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FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

I have to say a "hearty" AMEN to Krispy's post. I would definitely say don't give your teenage nephew hell's bells to watch as it's "outdatedness" provides much humor with which he could distract himself.

As Krispy said, the music is not the primary issue. Although addressing it could certainly be the vehicle through which you present the gosple to him. However, the worst thing one could do is simply attack an individuals music without addressing the real issue which is their alienation from God. Music is a very sacred thing to many, especially a young person. To make that your target will probably, as Krispy said, cause you to lose credibility.

Pray, Pray, Pray! I am a full time youth pastor, and I have seen it time and again. Young people sit through sermon after sermon, and nothing clicks. They continue following the secular culture - music, movies etc... Yet one touch from the Holy Spirit and they're bringing me their music to burn or throw away. It wasn't forced by myself, but supernaturally done through the work of the Holy Spirit.

just my thoughts...

Jeff


_________________
Jeff

 2008/8/5 11:48Profile
growingholly
Member



Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


 Re:

i once heard a sermon given through ravenhill, and he may have been quoting someone else, but i remember him saying, "entertainment is the devil's substitute for joy, and sport is her sister."

i hope to give you some experiential practical advice here...my heart goes out to you and your family; i discipled a couple of different hurting teenagers (also victims of hard family/adoption circumstances and both were very much into music) and it is one of the hardest things one can do. be encouraged that God has selected you for this monumental task. through this, you will learn even more to trust in Him and only Him for any and all strength. you will be pushed way past your limits. you will be tested as gold is tested in the fire. praise God for His matchless wonderful grace! i believe He will draw you to Himself through this, and hopefully He will draw your whole family closer to Himself!!

the following is all given to you with love for the saints.

first and foremost, the boy needs Christ, and only if and when Christ regenerates his heart will he learn to hate the sin he once loved (check out ezekiel 36). in hopeful anticipation that God will work a miracle and save the child unto His glory, i offer the following...

i propose that as a family (all of us on these boards), we join together in prayer over your nephew, that God would have mercy on his soul. also, i would ask that we all pray for your spouse as well as you, that you two would be unified, able to communicate, able to pray together, devoted to the Lord and to prayer with an attitude of thanksgiving. the devil has been waging war over this boy and now he will wage war over your whole family. be warned that he will do anything he can to destroy your household. i would encourage you and your spouse to listen to the sermons given through denny kenaston and paul washer on raising children. it is no small task to inherit a teenager that has been rejected by parents (i know one died, but that is very likely how he feels). basically, he has been told a lie by the devil that he was less important than alcohol. but you can bring him truth and consistency, and you can walk out in front of him the desire to leave this world and all its meaningless pursuits behind.

i would like to address something about the metal-the metal issue is merely a symptom of a huge illness: we are God-hating by nature. God-hating. we would, in the flesh, rather have tv or music or movies or video games than God. just this morning, a friend told me that there is a missionary staying in our town that was bored because there wasn't a tv at the missionary house, so they went and watched spiderman 3. i wanted to just sit down and cry. i hear a lot of talk about metal or rap in particular, or occasionally grand theft auto, but we need to see that all entertainment is of the devil. i know professing Christians that know more about the characters on csi than they do about the real people mentioned in the Word of God. i submit that there is no godly form of entertainment. it's not just metal, rap, grand theft auto...it's all of it. country music is just as worldly and evil as metal. hannah montana is just as worldly and evil as the sopranos. watching tv, movies, magazines, etc....all these things take us away from worshiping a holy God. they all draw us to pursue our own interests and be exalted. they lure us in order to become our "little gods". and we have to watch ourselves with worship songs, as even some worship songs are scarily man-centered and anti-Scriptural. we must be discerning.

it might be a really beautiful thing for the two of you to purge your lives together as a team, or do it all as a family. for example, if you have a tv in your house, throw it out (or sell it and give the money to the poor)when he is deleting his ipod; you guys can bond by doing this together. plus, like any child that has been through a tough scenario, he most likely is looking to you to truly practice what you preach, and you must obey God in all things and do it to the extreme that Jesus demands of us. if he finds one tiny hole in your armor, he will tear you to shreds (if he's like most kids who have had adoption/family trauma issues). i agree wholeheartedly that it is a very wise choice to be educated on the stuff going on, but also you have to be willing to give up all your stuff too. i just really believe that a few types of entertainment don't encompass the whole entertainment issue. one type of practical suggestion: if you do have entertainment in your home, and you guys get rid of it, another cool thing might be to have him help you sell it on ebay or something; most kids are very net-savvy and it would give him ownership of the solution and a chance to be a help to you. you remember your teenage years...it was sooooo cool if your uncle or dad asked you to help with something. maybe you guys can team up and sell the stuff on ebay and take the money to buy food for the homeless and go take it to them or to a shelter. give the money to the poor and have him help. this hits a number of bases all at once: solution ownership, experiencing your radical obedience to Christ, seeing the poor and realizing his fortunate circumstances and helping someone other than himself. we all have stuff we need to die to. if you already got rid of the tv, find something else. letting him being a part of it along with you also lets him know that you are here to fight for him and alongside him.

