Poster | Thread | Joshh Member
Joined: 2008/8/26 Posts: 62
| Re: | | I agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!
One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is. Again, simply study Jesus, the perfect image of the invisible God. Nowhere does the Bible show that Jesus stopped and prayed to find the will of healing for certain people. He knew that Father wanted them to be healed. Quote:
crsschk wrote:
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But Jesus shows us that it is always God's will to heal.
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I believe that it is God's will to heal everyone just as .... ([i]it is God's will that none should perish but all have everlasting life[/i].)
I know this is a commonly accepted idea, but is it true scripturally? If we just take a look at what it means to say this and measure it against the results, it raises some pretty big issues.
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| 2008/8/26 20:53 | Profile | hmmhmm Member
Joined: 2006/1/31 Posts: 4994 Sweden
| Re: | | At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him [b]all[/b] who were sick and those who were demon-possessed.And [b]the whole city[/b] (KJV says all) was gathered together at the door.Then He healed [b]many[/b] who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him. MAR 1:32-34 NKJV
they brought ALL who was sick, and Jesus healed MANY.
_________________ CHRISTIAN
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| 2008/8/27 0:10 | Profile | Joshh Member
Joined: 2008/8/26 Posts: 62
| Re: | | Mark never comes right out and says if all were healed or not, however, polys, the Greek word used for "many" also means great or most. Even if some weren't healed, it doesn't mean that God wanted some of the people to remain sick, as His will isn't fulfilled in many matters for various reasons. But at other times Jesus heals ALL in a great multitude, ALL who were sick, etc. Quote:
hmmhmm wrote: At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him [b]all[/b] who were sick and those who were demon-possessed.And [b]the whole city[/b] (KJV says all) was gathered together at the door.Then He healed [b]many[/b] who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him. MAR 1:32-34 NKJV
they brought ALL who was sick, and Jesus healed MANY.
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| 2008/8/27 0:47 | Profile | Miccah Member
Joined: 2007/9/13 Posts: 1752 Wisconsin
| Re: | | [u][b]John 2:23-24 (NKJV)[/b][/u]
Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man. _________________ Christiaan
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| 2008/8/27 3:47 | Profile | Tears_of_joy Member
Joined: 2003/10/30 Posts: 1554
| Re: all will be healed? | | Some food for thought:
[url=http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv3/sprtmnv3cont.htm]Watchman Nee: The Spiritual Man - Volume 3 - PART TEN: THE BODY - 2. Sickness[/url] |
| 2008/8/27 4:54 | Profile | crsschk Member
Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 9192 Santa Clara, CA
| Re: | | Quote:
agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!
One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is.
Again, is it indeed God's will always to heal?, not come to the knowledge of the truth, not that all might be saved, this is not in question, this ultimate 'healing' is all that will ever matter long after the tents are destroyed.
Where do we find the context in the scriptures for the 'always' mindset so prevalent in this day?
Taught to doubt is not the issue either, taught not to presume seems to be just as much of the context in James as the prayer of faith and the oil, for just one example.
On the other hand it is absolutely recognized and I know of no better recent example than what I heard Zac Poonen speak about in this regard. He was referring to George Mueller and honestly stated, "I do not have the faith of George Mueller".
That's paraphrased somewhat, will try and dig it up later as I recall much of this being applicable here.
I do not think for the greater part that it is a lack of faith in this present age as much as it is a preponderance of galling presumption ... 'Prophets' and 'healers' alike ... It is redundant but if this was as true as it is made out to be go and empty out the hospitals, at least a wing, they could start in the ER on any given night.
Evidence is very easy to produce when it is presentable and not a tale to be told. _________________ Mike Balog
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| 2008/8/27 9:56 | Profile |
| Re: | | Again... everyone since Jesus has died. Most die from a failure in health. If it was [b]always[/b] God's will to heal those who exercise the faith to be healed... where are the 2,000 yr old people? Produce [b]one[/b] and I'll believe it's [i]always[/i] God's will to heal.
The fact that all people die shows that it is not His will to heal all believers.
This is bordering on WOF.
Krispy |
| 2008/8/27 11:15 | | hmmhmm Member
Joined: 2006/1/31 Posts: 4994 Sweden
| Re: | | Quote:
Joshh wrote: Mark never comes right out and says if all were healed or not, however, polys, the Greek word used for "many" also means great or most. Even if some weren't healed, it doesn't mean that God wanted some of the people to remain sick, as His will isn't fulfilled in many matters for various reasons. But at other times Jesus heals ALL in a great multitude, ALL who were sick, etc
well, maybe you can explain why the Holy Spirit (God) chose another word for all and the other "great" or "most".
the words are not identical in the original. If it meant ALL i presume God would use the same word that describes how many came to HIM.
but he did not, it is two different words _________________ CHRISTIAN
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| 2008/8/27 12:28 | Profile |
| Re: | | No one wants to tackle my question?
Krispy |
| 2008/8/27 13:07 | | Joshh Member
Joined: 2008/8/26 Posts: 62
| Re: | | DOn't look at what you see in the Western Church today, look at what you see Jesus doing in the Bible. Only Jesus perfectly reveals the will of God 100% of the time, and Jesus always healed those coming to him in faith.
And going to the hospital isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think. Jesus, in his hometown, could only do a few healings because of the lack of faith. What makes you think I could go into a hospital full of unbelief and get better results? Quote:
crsschk wrote:
Quote:
agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!
One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is.
Again, is it indeed God's will always to heal?, not come to the knowledge of the truth, not that all might be saved, this is not in question, this ultimate 'healing' is all that will ever matter long after the tents are destroyed.
Where do we find the context in the scriptures for the 'always' mindset so prevalent in this day?
Taught to doubt is not the issue either, taught not to presume seems to be just as much of the context in James as the prayer of faith and the oil, for just one example.
On the other hand it is absolutely recognized and I know of no better recent example than what I heard Zac Poonen speak about in this regard. He was referring to George Mueller and honestly stated, "I do not have the faith of George Mueller".
That's paraphrased somewhat, will try and dig it up later as I recall much of this being applicable here.
I do not think for the greater part that it is a lack of faith in this present age as much as it is a preponderance of galling presumption ... 'Prophets' and 'healers' alike ... It is redundant but if this was as true as it is made out to be go and empty out the hospitals, at least a wing, they could start in the ER on any given night.
Evidence is very easy to produce when it is presentable and not a tale to be told.
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| 2008/8/27 13:51 | Profile |
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