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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

James 1:13-15 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This is exactly what Adam said, he blamed it on God because of the woman He gave him.

Adam already had the lust of his own flesh to set against God.

Calvin says it with much wisdom: "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me." The boldness of Adam now more clearly betrays itself; for, so far from being subdued, he breaks forth into coarser blasphemy. He had before been tacitly expostulating with God; now he begins openly to contend with him, and triumphs as one who has broken through all barriers. Whence we perceive what a refractory and indomitable creature man began to be when he became alienated from God; for a lively picture of corrupt nature is presented to us in Adam from the moment of his revolt. Not just the eating of the fruit.

'Every one,' says James, 'is tempted by his own concupiscence,' (Jas 1:14;)

and even Adam, not otherwise than knowingly and willingly, had set himself, as a rebel, against God. Yet, just as if conscious of no evil, he puts his wife as the guilty party in his place. 'Therefore I have eaten,' he says, 'because she gave.' And not content with this, he brings, at the same time, an accusation against God; objecting that the wife, who had brought ruin upon him, had been given by God. We also, trained in the same school of original sin, are too ready to resort to subterfuges of the same kind; but to no purpose; for howsoever incitements and instigations from other quarters may impel us, yet the unbelief which seduces us from obedience to God is within us; the pride is within which brings forth contempt. Calvin.



This the self that Adam was depending on, instead of God. It was not Eve that tempted Adam, it was his own hearkening to a voice that he hearkened and was carried away by his own lust of self.

It was Adams responsibility to care for Eve, he could not even do this, or he would have when Eve presented the fruit, Adam would have taken her immediately to God and get it straitened out, but no Adam wanted to be like God, even in his own lust which was exactly like the father he chose, Satan, "you are of your father the devil", these even being the priest of Israel.

Adam worshiped his own self, in his own lust, and the father he chose to believe, Satan, instead of God. He certainly did not worship Eve, except for his own selfish wants. Which is not worship, but unlawful and unloving, selfish use of the woman God gave him.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/9/9 22:34Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]quote[/b]Calvin says it with much wisdom: "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me." The boldness of Adam now more clearly betrays itself; for, so far from being subdued, he breaks forth into coarser blasphemy. He had before been tacitly expostulating with God; now he begins openly to contend with him, and triumphs as one who has broken through all barriers. Whence we perceive what a refractory and indomitable creature man began to be when he became alienated from God; for a lively picture of corrupt nature is presented to us in Adam from the moment of his revolt. Not just the eating of the fruit.


I'm not talikng about after Adam sinned, This thread is about before.

Quit bringing up points for after Adam sinned.
Fact is, without the tree. Adam & Eve would have had a no way to outwardly, physically worship God which would give them no hinderence to worship each other over God.

Quote:
'Every one,' says James, 'is tempted by his own concupiscence,' (Jas 1:14;)

Without understanding this verse from James, anyone could say that Jesus was "tempted by HIS own concupiscenc".

The word is not "concupiscenc", The word is "desire" or "longing".
These "desires" or "longings" are not necessarily bad or evil. It is only how far one acts one these "desires" or "longings".

Jesus was "desiring" or "longing" for food in HIS fast in the wilderness, this was not a bad or evil "desire" or "longing".
However, if Jesus would have went to far with HIS "desire" or "longing" for food because of HIS hunger, without any regard for anyone else, name His Father, HE would have been drawn out and have been seduced by them and would have sinned.

[b]James 1:15[/b] [color=990000]Then, when this "desire" or "longing" is conceived[/color] [taken hold of selfishly without any regard for anyone else][color=990000], it brings forth sin.[/color]

Adam & Eve took no regard for God, but only each other in their "desire" or "longing" for
[b]1:[/b] food,
[b]2:[/b] the way a food should look as intended to wet and increase appetite.
[b]3:[/b] & this specific "food' had a "promise" to make one wise.
Genesis 3:6

Quote:
and even Adam, not otherwise than knowingly and willingly, had set himself, as a rebel, against God. Yet, just as if conscious of no evil...

