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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Ester is a questionable book!!! maynotBauthentic

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 Re:

By the way, I am not at all pleased that you came on here and possibly planted a seed of doubt in some people's heads about God's Word. You need to be very very careful about things like that.

Krispy

 2008/9/5 10:58
JRuth
Member



Joined: 2008/6/1
Posts: 79
Moscow, PA

 Re: Ester is a questionable book!!! maynotBauthentic

The Bible is Gods Holy Word!!! How DARE you say that Ester is Bogus!!! I agree with Krispy, you should NOT have even mentioned this! Do you know how many young Christians read what people put on here? And what about the unsaved people who get on here to check things out? We, as Christians MUST be VERY,VERY careful what we post on here, you NEVER know who it might damage spiritually!!

~JRuth


_________________
Jessara

 2008/9/5 20:02Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Ester is a questionable book!!! maynotBauthentic

Reply to All

I don’t recommend teachers very often but in the case of Ester I have grown to appreciate the book immensely after listening to.

EXPOSITORY STUDIES IN ESTHER
by Ray C. Stedman

Available on SI

I found it to be as the author advertized, a great study of the working of The Holy Spirit.


Eddie


_________________
Eddie

 2008/9/5 20:04Profile
DoulosQuinn
Member



Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 131


 Re:

I was really shaken up about the essians who preserved Isaiah word for word not bothering to include this book...it still concerns me for the first reasons I posted.

 2009/1/31 16:59Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Quote:
. . . God preserved His Word. The Book of Esther is not bogus. To say there is an error in the Word of God is to say that God doesnt keep His promises. If He doesnt keep His promises then we have nothing.



Brother Krispy,

You are so correct. I believe the entire Bible is the inspired word of God. I, also, believe His hand guided those who assembled His words and passed them along to us. Thank God for the Bible, where would we be without it?

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/1/31 19:17Profile
anonymity
Member



Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 393


 Re:

I think there is wisdom on both sides of what people have been writing so far. I do not feel like breaking it all down technically. I will say though that I think it is good to test things. I believe that we are not called to blind faith but trust based on facts. I also sympathize with not having unbelief or hastily stating things.

I cannot thoroughly answer all of your questions on this book. I have heard things before. I have studied a somewhat good deal of Bibliology but not specifically Esther. I also was not able to immediately able to find any good thorough websites on the book in an apologetic or criticizing sense. If you know of any let me know so that I can look into it?

In short and part I can say of note that Purim the feast of lots is a strong Jewish tradition derived from Esther. I believe it was in effect during Jesus' time and there was no strong rebuke toward it that I have read. So if the tradition was in effect then the book was also probably canonical at that point and Jesus made no mention as to it not being scripture.

In the negative I don't believe that arguments such as God's name not being mentioned and so forth are valid but are a bit soft and incomplete. There is still much truth and harmonizing with the rest Scripture. I for one am persuaded that the Song of Songs is an inspired prophetic account foreshadowing Christ and his bride. I guess maybe I would say "if you can accept it". This is not mentioning the more technical issues.

I would say this that in the harder issues if we are not sure then I would think it not wise to say this and that is false. In many things we have to have an ear to hear. For instance many prophecies had double fulfillment's or John the Baptist was Elijah. A rational thinker may be thrown off by these things and never seen them. Would you hypothetically as an orthodox Jew think it false that God took on the form of a dove or that he was born of a woman.

I can say many other things like some that have been mentioned before. Like the comment that many have tested Scripture when all evidence seemed right and then out of no where proof was found over and over to expose it and back the scriptures. And I can say thing on the other hand that it is somewhat plausible to test things as you mentioned such as the Apocrypha and the legitimacy of those who canonized things. But, I will stop here.

Concluding, the study of Bibliology is a long arduous task but important but often the witness of the Spirit is most important and sometimes all one has like in the 3rd world or ect.

So, I would say if you are interested in this to get books on the Canon of the Bible by such men as F.F. Bruce or others.

It does not seem that there are many here on the SI forum that are students of higher criticism so I would maybe refer you to go to the carm.org forums for there seem to be many there that are well versed in these things. If you do let me know because I would like to see how the thread develops.

I don't really know all of the best resources as I also am interested in time to study Bibliology more thoroughly. I will mention one book that may deal with the topic. It is called "The Big Book of Bible Difficulties from Genesis to Revelation by Norman Geisler". He was one of Joe Holden's mentors and from what I recently read has started a seminary with him at CCBC but separately as Veritas Seminary and interesting will be having a conference soon on the inspiration of the Bible that I might attend if I am in town.

[url=http://www.ask.com/bar?q=norman+giesler+books&page=1&qsrc=145&ab=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26search-type%3Dss%26index%3Dbooks%26field-author%3DNorman%2520L.%2520Geisler%26page%3D1]Geisler Book[/url]

[url=http://veritasseminary.com/edu/]Conference and Seminary[/url]

[url=http://www.ask.com/bar?q=carm&page=1&qsrc=145&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christiandiscussionforums.org%2F]Carm Forum[/url]

 2009/1/31 19:57Profile
graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Re: Ester is a questionable book!!! maynotBauthentic

Quote:
What got me is that these Jewish Scholars...I mean trapped in the law Jew-centered Jew...would challenge its genuineness. It made me think that there is a question about it.



