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Discussion Forum : SermonIndex Announcements : SEMINAR: Robert Wurtz II on The Conviction We Need

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 SEMINAR: Robert Wurtz II on The Conviction We Need



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The Conviction We Need
Speaker: Robert Wurtz II
Date: Thursday, July 8th
Time: 9:00 pm EST (1 hour)
Description: If we are ever to see revival in our lands we must pray for an outpouring of Holy Ghost conviction. We need conviction of sin the likes of which has not been felt in decades. Charles G. Finney recounts such conviction. He writes, “After a few moments, I requested the congregation to sit still, while I should go down and speak with the man. I found him to be this Mr. E, of whom I have been speaking. The Spirit of the Lord had so powerfully convicted him, that he was unable to sit on his seat. He was weeping aloud like a child confessing his sins, and accusing himself in a terrible manner. I said a few words to him, to which he seemed to pay but little attention.“



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 2004/7/5 19:59Profile
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 Re: SEMINAR: Robert Wurtz II on The Conviction We Need

After last week's seminar on Charles Finney I am very much looking forward this one on more of the revival accounts and experiences of Charles Finney. Make sure to [b]register[/b] above for this Live Seminar taking place at 9:00pm EST tonight. NOTE: you must register beforehand and the access to the live meeting will be emailed to you after you register.


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 2004/7/8 14:09Profile
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Here are the seminar notes that you can print out or reference to during the Live Seminar:

---

[b]THE CONVICTION WE NEED![/b]
[i]Compiled with Commentary
Robert Wurtz II[/i]

The Necessity of Holy Ghost Conviction

In order for any person to be genuinely CONVERTED they must first be genuinely CONVICTED of their sin by the Spirit of God. I personally believe that the lack of genuine conversions in our day can be traced directly back to a lack of genuine conviction of sin. The lack of conviction is the result of Christians having the mistaken notion that they can win people to Christ by their own methods and programs. Few still believe that it takes the moving of the Spirit of God to genuinely save a person from their sin. Most take it for granted that just as soon as they open their mouth to speak about salvation or the bible that the Holy Spirit is just going to automatically show up.

Ministers, ministering in their own power is one of the many great tragedies of our day. They lean upon their own abilities and knowledge and training- and less on the Spirit of God. This is evident in the absence of genuine conversions to Christ. For those who have experienced genuine Holy Ghost conviction, they have not merely heard a sermon about God- but are brought into a real encounter with Him. The reality of God comes home in the midst of great Holy Ghost conviction.

Apart from this conviction, the unbeliever may deceive themselves into believing that they are a good person and don’t really need God. Apart from the moving of the Holy Spirit faith in Christ will not seem real, and the sermon will seem like a bunch of talk.

When God Convicts- You MUST Repent!

Many have the mistaken notion that they will repent when THEY get ready. This is dangerous thinking because the Spirit of God will not always strive with man. Moreover, God will send people who continue to sin with a high hand a spirit of slumber. Thomas Shepherd writing in 1645 pens these words. “When the wills and affections of men drink at fountains of forbidden pleasure, God will cause them to experience spiritual drunkenness. When they insist on imbibing the things their hearts should be weaned from, things, which should be bitter to them, God will give them up to this. In this sense the Prophet calls the Kings, Priests and People, "The drunkards of Ephraim" (Isaiah 28:1; Jeremiah 25:15-18). The Lord puts His cup of just judgments into the hands of those he intends to destroy and bids them take their pleasure in sins. They lose all fear of death and judgment even when both are at their very doors.”

John 6:44 reveals plainly that no one can come to the Father unless they are drawn of Him. The Spirit of God is striving with all of man to some degree. The intensity of this striving is greatly increased upon an individual when men and women travail in prayer for their soul. On the other hand, as stiff-necked sinners refuse God He will give them over to their sins. Isaiah 29:9 gives us a glimpse into this process. Here we read, “They are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger but not with strong drink. For the Lord has poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes." Thomas Shepherd comments again on this saying, “Sometimes it means spiritual judgments because of sin and therefore refers not so much to misery in general as to spiritual misery, when the Lord gives men up to a reprobate spirit… Jeremiah speaks of the calamity of the people in their being dashed one against another. Drunkenness prepares them for this misery.” Every time you resist the Holy Ghost when He convicts of sin you are that much more difficult to reach because of the combination of your own hardness and God’s response to your highhandedness.

Conviction- A Confrontation With God!