Adam knew full well what he was doing, He knew the command of God & had the intent of what he was about to do in his heart already.
He was conscious of the evil, but he supressed the truth(in unrighteousness:Rom 1:18) of what will happen if he eats of the tree.

He lets Eve be seduced by the serpent so that she will be included in his scheme. He did'n't want to leave her out because he had now put her above God(form of worship) in his unlawful desire.

Adam failed to walk after the spirit so as to not fullfill the lust of his flesh, even before he actualy sinned(Romans 8:7, Galatians 5:17b)

Quote:
...he puts his wife as the guilty party in his place

Adam did not set Eve up as a guilty party yet, not before eatng.

Quote:
We also, trained in the same school of original sin, are too ready to resort to subterfuges of the same kind; but to no purpose; for howsoever incitements and instigations from other quarters may impel us, yet the unbelief which seduces us from obedience to God is within us; the pride is within which brings forth contempt. Calvin

What's with this "original sin" stuff.
We are talking about the time befor the disobedience.

We are talking about the flesh & its works as Adam & Eve had& done even before they rebeled.
Compare 1John 2:16 to Genesis 3:6 as I have posted above:
[color=990000]For all that is in the world,[/color]
[b]1:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the flesh[/color]
[b]2:[/b] [color=990000]the lust of the eyes[/color]
[b]3:[/b] [color=990000]the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.[/color]

This proves that they were walking after the flesh as we still do.

Quote:
it was his own hearkening to a voice that he hearkened and was carried away by his own lust of self.

it was not "lust of self", but lust of flesh & eyes including the pride of life.

Quote:
Adam worshiped his own self, in his own lust, and the father he chose to believe, Satan, instead of God.

Adam was only lovingbhimsels even as we do. Jesus even said that we love ourselves when HE said to love our neighbors [b]as ourselves[/b]. The act at the tree wasn't a "worship" of self, but a selfishness.
A selfish worship of Eve.

Quote:
He certainly did not worship Eve, except for his own selfish wants.

Exactly!

Quote:
Which is not worship, but unlawful and unloving, selfish use of the woman God gave him.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

There is nowhere in the scripturse about self worship.
There is a "self-imposed worship" - Colos 2:23, which is actualy a self-imposed religion or worship beyond what God strictly requires; but the Scripturese never speaks about worshiping self.

True, we may exalt ourselves beyond mesure, but that is not worship, but only pride & arrogance in excess of self esteem, selfishness; overly loving ones self.

However, this is only a miss placed affection of love.
One may love an object of affection, but this is not worship.
I love my wife, I do not worship her. I even love myself, but but I don't worship myself.
Self is never thought of as an object of worship, but mammon is. As I sad before, that which is given to you is mammon.
[color=990000]
[/color]

 2008/9/10 12:10Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lust;

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1939. epithumia
Search for G1939 in KJVSL
epiqumia epithumia ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah
from 1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden):--concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

See Greek 1937


"""Quote: Quit bringing up points for after Adam sinned."""

Sin was crouching at the door, and the sin of Adam was already in him to perform. After Adam sinned is only the manifestation of Adam's nature before he chose to obey the evil one.




This is what I meant by self worship;

Isaiah 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

Worship the Idols, making them their God instead of the only true God.

This is mammon, exalting self above God.

Micah 5:13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

This is where without Christ, I stand in my own self worship and giving my own righteousness to the heavens which is rejected by God and without Christ I would be cut off and parish.

Job 20:2-9 Therefore do my thoughts cause me to answer, and for this I make haste. I have heard the check of my reproach, and the spirit of my understanding causeth me to answer. Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he? He shall fly away as a dream, and shall not be found: yea, he shall be chased away as a vision of the night. The eye also which saw him shall see him no more; neither shall his place any more behold him.

Seated in the Heavenlies in Christ Jesus:

Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/9/12 16:54Profile





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