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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Where can I go to learn about grace?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Is this what you were saying?

Quote:

"""grace can only be received but not kept"

Meaning, God is the only one the dispenses The Grace of God. We can do nothing to keep Grace, as others try to keep salvation, by works.

You cannot obtain Grace or Salvation by works, it is the gift of God.

Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/9/7 4:53Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re:

I do not mean to highjack this post to digress into this topic, but I think we hit and important point.

The grace I am talking about is the continous grace which can increase to the degree we are willing to abandon ourself to God, to serve and walk in humility or decrease to the level we neglect the same. There are people who are able to explain in perfect terms salvation by grace but they "keep" or incapsulate it since some time in the past when they made a decision for Christ.

There is the factual and foundational grace as pointed out in the middle chapters of Romans and the verses you mentioned but grace must be also practical, living and active. This grace is discribed in Romans 12. Here Christ's grace manifests itself in gifts and and ministries that build the body of Christ and brings blessing and freedom to others around you from their sin and error otherwise it is ineffective.

Yes, the foundational grace that we once have grasped will evaporate if it does not work itself out in a new and living way.

Grace is given to us for purposes far beyond our own salvation.

God's grace is God's investment in you and it must be fruitful and multiply in you and others. Grace cannot be kept but can be cultivated. Remember the manager who buried his one talent and return the same back to God? His talent was taken away.

The unmerciful servant in Mat 18 had received genuine grace from God but did not extend it to others. He ended up to be tortured.

narrowpath

 2008/9/7 11:06Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
The grace I am talking about is the continous grace which can increase to the degree we are willing to abandon ourself to God,



Do you know that this is also the Roman Catholic view of grace as well?

God's grace is many things, but is primarily the gift of regeneration to believe in the actual events that produce our salvation-

Christ's death for sinners
Christ's burial
Christ's resurrection four our justification

This all stems from God's grace, and does not change one iota if we surrender to it or not. It cannot change as these are historical facts.

I think this is what you were getting at in the second paragraph of your reply?

Quote:
Yes, the foundational grace that we once have grasped will evaporate if it does not work itself out in a new and living way.



No, again this is a Roman Catholic, semi-Pelagian view and is in contrast to many Scriptures. The following being one of them-

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that [b]he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion[/b] at the day of Jesus Christ.

Grace comes to us, as does the Gospel. Grace works in us almost in a hidden way, renewing our desires etc. so that what we once desired, we now despise. This is an ongoing process and not a one time event.

Grace begins the new life and grace completes it.

And what is God's grace but Christ Himself given for us and now living in the hearts of those whom He has regenerated by the Spirit and Word.

Quote:
God's grace is God's investment in you and it must be fruitful and multiply in you and others. Grace cannot be kept but can be cultivated. Remember the manager who buried his one talent and return the same back to God? His talent was taken away. The unmerciful servant in Mat 18 had received genuine grace from God but did not extend it to others. He ended up to be tortured.



God's grace will make itself fruitful. A person who is truly justified will indeed go through sanctification, and ultimately be perfected in glorification.

I agree with you that "it must be", but "it must be" because of God's power, and not our efforts. If our efforts are what determine the grace of God and how it is or is not working, then why the Cross? For it would be easier to give us a spark, or helping hand so that we could keep the Law.

Though you are not outright saying this, you in a sense are making the Cross of little or no value. For if Christ's death and faith in that death are not enough to save a person, to propitiate God's wrath, and ultimately be the grounds for glory, then we MUST add something to it to make it work.

And those parables you allude to must be taken in the light of what was to come a few chapters later, namely the crucifiction of Christ.

Were not the stewards and keepers the Jewish religious people who had the revelation of God, but buried it for their own Laws?

Don't forget that the Gospels must be read in light of the rest of the New Testament, and almost read backwards(from the Cross back) or else, you begin to make a moral lesson out of Christianity.


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patrick heaviside

 2008/9/7 17:30Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Roaringlamb
I do not diminish the cross, you are twisting my words around. I am arrested by the wonderful events that took place on the cross and it makes requirements to me and grace enables me to fulfil them. I am saved for a purpose not as an end in itself. Grace is not an automatism. I work out my salvation with fear and trembling. What is wrong with works of faith? Why are we so afraid of works? Obedience to the Holy Spirit will cause me to do the works Christ has foreordained.

How come that are so vast differences in Christians that some are full of grace and and abounding life others are stale, boring and have no fire of the Spirit? We may have had the same experience of salvation.

For centuries Christians have overemphasized on personal salvation by grace. This love and grace has to be spread by us so that salvation can come to more people until the fullness of the Gentiles are in. We can hasten the Lord's return.
Paul always addressed an assembly of saints and Jude 3 expresses the salvation we share. The Lord will for sure accomplish his work here on earth and I want to be part of it.
For this reason we go into the streets and preach the gospel. I make myself a fool for Christ. Salvation grace grants me a place to run the race. Still I must run - though in his power.

By the way, would you mind to pray for me? I am off to Cairo tomorrow on business and I hope I will find some opportunities to witness.

narrowpath

 2008/9/7 18:36Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
By the way, would you mind to pray for me? I am off to Cairo tomorrow on business and I hope I will find some opportunities to witness.



The most important part of your whole entry, and of course I will pray for you and your hearers.


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patrick heaviside

 2008/9/7 21:09Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re:

thanks roaringlamb

narrowpath

 2008/9/8 1:33Profile





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