SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The “whosoever that believeth”

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Thank you theopenlife for the writing by Pink, and I did enjoy a lot of what I read, but still there is the part of the mystery of God’s elect.

I read the first part and some of the second part and agreed with most and very thankful for the knowledge of the word in this dear brother’s life and teaching. As I was reading the mystery became clearer to me.

The truth of scripture is wonderful concerning God’s election. I agree with all the truth in scripture He has found but the mystery concerning election that he has come to try to explain I just disagree. Let met tell you why, because I believe when God says he so loved the world and Jesus died for everyone that is clear.

Understanding also became clearer where the scripture says "As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed" (Acts 13:48). I believe the mystery is in God’s foreknowledge. We know that God elected us before the foundation of the world because with God the end is always contained in the beginning. Notice this, everyone that God saw in the future before the foundation of the world that would believe in His Son, He ordained them to eternal life. God saw into the future all those that would believe and He elected them before the foundation of the world and they were ordained to eternal life. Praise God! This means all that were ordained to eternal life believed. God seeing that we would believe makes sure that we do and enables us to by His grace through faith.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Blessings to all! -rbanks

 2008/7/31 17:39Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

rbanks, your honesty is evident an appreciated. Please graciously accept my questions.

If the decisive determination of salvation rests on the unprovoked will of man, and not on the determination of God to secure that person's salvation, then would not man receive that crowning element of glory?

Suppose two people receive the exact same gospel message, and both experience the same resistible strivings of the Spirit, and at last one repents and the other goes on to damnation. What then is the difference which compelled the first to repent? Was he wiser? Was he less addicted to sin? Was he more naturally moral? It certainly cannot have been something God did differently - according to your present view - so the defining difference which separates sheep from goats, saved from lost, would need be something in the man that elevates him above another.

I affirm that the difference is that to the one who heard and yet was damned, God was gracious enough to allow him to hear and then morally refuse the gospel. To the one who was saved, God was exceedingly and abundantly gracious, not only to let him hear the gospel, but to be morally transformed to willingly receive it.

 2008/7/31 17:58Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Hello brother rbanks

Quote:
Notice this, everyone that God saw in the future before the foundation of the world that would believe in His Son, He ordained them to eternal life.



Do you believe That God looked into the future to see if Jesus actually died on the cross and then elected it to happen?

I personally believe it is the other way around.

I do believe God is all knowing (omniscient), but I also believe He does not use this knowledge as a determining factor for deciding who is elected. It is not merited, it is not deserved; it is of the sovereign grace of God.

Just some thoughts brother

Grace and peace


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/31 18:26Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

If I may jump in...Salvation has NOTHING to do with our choice, but God's. Christ on the cross is the ONLY basis for our forgiveness. But our responsibility is to repent and believe by faith when God convicts us by his word empowered by the Holy Spirit. Our repentance and faith is not a work whereby we become "worthy" or "determine" our salvation. We could repent and believe and determine to serve him all the days of our life and it would DO nothing for us. But praise God, He sent His Son to be the propitiation and decides to save those who repent and believe on Him. It is our choice to repent and believe once the Holy Spirit brings His word, but His choice to create, give His Son, give His word, and ultimately save.

The way I like to say it is this: God has given us requirements without which we can't be saved, but fulfilling those requirements do nothing towards saving us.


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2008/7/31 18:30Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

theopenlife wrote:
rbanks, your honesty is evident an appreciated. Please graciously accept my questions.

If the decisive determination of salvation rests on the unprovoked will of man, and not on the determination of God to secure that person's salvation, then would not man receive that crowning element of glory?



Thank you brother,

Now, here is my answer.

The decisive determination of salvation does not rest on the unprovoked will of man but in God’s will toward His elect in that none shall be lost.

The determination of God to secure that person's salvation is determined by God in his providential care to secure the faith that man places in Him. True biblical faith is not works but the gift of God.

 2008/7/31 19:31Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

tjservant wrote:
Hello brother rbanks

Quote:
Notice this, everyone that God saw in the future before the foundation of the world that would believe in His Son, He ordained them to eternal life.



Do you believe That God looked into the future to see if Jesus actually died on the cross and then elected it to happen?

I personally believe it is the other way around.



Brother Tj I have enjoyed your writings on Si.

