SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : did Jesus really die spiritually

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
PosterThread
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 did Jesus really die spiritually

i have been searching many years on the scriptures that many faith preachers of this day use to say that Jesus was dead spiritually on the cross and died spiritually and went and took the keys of hell and death from the devil in hell. they teach this had to happen and that it was not finished on the cross but in Jesus dying spiritually and going to hell to defeat the devil. i have studied as much as i can find on this and i do not see anywhere in the bible that Jesus' death was spiritual. i would like to know more info from well established men of God who have seached this all the way through . i would like to know what people think about those who see Jesus' death as a spiritual one, of those hardlined preachers that do and the reasons why you think they adhere to this doctrine . to me it seems to take away from what the atonement really is and makes Jesus out to be just a mere man and not God. i have listened to the preachers that teach this and i still do not find it in scripture when i have diligently searched to find where they come up with this, spiritual death of Christ doctrine that is so prevailent.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2008/8/27 18:04Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re: did Jesus really die spiritually

You might would want to start with:

E.W. Kenyon's " Identification-A Romance in Redemption"-chapter 5 " We died with Him".

All I will say for now is: Jesus in scripture is called the second/last Adam

Well, the first Adam, his first death was spritual, then physical. God said the day you eat from this tree you shall surely die-well Adam did die that day spiritually-Jesus, being the last Adam went through this same type of process-Jesus was sinless, yet for him to become sin, or when he did in fact become sin-that was his spiritual death to ENABLE him to be able to EVEN die physically. Christ had to take on death spiritually first, for him to even be able to taste natural/physical death for 3 days-because he blood was that sinless, that pure, and so was his spirit (I refer to his human spirit)

Just like Adam could not die physically, without first dying spiritually-so was Christ. Adam had a body without sin, but I think seldom we forget that Christ came to earth in the same bodiy state as Adam. Both had MIRACOULOUS births-to never be mimicked throughout the rest of time. Adam came directly from the hands of God without a womb, and Christ came into this earth through the womb of a virgin without a natural man.

E. W. Kenyon starts the 5th chapter of Identification off like this:

Jesus died twice on the cross.

The rest, I will leave for you to read. Kenyon doesn't teach that Christ's death was ONLY spiritually, he does teach in fact that there was both a spiritual & physical death which both in fact were temporary.

Hope this helps.

 2008/8/27 22:25Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re: did Jesus really die spiritually

I think it comes from this verse

2 Cor 5:21

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Some interperate that to mean Jesus died Spiritually

 2008/8/27 23:42Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: did Jesus really die spiritually

What you're really asking is could God die??
NO. That which is eternal is immortal.
Jesus was and is divine and eternal. His
self could die, His flesh could perish; but
His Spirit and His life are eternal!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/8/28 6:59Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: did Jesus really die spiritually

Just as Physical death is the seperation of the spirit from body - [b]Eccl 12:7[/b] [color=990000]then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.[/color]
[b]James 2:26[/b] [color=990000]as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.[/color]

So is Spiritual death is a severed relationship between God & man or the seperation of the spirit from God.

Jesus died physically & spiritually on the cross.
Jesus died spiritually when He cried, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted, My [b]God[/b], my [b]God[/b], why hast thou forsaken me?
This is when Jesus was separated from God which is spiritual death. Jesus does not call His Father "God", only sinners do.

Jesus recieved Spiritual life again when Jesus called out with a loud voice, "[b]Father[/b], into your hands I commit my spirit."(Luk 23:46)

Jesus died physically when He cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. Mat 27:50, Luk 23:46, John 19:30.


 2008/8/28 9:30Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

I don't agree with E.W. Kenyon on this doctrine.
Yes, Christ was separated from God while He was
made to bear our shame and sin and God's wrath
against it. The only reason He went to hell
was to bear witness that He is the Holy Son of
God who was dead and lives forevermore and has
the keys of death and hell!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/8/28 10:35Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

sojourner7 wrote:
I don't agree with E.W. Kenyon on this doctrine.
Yes, Christ was separated from God while He was
made to bear our shame and sin and God's wrath
against it. The only reason He went to hell
was to bear witness that He is the Holy Son of
God who was dead and lives forevermore and has
the keys of death and hell!!


Am I understanding you correctly?
You think that being in hell is spiritual death?

IF Jesus went to hell, it would have been after He gaind His relationship back with the Father as He cryed with a loud voice saying, Father...ect...".

However, being in hell is not the main thing of spiritual death, it is only the outcome.

Spiritual death is mainly a severed relationsip with with God.
Jesus mends that realitionship between us so that we may have spiritual life, which is also eternal life(John 17:3)

 2008/8/28 11:03Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

sojourner7 wrote:
I don't agree with E.W. Kenyon on this doctrine.
[b]Yes, Christ was separated from God[/b] while He was
made to bear our shame and sin and God's wrath
against it. The only reason He went to hell
was to bear witness that He is the Holy Son of
God who was dead and lives forevermore and has
the keys of death and hell!!



To be separated from God.......is spiritual death. Thus Christ did die spiritually, as well as physically-this is the very reason he cries " my God my God why hast THOU FORSAKEN me.." before his physical death.

 2008/8/28 11:28Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

e .w . kenyon went to emersen college and was taught fnostism by ralf waldo trine and waldo emerson and mary baker eddy which started Christian science. kenyons viewpoints. i do not find in Scripture.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2008/8/28 17:00Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

nowhere in the bible have i founr that jesus' death was a spiritual one in isaiah 53 it says he poured out his soulnot spirit in 1 cor 5: 21 in the greek it says how God viewed our sin as Jesus' . the bible says that no man speakibf by the Holy Spirit can call Jesus accursed [ anathema ]in the greek. i want to know what , if any of the old timers on here think of this and some more info to reinforce what i already believe to be true. that is from scripture and studying some of the original usages of greek and hebrew and what i know of the atonement as taught by charles finney. that Jesus did not die spiritually . i do want the truth , that can be unreprovable in any court of reason. so far all i see is a mythical spiritual death that the bible does not say happened.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2008/8/28 17:14Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy