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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Romans 6:6 How does it affect us?

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jerryaustin1
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Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 Romans 6:6 How does it affect us?

Romans 6:6 states " Knowing this that our old man is crucified with him ( Christ), tha the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM.

Romans 6:9 Know that Christ BEING RAISED FROM THE DEAD DIETH NO MORE; death hath no more dominion over him.

A) Christ raised from the dead, DIES NO MORE.

Romans 6:10 For in that he died, HE DIED UNTO SIN ONCE: but that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

B) Christ DIED UNTO SIN ONCE.


Bible clearly states that about Christ:
A) Christ raised from the dead, DIES NO MORE.
B) Christ DIED UNTO SIN ONCE.

Then were are told in Romans 6:11 " LIKEWISE reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Chirst our Lord.
The word "LIKEWISE" is of extreme
importance.


Again Bible clearly states that about Christ:
A) Christ raised from the dead, DIES NO MORE.
B) Christ DIED UNTO SIN ONCE.

And the command is to reckon it "LIKEWISE" for ourselves.


Is Paul exhorting us to hopeful thinking? He is he exhorting us to wishful thinking? Could he be exhorting us to believe something that is not true?

let me make something clear, for I might have be misunderstood by some. I am not saying just because you're saved your free from inbred sin. You must "reckon" it like the Bible says.

Please not immature insults but biblical responses.


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Jerry Austin

 2008/9/9 16:17Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Romans 6:6 How does it affect us?

Quote:

jerryaustin1 wrote:
Is Paul exhorting us to hopeful thinking? He is he exhorting us to wishful thinking? Could he be exhorting us to believe something that is not true?



This is true, our old man is dead, but i think you are confusing the old man with the flesh. Thw two is two separate things. God killed the old man on the cross with Jesus. you reckon that and have faith in that.

now, what do you do?

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

God killed the old man, who lived for sin and loved it, that man is dead. A new man lives, a new heart. But we have a corrupted flesh who have lusts and affections towards sin. So we fight it by Gods grace and crucify it.

God did something, and we have to do something. God killed the old man, we kill the flesh.


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/9/9 16:56Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Good response, Christian. I think it would behoove us to do a study on the word "reckon", which is the key to comprehending this mysterious truth of being dead in Christ - yet at the same time risen with Him and hid with Christ in God.

The blessedness and unbroken victory offered by true Christianity! May God open our eyes.


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/9/9 17:07Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Amen Paul 2, and from Paul 1

Paul specifically states, his death to sin in Christ Jesus and in Christ our life unto God.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

First death, The beginning of the Mystery.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Then Glory in Christ. The fulfillment of the Mysery.

Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Reckoning has a wonderful place in the body of Christ, but in these scripture there is no reckoning, just a statement of facts and truth in Christ Jesus given direct to Paul for our upbuilding in the Body of Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/9/9 19:44Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Reckon:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3049. logizomai
Search for G3049 in KJVSL
logizomai logizomai log-id'-zom-ahee
middle voice from 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively):--conclude, (ac-)count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

See Greek 3056

Also:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2532. kai
Search for G2532 in KJVSL
kai kai kahee
apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:--and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2532. kai
Search for G2532 in KJVSL
kai kai kahee
apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:--and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

Yourselves:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1438. heautou
Search for G1438 in KJVSL
eautou heautou heh-ow-too'
from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive case (dative case or accusative case) of 846; him- (her-, it-, them-, also (in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons) my-, thy-, our-, your-) self (selves), etc.:--alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own(-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them(-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

See Greek 846

Indeed:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3303. men
Search for G3303 in KJVSL
men men men
a primary particle; properly, indicative of affirmation or concession (in fact); usually followed by a contrasted clause with 1161 (this one, the former, etc.):--even, indeed, so, some, truly, verily. Often compounded with other particles in an intensive or asseverative sense.

See Greek 1161

Alive:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2198. zao
Search for G2198 in KJVSL
zaw zao dzah'-o
a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively):--life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.

Quick:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2198. zao
Search for G2198 in KJVSL
zaw zao dzah'-o
a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively):--life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.