your road will be hard, friend, but what a sacrifice for Christ, and if this child comes to know God through God's call on your life, then what a worthy and beautiful thing that will be! either way though, God will be glorified. this child is a victim, yes, without a doubt. but he is also accountable to a holy God, and God says that we are all without excuse. love him, be compassionate, but do not budge when you know Scripturally that somtething is against God's will and does not glorify Him.

i do sincerely hope that none of this was hurtful to you, but rather, i pray it will help you. it's gonna be a long, difficult road, but please remember that God has granted you this to grow you and to possibly save some people, but be encouraged, friend, that the main goal is to glorify the Lord!!! what a gracious God He is!!!

with sincere love and gratitude for your heart to seek godly counsel, hoping i have not said anything hurtful. praise be to the Lord God.
holly

 2008/8/5 12:28Profile









 Re:

I agree with most of what Holly said... very good post. I would like to point out two things that were said in that post that I dont necessarily agree with. Not as a point of contention, but just to make my own opinion known.

Holly said:

Quote:
but we need to see that all entertainment is of the devil



I think that is a bit extreme. Like anything else in life, being entertained is not evil in and of itself. Take for instance The Andy Griffith Show... family and godly values were promoted, the characters all went to church and had respect for the law. It's an excellent tool for teaching your children life lessons. (someone is bound to point out that Otis the drunk was one of the characters, but he was portrayed as being pitiful. He wasnt portrayed as someone you should try to emulate... unlike Cheech & Chong a decade later were)

The problem comes in when people lose all sense of moderation. If TV is used to bring smut into your home (which is generally is today), or your spend more time watching Andy Griffith than you do reading your Bible... [b]then[/b] it becomes a sin.

But there is no prohibition against entertainment in the Bible. In fact, the OT is full of celebrations that God [b]commanded[/b] Israel to observe... and most of them were not celebrated in a somber way. A celebration is what? Entertainment. Even Jesus and His deciples went to at least one wedding. Probably a lot of them. I dont think they just sat there silently with scowls on their faces trying to keep their halos perfectly balanced on their heads.

It's when we get out of balance that it becomes a sin. Just like eating. We need to eat, but when we become gluttonous... thats a sin. Go to a church dinner sometime and observe mass sin... usually led by the pastor.

The other thing I wanted to suggest... if you decide to dispose of your TV, CD players, whatever... [b]dont[/b] sell them to someone else. Why, if you're convinced it's sin or it causes you to stumble, would you sell it to someone else? You wouldnt recommend a drug addict sell his cocaine to someone in order to get it out of his house, right?

No, if you are convinced God wants you to get rid of something that is causing sin in your life, then just throw it in the landfill.

Krispy

 2008/8/5 13:59
growingholly
Member



Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


 Re:

yay, thanks krispy!!

i do need the body to keep me in check, very much so! (glad to hear at least the andy griffith show had some decent values. ;))

i did have a question, though: in regard to your writing about the celebrations, weren't the feasts/celebrations in the Bible to celebrate God? i don't know about all of them, but i recall them being celebrations about God or celebrations to encourage the brethren. i remember that many of them were set up as a memorial to remember something God did for them. when i wrote that about entertainment, i meant that i see entertainment as a secular thing; i suppose i should have clarified that, sorry. :) it is my belief that there is a societal idea that there is "the stuff we do for God" and then there is "the other stuff". it is my belief that this mentality opposes the commands to 1) do all things to the glory of God and 2) to walk in the Spirit (walking as a style of life, connected to Him at all times). that's what i was referring to. didn't make it into the post for some reason...hee heeeeeee, silly holly-brain. it kinda works most days.

sorry about that!! thank you so much for challenging me on that, seriously. that is one thing i was really excited about in regard to this forum, hoping that if i am wrong in something i will be corrected. wow, i am so stoked about you guys. way sorry for not being clear enough with what i meant. yay for krispy, i am grateful God has placed discernment in you. good catch, thanks again. :)

oh, whoops, and yes, i do think you're right about the not selling the stuff thing, but i go back and forth on it in my weakness. i was originally of the idea that we should throw stuff out, not sell it. but a brother in my fellowship pointed out that we can sell it and give the money to the poor, so i thought it was cool. so that was one where i thought maybe i was being too extreme...still undecided about it all. we are commanded in so many places to help the poor, and Jesus even said His followers would ("when you help the poor"). but i also don't want to put it back out there, so it's an issue i'm still torn about, truly...

 2008/8/5 14:15Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

This is directed at Holly:

I can see that you are a very sincere and dedicated believer. I have to say though that I would disagree that ALL entertainment is sinful. If that were the case many of the men whom we highly esteem would have been seen as sinful. Evan Roberts was known to enjoy the theater, and many other great preachers were fans of poetry and great literature - secular and sacred. The Apostle Paul even quote the most pagan of poets in his preaching.

