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hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

theopenlife wrote:
I agree with you, hmmhmm. I simply emphasize that the way we know is by faith, because there a certainly times when we feel like we don't know but that doesn't change that we are.



yes, feelings can be deceptive sometimes, blessed as they can be,but even more, blessed be God who said " live by faith" , but so often, we live by feelings, i personally have come to the conclusion we need come to the place where feelings dont matter anymore, how i feel should not have an effect upon how i live my life, not speaking as one who come to the goal all the way on that, but i have discovered if we live by feelings we will have a miserable christian life.

we need to live a life of constant faith and expectancy upon HIM and what he will do.

If we have faith, we will not be discouraged no matter what comes in our way.

the problem i think is not maybe always assurance, but that people may have a misunderstanding of what faith is, saving faith that is. Many have mixed it up with knowledge or facts about God, salvation, and Jesus.


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/8/9 5:41Profile
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
Quote:

theopenlife wrote:
I agree with you, hmmhmm. I simply emphasize that the way we know is by faith, because there a certainly times when we feel like we don't know but that doesn't change that we are.



yes, feelings can be deceptive sometimes, blessed as they can be,but even more, blessed be God who said " live by faith" , but so often, we live by feelings, i personally have come to the conclusion we need come to the place where feelings dont matter anymore, how i feel should not have an effect upon how i live my life, not speaking as one who come to the goal all the way on that, but i have discovered if we live by feelings we will have a miserable christian life.

we need to live a life of constant faith and expectancy upon HIM and what he will do.

If we have faith, we will not be discouraged no matter what comes in our way.

the problem i think is not maybe always assurance, but that people may have a misunderstanding of what faith is, saving faith that is. Many have mixed it up with knowledge or facts about God, salvation, and Jesus.




Thoughtful points. However, I think there is 1 more element which is the spirit witnessing to us. I tend to believe that if our walk with God is close, the Holy Spirit will witness to us continously. Sure, there may be times that we feel we don't know, but it will not last (very) long and when we look back, we will see that God has actually prepared us for these times if only we were to be more vigilent.
The closer our walk is with God, the more willing we are to lay down our intellectual thoughts and let God be in control (dead to self and alive in Christ), hence the greater is the infilling of the holy spirit in us, which indirectly leads to a stronger faith in our assurance and continual assurance of salvation.

Its like in John Bunyan's Pilgrim Progress where Jesus is pouring the oil (which I will take it to be the Holy Spirit) into the fire while the devil is trying to quench the fire with water. Thus, the more infilling of the Holy Spirit we have, the better equipped we are to fight the temptations and trials of this world.


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geraldine

 2008/8/9 6:51Profile
rowdy2
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Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: God's Elect

Reply to the question on how we can know if we are one of the Elect. I find my answer in;

1 Thessalonians 1
1. Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2. We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
[color=009900]
4. Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God[/color][color=009900]
5. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.[/color][color=009900]
6. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:[/color] in Macedonia and Achaia.
[color=009900] 7. So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.[/color] [color=009900]
8. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.[/color][color=009900]
9. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;[/color][color=009900]
10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.[/color]

Eddie


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Eddie

 2008/8/9 8:19Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Reply to all:

Please check out the link I posted in my first reply. It is a 9 min video that may answer a lot of questions people have about this topic.


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TJ

 2008/8/9 9:45Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Thanks TJ for that 9 minute video and I agree with you more than you realize.

Romans 9:14-16 (KJV) 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Before they were born, God chose Jacob over Esau. We are to realize what God is saying here that it is not of works or anything of ourselves but it is all because of the mercy of God.

Let’s bring this to the New Testament where God has shown mercy through His Son Jesus Christ. God elects us before we are born (that is born of God) according to his compassion and mercy. God speaks through His Word to convict the sinners’ heart before they are born (that is born of God) because He has elected all in Christ Jesus by His mercy. God will only show mercy to the one who is fully trusting in His Son and there will be the fruit of repenting of sins and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Those who do not accept His Son for their forgiveness and salvation then He rejects them before they are born (that is born of God).