Here is our quickening of the flesh:

Ps 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
Ps 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Hebrew Quickened together:

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
2421. chayah
Search for H2421 in KJVSL
hyx chayah khaw-yaw'
a primitive root (compare 2331, 2421); to live, whether literally or figuratively; causatively, to revive:--keep (leave, make) alive, X certainly, give (promise) life, (let, suffer to) live, nourish up, preserve (alive), quicken, recover, repair, restore (to life), revive, (X God) save (alive, life, lives), X surely, be whole.


1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

"Hath He quickened"
Strong's Greek Dictionary
5607. on
Search for G5607 in KJVSL
wn on oan ousa oo'-sah; and the neuter on on
present participle of 1510; being:--be, come, have.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


Greek quickened:

By the Spirit;

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2227. zoopoieo
Search for G2227 in KJVSL
zwopoiew zoopoieo dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
from the same as 2226 and 4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or figuratively):--make alive, give life, quicken.

See Greek 2226
See Greek 4160

By the Spirit, with Him.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/9/9 20:24Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
But we have a corrupted flesh who have lusts and affections towards sin. So we fight it by Gods grace and crucify it



I heard Paris Reidhead say once that temptation is an appeal to the intellect to fulfill a good, natural, God given desire in a [u]bad[/u] way. We have lots of good natural desires such as a desire for knowledge, desire for authority (God gave Adam dominion, etc.) a desire for food, procreation, etc. But the Devil tries to tempt us into fulfilling these good desires in a sinful way. What is the solution?

[color=000066] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also [u]quicken your mortal bodies[/u] by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8)[/color]

The Holy Spirit will quicken our mortal bodies to keep the good natural desires from becoming unnatural lusts. It is part of the fruit of the Spirit of temperance (Gal. 5:23).


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/9/9 22:51Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3537
Louisiana

 Re:

Praise God that when the Lord Jesus died on the cross, we died with Him. Our old sin nature, the old man, that old Adamic nature was crucified with Christ.

Because of what Christ has done on the cross, we can reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God.

Please tell me if I am wrong, but I believe that the flesh and the old man are one in the same.
"They that are Christ have crucifed the flesh with the affections and lusts". (Galatians 5:24). This is saying the same things as Romans 6:6. The affections and lusts have been nailed to the cross with Christ.

The Word of God also teaches us to walk in the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

We are to put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit.

So even though the sin nature has legally been crucified with Christ, our actual experience is that the flesh at times seems to be very much alive, and when the flesh is activated, we are to reckon it as being dead. The Holy Spirit will always respond to this reckoning because it is based on truth, and the Holy Spirit will apply the death of the cross to any lust that is in our flesh.

We are not only dead to sin, but we are alive unto God. We are saved by the grace of God and the life of Christ that is working in us, so that sin shall not have dominion over us, because the law of the Sprit of life that is in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.

Mike


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Mike

 2008/9/10 9:12Profile
mamaluk
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Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Good posts, brethren.

 2008/9/10 18:52Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2749
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I think it would behoove us to do a study on the word "reckon", which is the key to comprehending this mysterious truth of being dead in Christ - yet at the same time risen with Him and hid with Christ in God.



Good idea. I think it would also be beneficial to understand the concept of federal heads of race. Paul doesn't think it's hard to understand that we have died and are risen with Christ, he simply says "we know" and leaves it at that. But our modern individualistic understanding of our race makes it hard to grasp that mankind is a collective whole under the headship of either Adam or Christ. What happens to the head, happens to the body.

Our old man was crucified with Christ on the cross and since Jesus Christ now lives unto God we who are in Him may reckon ourselves to be alive unto God in Christ Jesus. It is not because we reckon it that it becomes a fact, but the opposite; because it is so, we reckon on it. In chapter 6 we have the first mention of, "in Christ" in the letter to the Romans. It's an phrase which emphasises that Christ is the Head of a new humanity, that He now has a new body of which all true believers are living members.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2008/9/10 20:31Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Old Men

Quote:
Please tell me if I am wrong, but I believe that the flesh and the old man are one in the same.



Give this a gander brother, it really gave me a lot of food for thought and a different perspective some time ago;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12137&forum=34&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0]Understanding Mortification[/url]

Scroll down to the middle and read Philologos' reply on this matter. The whole of the post is very edifying and might be considered start to finish, but your comment brought this subsection back to mind.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/9/11 9:10Profile





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