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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What must one do to remain saved?

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 TJservant

I testify this from the heart:

Jesus will never let you go.

God forbid, you may walk away from Him, or you may forget your "first love", or you may become downright backslidden, but in your soul's ear, you will not be able to drown out that small still Voice of Christ.

Faith is a journey, and sometimes, a hard one at that.

 2008/7/25 10:55
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: What must one do to remain saved?

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Now for a little background as to why I brought up the questions.

I attended a holiness church until I stopped going at the age of fifteen or so. Folks were saved one month, lost the next and saved again the month after that. I also recall a couple of people receiving their “second blessing” more than once. I never understood what had taken place until fifteen years later when I began to study the doctrine of holiness after I was saved.

People saved then lost...lost then saved; others professing sinless perfection while divorcing and destroying marriages. “Mistakes will happen”, they would say. People were “backsliding” often; I now wonder how many ever slide forward to begin with.

I sometimes hear folks talk about their salvation and they use the word “I” a lot more than they use the word “Him”. This scares me. It sometimes seems like the folks that see themselves as having played a part in their salvation, also see themselves as playing a part in keeping it. Where as the folks that claim no part in their salvation see themselves as having no part in keeping it. This is definitely not always the case but I certainly do encounter it.

At the Church I spoke of earlier you were told to make a decision to accept Jesus and it appeared that it was your decision to remain saved as well. It was all about you and very little about Him. Ones salvation seemed totally dependant upon themselves.

Today, I hear people say things that sound as if they believe they are just as responsible for staying saved as Jesus is for keeping them saved. This is why I posted the questions to begin with; to hear what other people have to say about the issue of “staying saved”.


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/25 22:24Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re: What must one do to remain saved?

Quote:
What must one do to remain saved?

Colossians 2:6 "As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him"

that scripture has kept things very simple for me. How did i receive Him? when He opened my eyes and showed me my great sin and who i really am.. a great sinner. then i believed.

how do i walk in Him? by His grace. i need to remind myself that it is all by His grace and His Spirit that i can do anything good and pleasing for Him and to Him.

i believe scripture is very clear on 2 things
1) God's sovereignty
2) man's responsibility

to put the emphasis on one over the other is to lose the beautiful balance that the scriptures seem to scream about from cover to cover.

hope it helps some brother,
phil

 2008/7/26 11:40Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Saved by grace, through faith

Quote:

tjservant wrote:

I sometimes hear folks talk about their salvation and they use the word “I” a lot more than they use the word “Him”. This scares me. It sometimes seems like the folks that see themselves as having played a part in their salvation, also see themselves as playing a part in keeping it. Where as the folks that claim no part in their salvation see themselves as having no part in keeping it. This is definitely not always the case but I certainly do encounter it.



The key seems to be knowing God's part, and our part, and then allowing God to do His part, while not neglecting our part. It would seem that our part is one of depending on Him, period. The matter would be one of [b]avoiding[/b] taking up our right to strive to be holy, to be the judge of our own conduct, and executor of our own punishment, for these are the task of God alone.

To live like this would be to risk total failure, if God were not in control. We exhibit this by [b]acknowledging our sins[/b] as being ours, by [b]prayer[/b] and by [b]receiving forgiveness[/b]. Although these seem like we are [b]doing[/b] something, in the final analysis, the opposite is actually the case.

We "confess (acknowledge) our sins" knowing that "[b]He[/b] is faithful and just to forgive...and cleans...". The focus is His response, to our admission of failure. We "ask, seek and knock", as an expression of our comprehension of [b]His[/b] activity. Fact is, He often "answers our prayer", even when we haven't prayed, so it obviously isn't the actual "prayer" that moves God.

The last is a little more tricky to grasp, because it touches on a little Psychology (bear with me a moment:-)). Last night I met a men, who was a professing believer, and yet was drunk. He was feeling incredible shame over this, because he had intended to witness to his friend that night. He was by no means a "rolling drunk", but had simply had two drinks too many, due to not paying attention. His sin, if any, was one of "cautiouslessness" or an absence of "self-control".

By His grace, the Lord provided him with three Christians, who were wandering the city, look for "the one" that He would have them witness to...that being us. I noticed that this man seemed to have a barrage of explanations about his activity, with each statement beginning with, "I don't know why I do this, but..." After a little while, I said to his, "You know why you do it. You do it because you want to, and that's the problem."

He then went on to say, "You might be looking at me now, drunk, and think so and so about me...", to which I responded, "No. That's between you and God. All I see, is someone who is conscious of his sin, and yet is hiding behind excuses, rather than trusting God to cleanse him." He then began to say a lot of "How can I continue in sin, when Christ died for me.." kind of stuff, to which I responded, "Christ died for the sin you committed tonight, to for someone who hadn't sinned. The problem is, having confessed your sin, you are denying His forgiveness by all your self-abasement. He has cast your sin as far as from the "east is from the west", who are you to see it any differently. That is your sin."

