Wow, this is disappointing to me and I agree with your comments, Krittr.
| 2008/9/15 11:52||Profile|
I actually liked some of Ray Boltz' older music. I haven't heard any new music from the guy in years, and wondered whatever became of him. It is heartbreaking to learn this.
I suppose that the only good thing about all of this is that Boltz realized that this was a sin for many years. Somehow, it seems, he was recently deceived to think that this was "normal" or "acceptable." Perhaps Mr. Boltz hasn't fallen so far into sin as to be beyond repentance? Perhaps believers can reach out with the love of God and explain the error of his thinking?
This news makes me wonder the origin of one of his songs:
[b]Do you still feel the nails?[/b]
by RAY BOLTZ
©1989 Shepherd Boy Music/ASCAP and SonWorshippers/ASCAP
They tell me Jesus died
For my transgressions
And that He paid that price
A long long time ago
When He gave His life for me
On a hill called Calvary
But there's something else
I want to know
Does He still feel the nails
Every time I fail?
Does He hear the crowd cry,
Am I causing Him pain?
Then I know I've got to change
I just can't bear the thought
Of hurting Him
It seems that I'm so good
At breaking promises
And I treat His precious grace
But each time He forgives
What if He relives
The agony He felt on that tree?
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord
Do you still feel the nails
Every time I fail?
Have I crucified you, Jesus,
With my sin?
I'm tired of playing games
I really want to change
I never want to hurt You again
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord
May the Lord use someone to reach out with the truth to this fallen singer! Please join in prayer for this man and his family!
| 2008/9/15 11:54||Profile|
Can you imagine if we all decided that it was ok to just live out our desires... because after all, God created us like that (with those desires)?
It would be total chaos!
This whole idea that we should live out who we "really are" is absurd. If I lived out my own desires I would have murdered someone by now... be living inside a whisky bottle, coon doggin' after every short skirt I saw... etc etc. But hey, I would be who I truly am!
Thank God we have been set free from who we truly are! No one is righteous, yet that is what we are called to. God didnt call us to be ourselves, He called us to be like Him.
| 2008/9/15 13:04|
Go ahead Krittr, preach it! this is why the preaching of the cross must be top priority in this day and age. Preachers must preach the total death of believers through Christ or else there is easy-believism and everyone does what is right in their own eyes.
O Lord, we have diminished your finished work on the cross and consider it to be a license to remain in sin. Forgive us and may we walk in complete death and abandonment to our self life so that we may show the world what it truly means to be born-again, saved, holy, and a christian!
| 2008/9/15 14:25||Profile|
It sounds so much like people are selfishly becoming "lovers of themselves" rather than loves of God!
This is truly heartbreaking! I feel for this man -- and pray that he repents! I also pray for his family. May God give them strength in the midst of such pain. May these children fix their eyes upon Jesus rather than the sins of their father!
| 2008/9/15 14:26||Profile|
| Re: Two good things|
I can see two good things that might come out of a discussion of this issue: FIRST, examining ourselves (individually and as the Body of Christ) and SECONDLY, learning application of the Word of God regarding this sin from one another here.
May we examine ourselves in these days.
30 years in what is called Christian music. 30 years in resisting the outward acting on temptation. 30 years is a long time to never come across someone with discernment, never come across a pastor or a mature Christian who knew the way to reconciliation and restoration, who knew the Love of God, who knew ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED. Was there no one to confide in? Alone, possibly unsaved, in a 30-year struggle.
To know the Divine Love of God, the accepted in the Beloved, nothing can separate us from that including the sin of fellow believers (the ones with discernment and Truth but not enough with Love to spiritually restore). Here there is no need to seek acceptance with unredeemed sinners blinded by false doctrine.
I know there are those who give a testimony of freedom in Christ from this sin and even have outreaches, and present facts to lawmakers and professional organizations (AMA, APA). Where are the such were some of you in the Body?
Krispy, OF COURSE he risks being raised up as a poster child where false doctrine abounds. The believing church does this very thing so why wouldnt these congregations.
I do not want to discuss this man. Who here walked with him? No one here ministered to him. Maybe he did not struggle with sin, but how many do struggle that we walk with, knowing the scripture (or some of it) but not the power of God. Who on this site does NOT know struggle? Who on this site does not desperately cling to the little they have, grateful (even rightly), satisfied with making do, with just getting through until ... What? ... Until our own flesh death? Until the rapture?
What ever it is that has happened in the Body of Christ, at least in North America and the West, we need the manifest presence of God. [b]We need Revival[/b]. So ... Is the truth presented everywhere on this site about revival believed? Prayed for? Do we forget that it is not natural to anyone to pray? The carnal mind is enmity against God. (Ryle) Tell him you would pray better, but you cannot, till he pleases to help you. (Watts Sr. from prison to his 11-year-old son, Isaac Watts). Do we even know prayerlessness as sin? What it means about our condition, our faith, and our intimacy with God? I think it is a device of our enemy that lulls believers into thoughts like it is enough that God answers my prayers for my children, for what job, for the strength to resist the temptation of lust, etc.. If in fact God does. [b]Prayers for biblical revival, now thats a different thing in this war[/b]. How God saves and equips the Saints in revival.
I pray his coming out be transformed in his thinking to his coming to the end of his hypocrisy. I have hope for anyone who sings about the Lamb of God. I pray his death-grip hold on the lie (God made me this way) becomes sawdust in his mouth and that any heart-cry for Christ he knew in music plague him. Who will bring the truth of our sin nature, after the fall, to him? But I am drifting into the SECOND GOOD THING that could come out of a discussion of this issue. Another post.
