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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : So Which is it, Was Adam purposed to Fall or was he purposed for the incarnation of Christ Jesus?

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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Are you with all those who say God purposed Adam to fail just to redeem fallen man? Perhaps you might explain why God would do such a thing; to allow so much misery for 4K years? For His pleasure, no doubt?


Again, this is the bait. The issue is not with you getting an answser to this question; the real issue, rather is the teaching you are propagating here about Adam's original design of being included in the Trinity, of Adam attaining Christ-like divinity through mere obedience, of God's blood not being shed on the cross, and that being born-again doesn't necessarily mean you are saved (as you taught in another thread). And under all this error lurks the all-encompassing haughty attitude of "prove me wrong" by debate. Nothing has changed.

I have no urge to get into a scripture volley with you, as some here are doing, because I know from experience this is exactly what you want and how you survive in the forum. Like Josef Urban, I would only warn others of what I perceive as dangerous teaching coming from your posts.

Those who have hears to hear, hearken.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/8/6 8:54Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Strife

Quote:
Get understanding.

Whose next . . .



See that pride still has the better of you Ormly. Your bent has gotten weary. Your penchant for division and dictating ...

[i]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes[/i]. 2Ti 2:23

[i]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.[/i] Tit 3:9

Have lost track, but if I am not mistaken you have accused three here with the question of "Are you born again?" You started yet another post that can only be measured as stirring up strife, whether or not that was your intention -it is not unusual.

You were removed from participation here a year ago under similar circumstances and were asked not to re-register. Your behavior here is again quite intolerable. You were given some latitude and abused it.

Now, you have started this fire and others have jumped in with accusing that is not any better than yours, it is an unnecessary contending and strife.

One question. Did you ask to be reinstated?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/8/6 8:55Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Quote:
Was Adam purposed to Fall or was he purposed for the incarnation of Christ Jesus?



This would almost be similar to one asking were we(before salvation) purposed to sin or were we (after salvation)purposed for the new life in Christ?

I see this as one of, if not, the entire paraodixical "scheme" of directions/actions of God's mysterious Ways. Paradoxes are forever difficult for human understanding. I have since stopped trying to 'figure out' rather to believe all of all as written/presented in the Bible.

However, I still firmly believe that, on my part as a Christian, that I am 100% responsible and held accountable to all my sins and actions. I also bow to GOD's total sovereignty in all of His determinations in bringing forth of His love and judgment.

Orm, it will take many many many examples of such to bring to this discussion..perhaps the entire Holy Scripture.

One came to mind is this( hope my memory serves me right). Did Hezekiah's prayer "really" made God lengthen his life or Did God's own will decide to add on to his years? Another one came to mind, did God purpose Pharoah to harden his heart time after time or did God purpose Israel to be delivered through much sufferings?Even many experiences and events in our own lives ... GOD or US?

One event in my own life also came to mind, I once (not just once of course) sinned in the past (and will), and that same sin was used to turn into a witness in leading a co-worker to Christ, so I often asked, did God purpose me to sin (of course not) or did God purpose this co-worker to come to salvation with this sin (apparently so).
I can answer it this way too, did God purpose me to sin (yes, since I was a believer, sins are forgiven, though consequences remain), did God purpose this coworker to become saved by my sin (no, the consequences of sin are death and corruption).

Confusing? Not really. All is well (but sin),Providence is not to be questioned.

To answer your question, I'd say yes and no to both questions, only GOD can fully answer that perfectly, or, "logically" to our human cognitive liking. Even at the end of this thread, if you or anyone came up with any answers, for sure, they will be debated to no end all over again...?

To answer your next question to come, perahps, am I born again? YES, praise GOD, I'm born again, 100% by His grace!! Perhaps through Adam's purposeful fall and the purposeful incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ...the saving Blood, etc.etc.

mamaluk

 2008/8/6 9:25Profile









 Re:

[b]It ain't pride as you suppose, Bro., just some vented frustrationat with those who accuse without good investigation of what is being presented. Notice, no one has commented on the Oswald Chambers references, choosing rather to keep on accusing me of heresy. Is He also a heretic? I see that more as a pride issue than anything, not wishing to be wrong or perhaps disturbed from their status quote religion... at any cost. "Who's next" is only meant for them. Even you, had you read my reply to rbanks would find no pride from me in that, i.e., unless you wish to find some. But then that is easy regardless of who writes anything. After all, who wants to be told they are wrong.

I have run out ideas in how to present my perspective to those will not be persuaded regardless of one's 'humble' dispostion. All you have to do is re-view my posts from the beginning and watch the responses go sour when I hit upon something unfamiliar to them that shakes their world; contradicts their biased commentaries.. It takes time to think and then to write and even more to grasp what is being written. That sortta sez it all about those with the 'oh so fast', replies.
Remember I wrote once, "Read the Bible and write your own commentary". I believe you agreed with me then. Well, that's what I still do.
No one has the right to call anyone a heretic without careful examination of what is written by that person. No guess or 'seems like you saying' in the attempt to get one to say more about what he ISN"T saying. They all try hard to do that. Sortta Satanic in my estimation.

Anyhow, words mean something. I sometimes like the challenge to write it out because it keeps me on my toes to be certain, at least to my mind what I believe to be the more complete gospel.

To be a heretic one must violate the word of God. Where is my violation? . . . and where is the pride that after the accusations I would respond: Whose next?

Quote:
Have lost track, but if I am not mistaken you have accused three here with the question of "Are you born again?"



Accused!!! I asked and then expalined why to rbanks. As with the others you have either not read or simply wish to accuse without sustance fro the accusation.

What I have posted is NOT silly genealogy talk but rather serious stuff the enemy doesn't want out for the Christian to understand. Read Chambers' "Bringing son's into glory". He also speaks of it in stronger terms than me.

Is it devisive? You bet it is. I can't apologise for that. That's God's business.[/b]

 2008/8/6 9:30
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Ormly,

Answer the question, did you ask to be reinstated or not?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/8/6 9:35Profile









 Re:

[b]Nope! Apparently you all just missed me.

I did note there wasn't much activity goin on til I arrived. Seems all the arguing over who struck John was finished and there was nothing more for folks to argue over. . Maybe you should thank me for pumping flesh blood and something meanful, into it. [/b]

 2008/8/6 9:45









 Re:


Beter PM Mamaluk. I might not be here long enough to reply to your inquiry. I am sorry should that be the case.

 2008/8/6 9:46
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Or you just took advantage of our longsuffering and patience. Truly sad that this is your only response.

[i]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.[/i] Joh 10:1

Goodbye Ormly, may the Lord grant you repentance.

Thread locked.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/8/6 9:49Profile





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