We must realized that in the OT the seed of Christ was being carried through certain one’s that God chose until Jesus was actually born. In the NT the seed of Christ is received by grace through faith in those after Jesus’ passion and ascension. People could not be truly regenerated of the Spirit until Jesus Christ had finished the work His Father had assigned for Him to make redemption possible.

God must show mercy before a person is born again because He is the only one who can bring about the new birth of the Spirit. The only true foundation on our part that He has conditioned us with is faith. The condition on our part is faith. Search the scriptures and you will find that without faith it is impossible to please God. Our own efforts and works do not please him. But when we totally trust Him by faith for God to do it all in us and through us, this pleases Him.

Psalms 9:10 (KJV) And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Blessings to all!

 2008/8/9 11:42Profile
boG
Member



Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV

 Re: faith that acts

I think I shall allow Scripture to speak for itself in this weighty matter, with just a few emphasizing remarks.


[b]2 Peter 3[/b]
[b]9[/b]. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[b]Romans 2[/b]
[b]4[/b]. Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
[b]5[/b]. But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
[b]6[/b]. who will render to each person according to his deeds:
[b]7[/b]. to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
[b]8[/b]. [b][size=xx-small]but to those who are selfishly ambitious[/size] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.[/b]


I would like to add, that the Laodicean church was a vomitous lukewarm-thing not because of wealth or "mammon" but rather for that same ungodly selfishness!


[b]Acts of the Apostles 17[/b]
[b]30[/b]. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
[b]31[/b]. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Jesus of Nazareth) whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

[b]John 3[/b]
[b]14[/b]. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[b]15[/b]. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[b]16[/b]. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[b]17[/b]. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[b]Mark 1[/b]
[b]15[/b]. and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

[b]Acts of the Apostles 2[/b]
[b]38[/b]. Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[b]Acts of the Apostles 3[/b]
[b]19[/b]. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

[b]Acts of the Apostles 26[/b]
[b]20[/b]. but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

[b]John 6[/b]
[b]37[/b]. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

As it is written, [b]Luke 19[/b]
[b]10[/b]. "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."

Are you lost? Jesus is come to save you.


[b]2 Peter 1[/b]
[b]1[/b]. Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[b]2[/b]. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[b]3[/b]. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[b]4[/b]. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


[b]THEREFORE, BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING JUST SAID![/b]


[b]5[/b]. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[b]6[/b]. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[b]7[/b]. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


[b]8[/b]. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you [b][u]that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ[/b][/u].

As Jesus declared, [b]John 17[/b]
[b][size=xx-small]3[/b]. [b]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.[/b][/size]

Again, for emphasis!
[b]8[/b]. [b]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [/b]


[b]9[/b]. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[b]10[/b]. Wherefore the rather, brethren, [b]give diligence to make your calling and election sure[/b]: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[u][b][size=xx-small]11. For so (in this Way!) an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [/size][/u][/b]



Amazing Grace! Narrow and straight is the Way that leads to eternal life, yet here in This Way we know that Christ Jesus Himself (Who is the Way) shall ABUNDANTLY minister unto us eternal life in Him!

Truly His commandments are not burdensome! Put thy faith to work, as Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. ([b]John 6:28[/b])"



As John reproves us, [b]1 John 2[/b]
[b]4[/b]. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And again, John says, [b]1 John 4[/b]
[b]20[/b]. If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

[b]Galatians 6[/b]
[b]2[/b]. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

[b]John 15[/b]
[b]10[/b]. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[b]1 John 4[/b]
[b]16[/b]. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

[b]Mark 12[/b]
[b]29[/b]. And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[b]30[/b]. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[b]31[/b]. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
[b]32[/b]. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[b]33[/b]. And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, [b][size=xx-small]is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices[/b][/size].