[Edit: Yikes. Many posts I have not read on this and will. This could be redundant.]
| 2008/9/15 14:45||Profile|
Joan, good post!
Just would like to point out that everyone here that has posted has said only caring things about Ray Boltz. I cant imagine the struggle he has had... and the fact that as you pointed out, no one picked up on it and helped him. But as Boltz said, he worked hard to keep it from everyone. So it's not exactly the church's fault.
Also, this is exactly what the church gets when they put someone up on a pedastol. We put so much pressure on these people to be perfect and almost super human. We cant continue to do that. The church did that to Bob Dylan... and drove him away.
| 2008/9/15 14:52|
| Re: The second thing|
Drifting into the SECOND GOOD THING that could come out of a discussion of this issue, I know little here.
In my whole life I have had only one discussion with a homosexual that God later saved and freed. It was rooted in Romans 1:19 and Romans 1:21. A four-plus hour conversation with someone who DID believe God was. It included some puzzling through creation rather than evolution but what little uncertainty they had there did not matter to them, because they believed God was. What they had never done, and what they did that day was, in prayer to God alone; they glorified God as God and thank Him. The thanksgiving that poured out humbled me. And the prayer that followed it (coming from the rest of Romans 1). That is all I have witnessed in this specific area. I have never heard or read specifically how others have met God on this.
God deals so individually with us. Do we wait until someone asks?
I do notice that this sin leads directly to vain imagination and darkening a foolish heart. Like a fast track or something. As I read Romans 1 today, I do wonder if, and then how, this might be particularly offensive to God. He hates ALL sin. The only things I can think of is that making an idol out of the very flesh of man (rather than a tree, or money, or your neighbors wife, or a name for yourself), touches worshiping the FALLEN image of God, the flesh of man itself. I think that maybe somewhere in here is a double turning to Self as God, both in the concrete flesh and in spirit (not certain of the word here, human spirit? soul?). It strikes at the root (or close to the root) of Gods design of man. If homosexuality had any part in Gods character there would be no creation. Maybe God particularly hate lies and liars because of Truth (Christ, the Word of God), and drunkenness because of His Holy Spirit.
I need to examine the list that His Word points out and meditate on why that list, why elaborations on some sins and not others. We all understand something of Gods focus on adultery in the Old Testament. Closer to the nature of the heart of Gods character, His purposed will in creation, seems a possibility.
There is so much we will not know until we see Him. I thank God for every bit of Himself that He reveals to us.
| 2008/9/15 14:59||Profile|
Still reading posts.
I love the Body. I do think it is revival or ruin. Oh that we could grow and be equipped, and bring, NO WITNESS, an end to lies about Christ, for His Name's sake.
I think I am ruined for posting here anymore. Every post goes to revival. So sorry, I've lost the ability to type.
| 2008/9/15 15:07||Profile|
I will say this tho, homosexuality is one of the few sins that the Lord specifically calls an "abomination". So I do think there are certain sins which the Lord considers more serious. All sin is serious, but some more than others. I dont know how else to explain what I'm trying to say... but hoping y'all catch my meaning.
I do catch your meaning but wanted to lovingly point out that there are a few other sins that we ourselves could be committing that are an abomination to God . . . Like eating shark, swordfish, catfish,shrimp, crabs, lobsters, clams, oysters, and many others. Oh, and of course, bacon!!! (Pork and rabbit, just to name a couple.) Leviticus says, "they shall be an abomination unto you:"
Lest anyone get caught up of the words of "an abomination 'unto you'," here are some that are very serious abominations UNTO God . . .
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Let me ask myself and everyone else . . . Since we have been born again, have we EVER misled anyone, exaggerated the truth ever so slightly, or just flat out deceived or lied? These are an abomination UNTO God. Proverbs 11.1; 12.22; 20.10; 20.23; Rev 21.27.
So I do think there are certain sins which the Lord considers more serious.
I think those are just as serious in the life of a believer but I'm not trying to argue just point out that there are just as serious sins.
And last but not least, lest any think their abomination is any less than a homosexuals is: A proud heart is an abomination to God. Proverbs 16.5
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." John 8.7b
I really like what Joan said, I can see two good things that might come out of a discussion of this issue: FIRST, examining ourselves (individually and as the Body of Christ).
This is just my personal opinion; I know we may not like homosexuality, but no one said loving the sinner would be clean and pretty!! I honestly think if we cannot present the truth in love (like Joan did for 4 hours), then we should not even attempt to confront anyone in sin until we've first examined ourselves in light of Scripture.
Having said all that.... Joan said again, If homosexuality had any part in Gods character there would be no creation. Maybe God particularly hate lies and liars because of Truth (Christ, the Word of God), and drunkenness because of His Holy Spirit.
I've never seen it like that but I'm leaning towards agreeing with you. 2 Thess 2.10b says, "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Here is the rest 2 Thess 2.11-12 - And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I'm not talking about Boltz or homosexuals in particular here. I'm talking about ANYONE in any walk of life (from the pastor, deacon, blog owner, blog reader, and teacher to the lay person). I'm seeing for myself, that I must be in prayer continually to have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying unto the Church so that I might know what the love of the truth is AND receive it. The love of the Truth is not usually in the Best Selling Chrisitan books either!! (huge grin)
God bless, I just dropped in!! Gotta go.
| 2008/9/15 19:45|