After all, what is the difference between being forgiven of a sin committed five minutes ago, and the sin committed five years ago? Nothing whatsoever. Either we are forgiven or we are not. It does not come in increments.

To endure the shame of needing to be forgiven, produces the kind of brokeness that God requires in us to deliver us from sin. Our self-exertion counteracts this process. Our Saviour, when faced by jeers to come down from the cross, having been "made sin" to be there, endured it, until the death. Likewise we are to "take up our cross", and to "abide in the vine" before we can produce fruit. A branch does nothing but remain stationary to abide. Consider this in light of the exhortations in Scripture, like "Be still and know that I am God".

Fear produced out of the shame of holding onto a sense of guilt, which has been removed by the blood of Jesus, is the ultimate enemy of faith, because it is betrays of a belief that God is not as faithful as 1 John 1:9 clearly states. This may not seem serious, but Scripture defines sin as that which is not faith.

This is not to be mistaken with the kind "pop psychology" that aims to convince the sinner that they have done no wrong, but trusting that God has done His part, in response to us doing our part, living out our Christian walk spontaneously, out of a clear conscience. Ultimately, abiding in Christ is the only way that one can be assured of "remaining saved". To paraphrase Norman Grubb, Christianity is not about about consecration and maintenance, it's about [b]being[/b] consecrated and [b]being[/b] maintained.


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Aaron Ireland

 2008/7/26 12:18Profile
logan_trky
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Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

There is one thing God requires: Faith. If you believe, you are saved. However, if you cease to believe, you cease to be saved.

 2008/7/28 20:51Profile
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

My own understanding

To be saved in the first place (ie converted), we needed to have faith and repent.


Once converted, as long as we do not lose faith (example believe that we have sinned so greatly after being save, that God would not forgive us) and/or reject the faith (ie reject God), we are still save. However, if we do not repent before dying (while still having the faith), then we will lose our salvation at death.

That will then explain why people can backslide badly for years and still come back to him
--(those that believe that salvation cannot be lost will say this person was not saved in the beginning)
--(while those that believe salvation can be lost, will point to this person as proof)

And that's why getting saved, can be so 'simple' ie have faith and repent

Also, that's why there's no works involved in ensuring salvation continue because as long as we have faith and repent, the Holy Spirit in us will continue molding us to be more Christlike. When we still have faith but do not repent, the Holy Spirit is still in us asking us to repent but we are too stubborn to listen to Him and thus backslide and produce no fruit at this stage
(and that's why God gets all the glory because the Holy Spirit is doing all the work in molding us.)


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geraldine

 2008/7/30 1:03Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:
logan_trky wrote:

There is one thing God requires: Faith. If you believe, you are saved. However, if you cease to believe, you cease to be saved.



The question must be asked, "What is faith?" or "What is it to believe?" For many faith is such an ethereal thing, that we say we have but cannot define, in a practical sense. Scripture seems to exaggerate this mystical quality, by avoiding and outright definition, choosing rather to use comparisons and adjectives.

The question asked is a very real question, and we have done well to avoid any "Calvinist/Arminian" disputes, however the issue of "Perseverance of the Saints" has been all but ignored. It's almost as if we have resigned ourselves to a mentality that says, "God can protect us from everything but ourselves."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Calvinist, per se, but to resort to an answer that either fails to adequately define terms, and/or amplifies our potency and diminishes God's, is to distill Salvation down to a mere patch up, rather that the power of God exhibited through the Cross.

Perhaps this question need not be asked, if a sound conversion has taken place, the transforms us into a New Creation, that is as different, as night from day, from the Old. Perhaps this question would have answered itself, had we truly received the witness of the Spirit.


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Aaron Ireland

 2008/7/30 5:47Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Perhaps this question need not be asked, if a sound conversion has taken place, the transforms us into a New Creation, that is as different, as night from day, from the Old. Perhaps this question would have answered itself, had we truly received the witness of the Spirit.



Having said all that, it is far from uncommon to forget these things and need reminding, now and then... :-)


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Aaron Ireland

 2008/7/30 5:53Profile
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

'Faith' in my case (yes I know I'm not the one being quoted here) is that Jesus died for our sins so that we can go to Heaven.

In a way, 'faith' in this case can be viewed as legalistic. Just like Mr A knows (have faith) that if he can get on the boat, he will be able to sail from America to UK. However, he may not want to pay for the ticket despite Jesus giving enough $ for the ticket--after all Mr A may be greedy and wants to use the $ for other things. That's why 'repentance' is required before we can be save. 'Repentance' then in the case of Mr A is wanting, knowing and willingly paying for the ticket because he genuinely wants to ie his heart is in the right place.


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geraldine

 2008/7/30 6:55Profile





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