I don't really know why you would ask a question like that from what I have stated but the answer is a definite no.

The bible is plain concerning the fact that Jesus was crucified in the mind of God before the foundation of the world. God did not decree the fall and is not responsible for the fall but saw a head and decreed that his Son Jesus would become the savior of the world.

Blessings Brother! -rbanks

 2008/7/31 19:42Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Quote:

tjservant wrote:
Hello brother rbanks

Quote:
Notice this, everyone that God saw in the future before the foundation of the world that would believe in His Son, He ordained them to eternal life.




Do you believe That God looked into the future to see if Jesus actually died on the cross and then elected it to happen?

I personally believe it is the other way around.



Brother Tj I have enjoyed your writings on Si.

I don't really know why you would ask a question like that from what I have stated but the answer is a definite no.

The bible is plain concerning the fact that Jesus was crucified in the mind of God before the foundation of the world. God did not decree the fall and is not responsible for the fall but saw a head and decreed that his Son Jesus would become the savior of the world.

Blessings Brother! -rbanks





Just showing why I do not believe God looks into the future in order to make the decision as to elect someone (or not) based on what they did. The same goes with His Son. He decreed it…it happened. He did not look into the future to see if it happened and then decree it. Same with man, if He says you’re elect…you’re elected. I do not believe He looks into the future to see if someone merits election.

Grace and Peace my brother


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/31 20:00Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

I do not believe He looks into the future to see if someone merits election.



I do not believe He looks into the future to see if someone merits election either. No one merits election.

Election is according to God's grace.

 2008/7/31 20:13Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

"There is a remnant according to the election of grace"

[b]There is a remnant[/b], that is, a minority which has been and will forever be preserved. Paul compares this to the 7000 reserved in Elijah's time. It is a definite number of reserved people.

It is a remnant [b]according to an election[/b], that is, a choice, a selection. A 'remnant' cannot include all; not all mankind is included in this remnant and all are not elect - chosen.

Who does the choosing? The Giver of grace, for it is an 'election according to grace'. And what is the basis His choice to include one in this remnant, and to exclude another?

The remnant is chosen [b]according to grace[/b]. Grace is the voluntary internal determination of God to do good, without regard for any actions or omissions of the one to whom He does it. Grace is given to whom He chooses, when He chooses, as He chooses.

Some say that God gives His grace equally to all who hear the gospel, but this would ruin the meaning of a 'remnant according to the election of grace', for the common grace which all the world receives does not guarantee their preservation or salvation, which is the implication of the passage. A remnant is preserved.

Again, this cannot be an election, a choice, of all and everyone of those who hear the gospel or feel the strivings of the Spirit. If that were so, then the remnant would include all people who hear and feel the gospel call. Gospel calls may be ignored. The general strivings of the Spirit can be resisted. This grace, spoken of here, is a superior grace. It is a victorious, drawing grace, which makes distinction of its recipients purely upon the unexplained determination choice of Sovereign God.

The remnant, the minority of souls set apart to receive salvation, were selected not because of anything they would do - for they would have done nothing good apart from this special grace - but because God selected them graciously to receive a transformation that came by the Spirit as they heard the word of God. The immediate result was that they placed their faith in Christ.

This remnant was chosen from eternity, for eternity, according to grace and not works. Faith is a work, it is a thing we do. God does not have faith for us, but produces it in us through regeneration. Salvation is by grace, through faith, and what God foreknew was His electing, sovereign love for His people, chosen in Christ according to His merits.

Anyone who wants salvation may come to Christ. When they have come, they discover, sooner or later, that it was God who made them "willing in the day of His power."

Psalm 110:3 "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power."

 2008/7/31 20:47Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Quote:

I do not believe He looks into the future to see if someone merits election.



I do not believe He looks into the future to see if someone merits election either. No one merits election.

Election is according to God's grace.



Hello again rbanks

I would like to clarify as to why I have posted what I have so far on this thread.

This quote of yours:
Quote:
Notice this, everyone that God saw in the future before the foundation of the world that would believe in His Son, He ordained them to eternal life.



Seems to imply that God looked into the future and decided who to elect based on whether they believed or not.

I am only saying this is how it appeared to me.

This article may shed some light into how I see it.

It can be found [url=http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/foreknowledge.htm]here[/url]

Grace and peace brother


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/31 21:15Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy