform and had a life-altering experience.
5. “That evening had a profound impact on my life,” he says. “I realized that this was the truth and that Jesus was alive … that’s really where I made a commitment to Christ. [b]I decided I could be born again and all of the things I was feeling in the past would fall away and I would have this new life.[/b]”
6. Indiana — for some reason that’s never been fully explored — had become a hotbed of Christian music.
7. “I basically lived an ‘ex-gay’ life — I read every book, I read all the scriptures they use, I did everything to try and change.”
8. “There’s absolutely no question about it … I believed what I sang but in the back of my mind, I always felt I could never quite measure up.”
9. “It’s there on every single record,” he says. “That struggle of accepting myself and my feelings. There’s a lot of pain there and it connected with a lot of people. They weren’t struggling with the same thing necessarily but we all suffer with our humanity.”
10. “I don’t want to be a spokesperson, I don’t want to be a poster boy
11. He and Carol Boltz remain close (their divorce was finalized early this year). She’s become involved with the gay advocacy group Soulforce but declined, through Boltz, to be interviewed for this story.

Number 5 is a strong argument against the words of today’s “Christian music” ministering life.

 2008/9/15 23:08Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

You gotta wonder what is going through a persons mind to turn to homosexuality.
Then you gotta wonder what makes them confess it and instead of seeking cleansing,seek to find acceptance.

He was a superstar. What goes up must come down.


David

 2008/9/16 1:46Profile









 Re:

[b]Intens4Him[/b]... Ben hit the nail on the head. We can point to the NT and show where we are set free from the Law because it was fulfilled thru Jesus Christ. The Word specifically tells us that all those things you pointed to as being abomination in the OT were declared clean by God in the NT after Jesus' death burial and resurrection.

However, homosexuality and other forms of sexual immorality were [b]never[/b] declared clean... and in fact condemned in the NT just as strongly as it was in the OT.

You're comparing apples to oranges, brother.

Kinda surprising to me that you use the same exact "defense" (altho I know you're not defending homosexuality) that homosexuals use. Call it an abomination and the sodomite begins to list off abominations like eating shell fish, etc. That argument only makes sense if you take it out of context of the WHOLE Word of God.

Krispy

 2008/9/16 7:50
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Christian singer admits he's gay

Quote:
Can you imagine if we all decided that it was ok to just live out our desires... because after all, God created us like that (with those desires)?



Precisely.

Went over to the link presented earlier and did not see anything explicitly stated other than the aforementioned; [i]"Earlier, Boltz had alluded to the issue on his official website, saying that if people “knew who I really was, I would never be accepted."[/i]. And my question would be, why the reserve? Perhaps I didn't look hard enough ... But the wonder is if there is not still some shame associated that hedges at a full disclosure.

[i]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.[/i] 1Co 6:9,10

[i]But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/i] Rev 21:8

The comparable sin listings that often come about in these situations I find somewhat suspect in that they try not to play down the one in question but inevitably end up doing so anyway.

Nevertheless there is enough reproach to go around, not short of the so called 'church' mentioned in this article and linked by way of his blog [i]The Metropolitan Community Church of Washington, D.C. Both congregations are a part of a denomination that embraces the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) community.[/i] A glance at the hierarchy alone is decidedly wrong and the cowards are men - There is more to the role-reversals than the agenda of acceptance going on here.

This precisely where the church at large is now upside down well detached from it's moorings. It is practically inconceivable to see it as it is in plain sight and not be aghast - Have you no shame?

Much could be said and I find it difficult to find much sympathy with the struggle bereft of some truly needed perspective. That is difficult to put that way but I mean it differently than it may sound. I am going somewhere with this but first what strikes me cold is the self-centered life. Even the interview itself is full of personal application; "[i]I, me, myself[/i]". And these 'churches' feed it to the mases - Self realization (Your Best Life Now), self-acceptance, self - 'expression' which translates into "This is just who I am". The logical deduction from all this is that we should therefore have churches of thieves, that can steal from the collection plate (because they cannot help themselves), add full bars to go along with the coffee stands to support the drunkards, a toddlers area for the grown up cowards ... Where does it end? KFC for the gluttonous?

Unapologetically I present that these messages ought to be placed in every church in the nation and beyond - They ought to be heard for their own merits of how far astray the church is. Be it these in question or the Word of Presumption, prosperity driven, prophecy contorted, anemic, dead ... parsed bible society mindset that has overtaken whole denominations and constructs. It is madness and apostasy.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25079&forum=34#196592]Spurgeon - Mueller - An Important Series ~ Piper's Biographies[/url]

There are two that stand out more at the moment as they are still fresh in my mind and in the challenge of perspective. It is interesting to hear two different time frames back to back. First listening to the life of Athanasius and then the tremendous recognitions by comparison, to that of Adroniram Judson.

In the former it was the adamantcy of the importance of doctrine- scripture - definitions. The madness that Athanasius went up against in defending the faith before the heresies of his time by the way the bishops went about whispering to each other and stating that they believed the same things. I cannot do it justice here but it is well worth the listen.

The later, Adroniram Judson is a devastating blow to what and I will speak only for myself here, to what constitutes [i]suffering[/i], this new blight on Christianity, that it must be eradicated when the Lord Himself spoke of it factually, as to be expected and in Pipers words, is by [i]design[/i]. What it amounts to compared to what this saint went through is that I know next to nothing, am a million miles away - My complaints, my hardships are the equivalent of gnats buzzing about, a mere annoyance - At the worst, in the trails inwardly they might be a small infestation. I have NO complaints any longer. I know of such little sufferings that I found myself ashamed and smiting myself for the sheer overlooking of so much. It is folly and incomparable. This man presented what it means to die to oneself like no other I have heard, light afflictions is too strong a word for what most of have or go through ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/9/16 9:26Profile









 Re:

Psalm1 asked:

Quote:
You gotta wonder what is going through a persons mind to turn to homosexuality.
Then you gotta wonder what makes them confess it and instead of seeking cleansing,seek to find acceptance.



Here's the answer...

[b]Ephesians 4:18-20[/b]
[i][b]Having the understanding darkened[/b], being alienated from the life of God through the [b]ignorance[/b] that is in them, because of the [b]blindness[/b] of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.[/i]

[b]Romans 1:21-32[/b]
[i]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him [b]not as God[/b], neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [b]Professing themselves to be wise[/b], they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore [b]God also gave them up[/b] to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.[/i]

I think that answers your question.

Krispy


 2008/9/16 11:42









 Re:

Quote:
Intens4Him... Ben hit the nail on the head. We can point to the NT and show where we are set free from the Law because it was fulfilled thru Jesus Christ. The Word specifically tells us that all those things you pointed to as being abomination in the OT were declared clean by God in the NT after Jesus' death burial and resurrection.

However, homosexuality and other forms of sexual immorality were never declared clean... and in fact condemned in the NT just as strongly as it was in the OT.

You're comparing apples to oranges, brother.

Kinda surprising to me that you use the same exact "defense" (altho I know you're not defending homosexuality) that homosexuals use. Call it an abomination and the sodomite begins to list off abominations like eating shell fish, etc. That argument only makes sense if you take it out of context of the WHOLE Word of God.

Krispy



Obviously, several of you never made it past the first paragraph. My point was NOT the eating shell fish. PLEASE reread the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th paragraghs:

Quote:
by Intense on 2008/9/15 19:45
. . . here are some that are very serious abominations UNTO God . . .

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luke 16:15

Let me ask myself and everyone else . . . Since we have been born again, have we EVER misled anyone, exaggerated the truth ever so slightly, or just flat out deceived or lied? These are an abomination UNTO God. Proverbs 11.1; 12.22; 20.10; 20.23; Rev 21.27.



Krispy, are you telling me that Christ's death and resurrection cleansed us from the following:

A false balance is abomination to the LORD:but a just weight is his delight. (Prov 11.1)

Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.(Prov 12.22)

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.(Prov 20.10)

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.(Prov 20.23)

Finally, this scripture in Revelation tells us that they did NOT come through the cross or resurrection.

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.(Rev21.27)

For some of you, are those Scriptures WHOLE Word of God enough for you?

I'll choose to think that maybe it's because some of you never made it past the first paragraph that it seems like the "same exact defense" that homosexuals use.

Judge me and my words, but I am of the belief that if homosexuals actually experienced the "WHOLE Love of God," they would receive the love of the truth." And then be set free.

In my post, I never said that Ray was right for what he was doing or did. I have my own opinion, but it is MINE, my human opinion and I hope I will never again hide behind scriptures in order to judge someone else's abomination while I daily or monthly, (or whenever) I take part in my own abominations. THAT was the point of my first post, not shellfish.

And another point while I have your attention, Really think about this and pray about it but what if our so-called "righteous" judgments on others keeps us from being delivered from our own lusts or sins of the flesh? Just a thought.

Lisa

 2008/9/16 22:03
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:


This man wrote some good music(i think he wrote his own stuff?).
Anyway ....he sang it with such apparent conviction.
My comment was trying to connect the dots.
How a minister of heaven could at the same time not just slip but defect and bring shame to the kingdom.

Has anyone prayed for him? I have to confess I have not but after this I will correct that..

What a terrible thing for this man(brother) to defect like this.

Just sad,sad,sad


Lord Jesus help this man. Deliver him by your power and might. May this horrible report be turned around.


David

 2008/9/16 23:39Profile









 Re:

Lisa... you misunderstood my points as much as I may have misunderstood yours. But I'm not gonna spend time going back and forth over it.

Krispy

 2008/9/17 7:25





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