Perhaps you should also question the validity of Jesus as the Messiah, seeing as how the "trapped in the law Jew-centered Jews" of His day questioned and rejected Him as being the authentic Messiah.

Please continue to search out this issue for your own assurance, but I do not believe this is the proper forum for indepth textual criticism discussions on this matter, seeing as how (as far as I know) no one in here is truly schooled in this field. Reality is, all we can do is quote those who have studied the matter and I'm sure that we'll find that not all of the "experts" will concur on their findings. So, in the end, you'll have to put your faith in one of them as being the authority on the issue, yet it will be just that, "faith" in that person's findings.

By the way, I praise God for "sinners turned preacher chronees", simple fishermen-type who aren't educated and who haven't received approval by the powers that be, but in whom it is evident "they have been with Jesus."


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Buck Yates

 2009/1/31 20:20Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
WHAT SAY YOU????????



Having spent a great deal of time studying in a Messianic Jewish Institute I can say that this topic did come up at least once. The fact that it was not found among the Dead Sea Scrolls tells us a lot and very little at the same time. The Essenes were not really main stream. They were a sect. I could offer several reasons why I think it was not there, but they are all speculation.

Many scribes copied by hand the book of Esther as they included it in their writings. Also keep in mind that there are various philosophies withing Rabbinic Judaism today. It may surprise you that many so-called Rabbinic Jews are actually atheists? Art Katz has brought this our before. So definitely don't believe every thing you read from Jewish Scholars.

I agree with Krispy here. We have to be very careful that we don't minister questions about the word of God. It has been said in history that the bible is an anvil that has worn out many of hammer. Some scholars love to hash out subjects based upon some new of novel information they come across. Their beliefs change like the wind. It is best to recognize that God has preserved His word down through the years. It would be foolish to begin cutting anything out- even the smallest jot.



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Robert Wurtz II

 2009/1/31 20:38Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re: Ester is a questionable book!!! maynotBauthentic

Quote:

DoulosQuinn wrote:
Mordecai's name is of Babylonian origin...but the story takes place in Assyria.



Takes place in Assyria?

Biblical history is not one of my strengths, but...

"...That in those days, when the king Ahasuerus sat on the throne of his kingdom, which was in Shushan the palace, in the third year of his reign he made a feast unto all his princes and his servants, the power of Persia and Media..." (Est. 1.2).

Persia and Media, it says.

And Shushan the palace. Where was Shushan?

"In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel... And I saw the vision; and it came to pass, when I was at Shusan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam..." (Dan. 8.1,2).

Belshazzar, one of the kings of Babylon.

And Elam, one of the provinces of the kingdom of Babylon.

Daniel was one of the captives Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon carried exile from Jerusalem to Babylon (Dan. 1.6). But in process of time, God raised up the Medes and the Persians to judge Babylon. They took the kingdom (in one night), and ruled in their stead (Dan. 5.30,31).

So it's actually very likely Mordecai would have had a Babylonian name. So did Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, the three Hebrews Nebuchadnezzar threw into the fiery furnace.

...But even apart from this, yes, granted, the Name of God is not given in the book of Esther. At least, the letter of His Name is not written.

But that Name is whispered again and again and again in the story, in the Spirit of that Name... if we have a listening ear, if we get our ear dowm low enough to hear Him.

...I notice from some of your other posts, Quinn, that you have a heart for God. I understand your concern about the book of Esther, it's not wrong to question things at times. We want to be sure about things. But watch out for those seeds of doubt, lest your faith be subverted. That hunger for God that's been planted in you, give it room to grow. And weed out the seeds of doubt. That's what doubts are. Weeds.

I always go by the following rule. When the word of God seems to be flawed, it's just a revelation that I am still in the place where I know "in part." It's not the word that is flawed. It's my understanding that's flawed.

That book, I will tell you... over the years, oh, what a book. Oh, what a book. And yet at times, what a weak and foolish book it is, or appears to be, at times, to the natural mind. But why should it not be so? "...Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men..."

(See also 1 Cor. 2.14.)

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2009/1/31 23:00Profile









 Re:


To DoulosQuinn:

I also agree with what Krispy, RobertW, & ADisciple Graceamazed, White_Stone, anonymity, JRuth, ginnyrose had to say on this. The Meads and the Persians defeated the Babylonians and set up the 2nd one world Government (with the direction and help of almighty God). The Meads and the Persians had an interesting way of sharing power in running the World. One year the King of the Meads ruled the World, and the next year, the King of the Persians ruled it.


Here is some information that might shed some light on this for you:

[b]Esther (Hebrew: אֶסְתֵּר, Standard Ester Tiberian --Estēr), born Hadassah, is a queen of the Persian Empire in the Hebrew Bible, the queen of Ahasuerus (traditionally identified with Artaxerxes II), and heroine of the Biblical Book of Esther which is named after her. The name Esther comes from the Persian word "star".

As a result of Esther's intervention and influence, Mizrahi Jews lived in the Persian Empire for 2400 years thereafter. Esther's husband Ahasuerus followed in the footsteps of Cyrus the Great, in showing mercy to the Jews of Persia: Cyrus had decreed an end to the Babylonian captivity of the Jews upon his conquest of Babylon in 539 BC[/b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther

Also of interest is that Persia of the Old Testament is Iran of today (same country with a different name).


Sincerly,

Walter

 2009/2/1 2:47





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