As the Prophet Samuel testified, [b]1 Samuel 15[/b]
[b]22[/b]. And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.


[b]34[/b]. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.


And neither is Jesus far from any one who would call upon His name!


[b]Acts of the Apostles 17[/b]
[b]24[/b]. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
[...]
[b]26[/b]. And hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
[b]27[/b]. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
[b]28[/b]. For in him we live, and move, and have our being.

[b]Ezekiel 33[/b]
[b]11[/b]. As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?

[b]Ezekiel 18[/b]
[b]21[/b]. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[...]
[b]32[/b]. For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

[b]Matthew 25[/b]
[b]31[/b]. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[b]32[/b]. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[b]33[/b]. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[b]34[/b]. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[b]35[/b]. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[b]36[/b]. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[b]37[/b]. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[b]38[/b]. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[b]39[/b]. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[b]40[/b]. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[b]41[/b]. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[...]
[b]45[/b]. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[b]46[/b]. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Ever heard it said, "Psalms 37:4, Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart"? Well, here is HOW to delight yourselves in the Lord:

[b]Isaiah 58[/b]
[b]13[/b]. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath,

from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him,

not doing thine own ways,
nor finding thine own pleasure,
nor speaking thine own words:

[b]14[/b]. [b][size=xx-small]Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD[/b][/size]; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

[b]Isaiah 58[/b] (and the rest of Isaiah 58, because it is all too good to pass by!)
[b]1[/b]. Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
[b]2[/b]. Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
[b]3[/b]. Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
[b]4[/b]. Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
[b]5[/b]. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
[b]6[/b]. Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
[b]7[/b]. Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
[b]8[/b]. Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
[b]9[/b]. Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
[b]10[/b]. And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
[b]11[/b]. And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
[b]12[/b]. And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.


[b]Romans 1[/b]
[b]16[/b]. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[b]17[/b]. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


To put it plainly:

Bad fruit = Bad tree :oops:
Good fruit = Good tree :-D

[b]Luke 6[/b]
[b]43[/b]. "For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.

[b]Matthew 7[/b]
[b]17[/b]. "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
[b]18[/b]. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[b]19[/b]. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[b]20[/b]. "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
[b]21[/b]. "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, [b][size=x-small]but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven [u]will enter[/u].[/b][/size]

[b]Ephesians 2[/b]
[b]4[/b]. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[b]5[/b]. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
[b]6[/b]. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[b]7[/b]. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[b]8[/b]. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[b]9[/b]. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[b]10[/b]. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(These, the "created in Christ Jesus unto good works", are the fruits that reveal whether the tree is a good or a bad tree.)




Indeed this is not an exhaustive run of Scripture, but a fine sample. Amen!

And, by-the-way, I must say, the transition from Isaiah 58 to 59 to 60 to 61 (where Jesus quotes, "the Spirit of the Lord is upon me ..."), Ah! Beautiful! Amazing Love!


_________________
Jordan

 2008/8/9 20:24Profile
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 319


 Re:

Here's a Q&A with RC Sproul which briefly addresses this very issue

[url=http://www.ligonier.org/media_player.php?tabID=2&id=2335]RC Sproul Q&A[/url]

Should be available for about a month.




_________________
David

 2008/8/10 7:45Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

General reply to thread...


Perhaps the question that needs to be answered is [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24803&forum=36]Are You Born Again?[/url]. I just posted an article by that name written by J.C. Ryle. Election is in the Bible, but like brother rbanks has noted, its over emphasis has at times done damage and caused confusion. So, perhaps there is some legitimacy in confronting the question of, “Am I elect?” with the question of, [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24803&forum=36]"Are You Born Again?"[/url]

Grace and peace


_________________
TJ

 2008/8/10 10:12Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 607


 Re: Woman terrified that she is not one of God’s elect.

I think the bible does not tell us to find out if we are one of the elect or not, rather it tells us to repent, be baptizrd, be holy, to love one another, to trust God, to persevere to the end...:-o

A word of encouragement:

Matt 11: 28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 2008/8/13 22:17Profile





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