Conviction is God personally confronting you over you sin. Conviction in part is the illumination and revelation of a person’s guilt before God. It is an added sense of the dreadfulness of your sin beyond that which is naturally produced in the conscience. The Holy Spirit came into this world to CONVINCE man of sin. Robert Murray M’Cheyne writes, “The most powerful sermon in the world can make nothing more than a natural impression; but when God works through it, the feeblest word makes a supernatural impression. Many a poor sermon has been the means by which God hath converted a soul. Children of God, 0 that you would pray night and day for the lifting up of the arm of God!” And when God ‘raises His arm’ to confront men and women in their sin- they cannot help but be bowed low.

The word of God will bare fruit on its own even if a minister were to get up and preach without seeking the Lord; but that fruit is nowhere near to the level that God’s word can produce under the God given unction of the Holy Spirit. M’Cheyne continues, “Oh, brethren! Conviction of sin is no slight natural work upon the heart. There is a great difference between knowing that vinegar is sour, and actually tasting and feeling that it is sour. There is a great difference between knowing that fire will burn us, and actually feeling the pain of being burned. Just in the same way, there is all the difference in the world between knowing the dreadfulness of your sins and feeling the dreadfulness of your sins. It is all in vain that you read your Bibles and hear us preach, unless the Spirit use the words to give sense and feeling to your dead hearts. The plainest words will not awaken you as long as you are in a natural condition. If we could prove to you, with the plainness of arithmetic, that the wrath of God is abiding on you and your children, still you would sit unmoved—you would go away and forget it before you reached your own door. Ah, brethren! He that made your heart can alone impress your heart. It is the Spirit that convinceth of sin.”



This is why it is imperative that we yield to the Spirit of God when He is dealing with us. Genesis 6:3 tells us clearly that the Spirit of God will not always ‘strive’ with man. Charles Finney comments on this in his message titled, ‘The Spirit Ceasing To Strive.’ Here he writes, “It should always be understood that whenever the Spirit can really be said to "strive" with an individual, that individual must be resisting. But what is intended by his striving? This striving, then, I would observe, is not a physical striving, but a moral influence, persuading, reasoning and convincing.” Moreover, Finney describes the great danger for those who continually resist. He continues, “One word more. When the Spirit strives men are in great danger of putting off submission day after day till at length the Spirit leaves them. They try to think about religion, but do not come to the point. Ah! They do not know the infinite danger they are in of being left amidst all this palavering (idle chattering). Ah! "While thy servant was busy here and there, behold the Spirit was gone." They must wait till they have done this thing or that thing, and thus they go on; day after day the Spirit strives with them till at length he takes his flight. You should reflect that every moment you are resisting, you are in infinite danger of his leaving you. "My Spirit shall not always strive." (Genesis 6:3)

Holy Ghost conviction is not a pleasant thing. It is the very revelation of your filth and iniquity in the eyes of God. Real Holy Ghost conviction moves beyond the emotions and attacks the will. It may weigh upon a person with such heaviness and agony that observing it carries a similar effect to watching a child take a spanking. In an age of humanism this is near unacceptable. When the weight of God’s dealing settles down upon the people- many cannot handle it and will seek to uplift the atmosphere of the place where the sermon is going forth or the ‘spirits’ of the person being convicted. The humanistic way is to lift up a person who God has laid low under their sins. God has used great conviction to humble them and instead of God lifting them up ministers try to lift them up with various methods of turning their minds from the weight of their sin. It is as though they are trying to distract the person from the moving of the Holy Ghost. The great revivalists never did such a thing. They allowed God to do His work thoroughly. The revivalists took an approach like unto the method described by Ray Comfort, they preached law to show the people their crimes before God and when the people were humbled under the weight of their sin they offered them the Gospel.

Pray and Preach

Charles G. Finney understood that without the Spirit of God he could do nothing. He was helpless within himself to bring men and women to repentance and faith. But what he could do was pray and preach. He could pray until he prevailed with God and conviction of sin came. He could patiently prepare and preach. Just like the lawyer he studied to be, he would spend days or weeks annointedly bringing a case against the people as if they were both the defendant and the jury. When it was over with the convicting power of the Holy Spirit had compelled them to concur with the guilty verdict that God has passed down to them already.

Charles Finney utterly relied upon God when he went to the pulpit. He relied upon God to give him both the right words to speak and the unction with which to deliver them. The results were astonishing. It was not uncommon for the Spirit of God to come upon a person with such great power that they would fall from their seats or cry out in agony in the services. At times the people had to be stilled or the preaching could not continue for the crying.

