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Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

I agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!

One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is. Again, simply study Jesus, the perfect image of the invisible God. Nowhere does the Bible show that Jesus stopped and prayed to find the will of healing for certain people. He knew that Father wanted them to be healed.

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
But Jesus shows us that it is always God's will to heal.




Quote:
I believe that it is God's will to heal everyone just as .... ([i]it is God's will that none should perish but all have everlasting life[/i].)



I know this is a commonly accepted idea, but is it true scripturally? If we just take a look at what it means to say this and measure it against the results, it raises some pretty big issues.


 2008/8/26 20:53Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him [b]all[/b] who were sick and those who were demon-possessed.And [b]the whole city[/b] (KJV says all) was gathered together at the door.Then He healed [b]many[/b] who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him. MAR 1:32-34 NKJV

they brought ALL who was sick, and Jesus healed MANY.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/8/27 0:10Profile
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

Mark never comes right out and says if all were healed or not, however, polys, the Greek word used for "many" also means great or most. Even if some weren't healed, it doesn't mean that God wanted some of the people to remain sick, as His will isn't fulfilled in many matters for various reasons. But at other times Jesus heals ALL in a great multitude, ALL who were sick, etc.

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him [b]all[/b] who were sick and those who were demon-possessed.And [b]the whole city[/b] (KJV says all) was gathered together at the door.Then He healed [b]many[/b] who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him. MAR 1:32-34 NKJV

they brought ALL who was sick, and Jesus healed MANY.


 2008/8/27 0:47Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

[u][b]John 2:23-24 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/8/27 3:47Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: all will be healed?

Some food for thought:

[url=http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv3/sprtmnv3cont.htm]Watchman Nee: The Spiritual Man - Volume 3 - PART TEN: THE BODY - 2. Sickness[/url]

 2008/8/27 4:54Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!

One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is.



Again, is it indeed God's will always to heal?, not come to the knowledge of the truth, not that all might be saved, this is not in question, this ultimate 'healing' is all that will ever matter long after the tents are destroyed.

Where do we find the context in the scriptures for the 'always' mindset so prevalent in this day?

Taught to doubt is not the issue either, taught not to presume seems to be just as much of the context in James as the prayer of faith and the oil, for just one example.

On the other hand it is absolutely recognized and I know of no better recent example than what I heard Zac Poonen speak about in this regard. He was referring to George Mueller and honestly stated, "I do not have the faith of George Mueller".

That's paraphrased somewhat, will try and dig it up later as I recall much of this being applicable here.

I do not think for the greater part that it is a lack of faith in this present age as much as it is a preponderance of galling presumption ... 'Prophets' and 'healers' alike ... It is redundant but if this was as true as it is made out to be go and empty out the hospitals, at least a wing, they could start in the ER on any given night.

Evidence is very easy to produce when it is presentable and not a tale to be told.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/8/27 9:56Profile









 Re:

Again... everyone since Jesus has died. Most die from a failure in health. If it was [b]always[/b] God's will to heal those who exercise the faith to be healed... where are the 2,000 yr old people? Produce [b]one[/b] and I'll believe it's [i]always[/i] God's will to heal.

The fact that all people die shows that it is not His will to heal all believers.

This is bordering on WOF.

Krispy

 2008/8/27 11:15
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

Joshh wrote:
Mark never comes right out and says if all were healed or not, however, polys, the Greek word used for "many" also means great or most. Even if some weren't healed, it doesn't mean that God wanted some of the people to remain sick, as His will isn't fulfilled in many matters for various reasons. But at other times Jesus heals ALL in a great multitude, ALL who were sick, etc



well, maybe you can explain why the Holy Spirit (God) chose another word for all and the other "great" or "most".

the words are not identical in the original. If it meant ALL i presume God would use the same word that describes how many came to HIM.

but he did not, it is two different words


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/8/27 12:28Profile









 Re:

No one wants to tackle my question?

Krispy

 2008/8/27 13:07
Joshh
Member



Joined: 2008/8/26
Posts: 62


 Re:

DOn't look at what you see in the Western Church today, look at what you see Jesus doing in the Bible. Only Jesus perfectly reveals the will of God 100% of the time, and Jesus always healed those coming to him in faith.

And going to the hospital isn't as cut and dry as you seem to think. Jesus, in his hometown, could only do a few healings because of the lack of faith. What makes you think I could go into a hospital full of unbelief and get better results?

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
agree that the results in Western Churches are quite poor. However, our experience doesn't trump the revelation of God and God's will in the Bible!

One of the main problems that we have is that we have been taught to doubt that we will be healed, and that causes our experience to be what it is.



Again, is it indeed God's will always to heal?, not come to the knowledge of the truth, not that all might be saved, this is not in question, this ultimate 'healing' is all that will ever matter long after the tents are destroyed.

Where do we find the context in the scriptures for the 'always' mindset so prevalent in this day?

Taught to doubt is not the issue either, taught not to presume seems to be just as much of the context in James as the prayer of faith and the oil, for just one example.

On the other hand it is absolutely recognized and I know of no better recent example than what I heard Zac Poonen speak about in this regard. He was referring to George Mueller and honestly stated, "I do not have the faith of George Mueller".

That's paraphrased somewhat, will try and dig it up later as I recall much of this being applicable here.

I do not think for the greater part that it is a lack of faith in this present age as much as it is a preponderance of galling presumption ... 'Prophets' and 'healers' alike ... It is redundant but if this was as true as it is made out to be go and empty out the hospitals, at least a wing, they could start in the ER on any given night.

Evidence is very easy to produce when it is presentable and not a tale to be told.

 2008/8/27 13:51Profile





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