Certainly we have to draw a line with filth and content which is the very thing Jesus was crucifed to save us from. Certainly there is no entertainment value in such things. However, the Song of Solomon was not written with the original intent of being an allegory referring to Christ and the Church and Yahweh and Israel. It was originally written as a love song to a woman. A song or poem describing Godly love between a man and a woman. Some of it, if it were written today, may even be something I would shun. However, it is in the Bible. This speaks to me of the fact that God is not opposed to us finding joy in and or being built up by depictions of life in the context of God. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I articulated myself well enough...

I'm interested in hearing your reply...

Jeff


_________________
Jeff

 2008/8/5 14:18Profile
growingholly
Member



Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


 Re:

good call, jeff. thank you all for your patience with me. i see your point about evan roberts and the others. i don't think they went to hell over going to the theatre, i just don't want to go. they may well could look into my herat and see lots that needs to be dealt with, much to my embarrassment and hurt. i think you articulated yourself very well, thank you so much for your help! i have also used movies to help people understand, just as paul quoted poets. i do try to keep it to a minimum and often feel convicted that i shouldn't have, as God's Word speaks for itself. but sometimes i feel no conviction and feel that it really helped the person understand what i was trying to communicate analogously. we do have these things available to us, and like paul used the culture to speak to that culture, so can we in moderation. there is lots of sexual language used throughout the Bible, you are right, and if given an opportunity to distort it, it can be misused, just like everything else God gave for His glory and we distort (sex, food, love, nature, animals, etc.) i would shun song of songs also if it were misused, but in the context of its Biblical glory, it is beautiful to my very soul. ahh....
so i'll tell you what: i will concede that it is a possibility to me that not all entertainment is sinful. i am but a tiny baby in Christ!! i just love Him so much i can't bear the thought of hurting Him, and i think of things like "do not be conformed to the world", and "do not watse time for the days are evil", and i read in the gospels and epistles and haven't found a spot where they take time off and go to the colisseum or something (except the wedding where He made the wine)...i don't see instructions to recreate. but i certainly do see that i am very new to Him (just about a year after having been in cultural "Christianity" for several years, and now my little fellowship was torn apart as half got shipped to iraq)). i want the Lord to be my all, that i would not desire the things of earth, but only the things above. i want to throw off every hindrance...oh, how i cry even now as i type this message. i believe that anyone on this board feels the same way. i know my flesh is trying to burden me, i feel the worldliness still tugging at me, and i fear the Lord, i fear Him so much. i hate my sin, i hate it that i still sin sometimes, it drives me near to madness. that's my heart, please don't feel i am being mean or anything, and please know i say this of a changed heart towards a holy God. i want Him to show me, and i am so very, very grateful to you guys for your replies, i will take them to Him. my heart is singing to know you are helping to sharpen me and also whoever else may read this, hopefully all this is helping the guy who wrote the first post. praise be to God for His divine mercies, new each morning!!!

praise be to God, that He uses wretches like any of us, like paul, like evan roberts, like peter. what a mighty God we serve indeed. thank you all, let us pray mightily over this family in need.

love you guys; i sure have missed ture fellowship desperately. this is so wonderful. hugs for all.
sorry so long...

 2008/8/5 15:01Profile









 Re:

Hey Holly, to answer your question about celebrations in the OT... certainly they were a time of celebrating and honoring God. I didnt mean they were entertainment as in mindless entertainment. But even tho they were a time for celebrating, honoring and remembering God... they were also meant for the people to enjoy God, and enjoy or have joy in His presence.

For instance, in the NT Paul said that the man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man.

Krispy

 2008/8/5 16:17
growingholly
Member



Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


 Re:

yay, wow, that is just what i was thinking too. every celebration of God just being beautiful and Spirit-filled, joyous. full in Him. what a wonderful God to serve. ahhhhhhh.

thank you so much for dialoguing in this; it brings me joy to see this. i thank God. :)

 2008/8/5 18:25Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

For those in this thread claiming "Hells Bells" wasnt a good recommendation, I would remind you of the original question:

Quote:
Does anyone know of a specific person or ministry that details the bad aspects of this music as a warning to parents?



Notice, the request wasn't to educate the child, but the parent.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/8/5 23:43Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Dear brother -
I didn't mean to offend you with my comments about "Hells Bells". I personally found it very enlightening. I simply meant that it may not be the best thing for a teenager to be shown, simply because if they are already contrary to the idea, they will find what they deem cheesy and corny and ignore the rest. Certainly it is a great documentary - the original is just a little outdated.

However, you are correct. Originally it was a request for something to educate the adult in charge. My apologies if I offended you. Not my intention at all...

God bless!

Jeff


_________________
Jeff

 2008/8/6 1:30Profile





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