Lessons From the Past

In the fall of 1827 the Second Great Awakening was well underway. Finney had been dealing with great resistance to the revival at New Lebanon while preaching there when a woman by the name of Miss S almost begged Finney to come to her town of Stephenson. Finally he was able to go and the enemy was greatly moved to try and stop this revival. Finney recounts, “Accordingly the next Sunday, after preaching the second time, one of the young converts at New Lebanon offered to take me up to Stephentown in his carriage. When he came in his buggy to take me, I asked him, "Have you a steady horse?" Oh yes!" he replied, "perfectly so;" and smiling, asked, "What made you ask the question?" "Because," I replied, "if the Lord wants me to go to Stephentown, the devil will prevent it if he can; and if you have not a steady horse, he will try to make him kill me." He smiled, and we rode on; and, strange to tell, before we got there, that horse ran away twice, and came near killing us. His owner expressed the greatest astonishment, and said he had never known such a thing before.”

No doubt the devil knew that God was about to pour out his Spirit on this church that was near in shambles. The former pastor (Mr. B) of the church had backslidden and become an infidel. But there were a couple of women that were travailing in prayer for a move of God in the face of insurmountable opposition. God answered their prayer!

Finney recounts some of the events of the services as God began to move, “The spirit of prayer in the meantime had come powerfully upon me, as had been the case for some time with Miss S. The praying power so manifestly spreading and increasing, the work soon took on a very powerful type; so much so that the Word of the Lord would cut the strongest men down, and render them entirely helpless. I could name many cases of this kind. One of the first that I recollect was on Sunday, when I was preaching on the text, "God is love." There was a man by the name of J, a man of strong nerves, and of considerable prominence as a farmer, in the town. He sat almost immediately before me, near the pulpit. The first that I observed was that he fell, and writhed in agony for a few moments; but afterwards became still, and nearly motionless, but entirely helpless. He remained in this state until the meeting was out, when he was taken home. He was very soon converted, and became an effective worker, in bringing his friends to Christ.” (End of quote)

One man was sitting in his seat unable to move the conviction was so great. Finney finally had to get up and go to him. There was another man on the other side of the pulpit during the same message that was so overpowered by the conviction that he was unable to leave. These were just some of the examples of what was happening.

Charles Finney had afterward made an appointment to preach in their schoolhouse. He writes, “On that street, and when I arrived the house was very much crowded. I took for my text: "The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked." The Lord gave me a very clear view of the subject, and I was enabled to bring out the truth effectively. I told them that I understood that there was not a praying family in that whole district. The fact is; the town was in an awful state. The influence of Mr. B, their former minister, now an infidel, had borne its legitimate fruit; and there was but very little conviction of the truth and reality of religion left, among the impenitent in that town. This meeting that I have spoken of, resulted in the conviction of nearly all that were present, I believe, at the meeting.”

As time went on the revival spread in that neighborhood; and that in one family, there were seventeen hopeful conversions. Finney recalls, “But there were several families in the town who were quite prominent in influence, who did not attend the meetings. It seemed that they were so much under the influence of Mr. B, that they were determined not to attend. However, in the midst of the revival, this Mr. B died a horrible death; and this put an end to his opposition.” Before it was all over God had opened a door to have nearly all those who would not attend the meetings to come and many of them hade been hopefully saved.

The Revival at Wilmington

In conclusion of this lesson I would like to point out a situation that Charles Finney faced that is similar to what we see in our churches today. It happens that he had to deal with a group of theology students and others that were of the persuasion that people must wait on God to act sovereignly if there were to ever be a revival. This was not a view of God’s sovereignty that we would likely hold to today, but one in which lent to fatalism and passiveness. It is similar to our day in this regard- that bad theology and beliefs can greatly hinder a revival. The traditions of men also hinder a move of God and pride or stubbornness is a great reason for it all. Ideas long held and methods long held can at times hinder the moving of God and snuff out a revival.

Charles Finney writes, “As soon as I could see my way clear to leave Stephentown, therefore, I went to Wilmington, and engaged in labors with Mr. Gilbert. I soon found that his teaching had placed the church in a position that rendered it impossible to promote a revival among them, till their views could be corrected. They seemed to be afraid to make any effort, lest they should take the work out of the hands of God. They had the oldest of the old-school views of doctrine; and consequently their theory was that God would convert sinners in His own time; and that therefore to urge them to immediate repentance, and in short to attempt to promote a revival, was to attempt to make men Christians by human agency, and human strength, and thus to dishonor God by taking the work out of His hands. I observed also, that in their prayers there was no urgency for an immediate outpouring of the Spirit, and that this was all in accordance with the views in which they had been educated.”

Conviction on the Pastor!

Bad theology can aid in the enemies ability to snuff out all desire to see a move of God among men. We are told in scripture to pray and to take the Gospel to the world, but many are just “waiting on God.” What it often amounts to is an excuse for laziness and a justification based on some pretense of piety. What is worse is when people hold views that they refuse to admit are wrong- when they know they are wrong. This would be a situation Finney would soon meet head on.

Finney continues, “It was plain that nothing could be done, unless Mr. Gilbert's view could be changed upon this subject. I therefore spent hours each day in conversing with him on his peculiar views. We talked the subject all over in a brotherly manner; and after laboring with him in this way for two or three weeks, I saw that his mind was prepared to have my own views brought before his people. The next Sabbath, I took for my text: "Make to yourselves a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die?" I went thoroughly into the subject of the sinner's responsibility; and showed what a new heart is not, and what it is. I preached about two hours; and did not sit down till I had gone as thoroughly over the whole subject, as very rapid speaking would enable me to do, in that length of time. The congregation became intensely interested, and great numbers rose and stood on their feet, in every part of the house. The house was completely filled, and there were strange looks in the assembly. Some looked distressed and offended, others intensely interested. Not infrequently, when I brought out strongly the contrast between my own views, and the views in which they had been instructed, some laughed, some wept, some were manifestly angry; but I do not recollect that anyone left the house. It was a strange excitement. In the meantime, Mr. Gilbert moved himself from one end of the sofa to the other, in the pulpit behind me. I could hear him breathe and sigh, and could not help observing that he was himself in the greatest anxiety. However, I knew I had him, in his convictions, fast; but whether he would make up his mind to withstand what would be said by his people, I did not know. But I was preaching to please the Lord, and not man. I thought that it might be the last time I should ever preach there; but purposed, at all events, to tell them the truth, and the whole truth, on that subject, whatever the result might be.”

So what happened with the pastor? What happened with the church? The church was very much in agreement with the message of Finney, but he was not out of the woods yet. I must here remark, that it would be a sad thing that God would have to raise up a whole generation of young preachers to replace those who refuse to minister the true Gospel for whatever reason. We see it in our day that humanism and secularism has so influenced preaching- that I’m afraid most have lost sight of what true preaching really is.

Finney later went to the house of the Pastor, Mr. Gilbert. He recounts, “When I arrived at Mr. Gilbert's, his wife accosted me as soon as I entered, by saying, "Mr. Finney, how dared you preach any such thing in our pulpit?" I replied, "Mrs. Gilbert, I did not dare to preach anything else; it is the truth of God." She replied, "Well, it is true that God was in justice bound to make an atonement for mankind. I have always felt it, though I never dared say it. I believed that if the doctrine preached by Mr. Gilbert was true, God was under obligation, as a matter of justice, to make an atonement, and to save me from those circumstances in which it was impossible for me to help myself, and from a condemnation which I did not deserve."

‘New School’ To Them- ‘Old School’ To Us

Just at this moment Mr. Gilbert entered. "There," said I, "Brother Gilbert, you see the results of your preaching, here in your own family;" and then repeated to him what his wife had just said. He replied, "I have sometimes thought that my wife was one of the most pious women that I ever knew; and at other times I have thought that she had no religion at all." "Why!" I exclaimed, "she has always thought that God owed her, as a matter of justice, the salvation provided in Christ; how can she be a Christian?" This was all said, by each of us, with the greatest solemnity and earnestness. Upon my making the last remark, she got up and left the room. The house was very solemn; and for two days, I believe, I did not see her. She then came out clear, not only in the truth, but in the state of her own mind; having passed through a complete revolution of views and experience. From this point the work went forward. The truth was worked out admirably by the Holy Spirit. Mr. Gilbert's views became greatly changed; and also his style of preaching, and manner of presenting the Gospel. So far as I know, until the day of his death, his views remained corrected, ‘new school’ as opposed to the ‘old school’ views which he had before maintained.

Remarks:

In closing I would like to simply ask; are you willing to return to the old path of preaching with Holy Ghost conviction? Are you willing to fast and pray until the Spirit of God descends upon the congregation with great power and conviction? Are you willing to see God confront the unrepentant personally for their sins? Can you bare the weight of a solemn service for hours or days?

What level of conviction is needed in our day of declension? How much prayer and fasting will it take to raise to the hand of God’s Holy Ghost conviction to meet ‘handily’- with the highhandedness of our times?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/8 15:51Profile
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36964
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Here is the audio piece from the Live Seminar what a blessing this seminar was!:

[b][url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4250]The Conviction We Need by Robert Wurtz II[/url][/b] - [i]If we are ever to see revival in our lands we must pray for an outpouring of Holy Ghost conviction. We need conviction of sin the likes of which has not been felt in decades. Charles G. Finney recounts such conviction. He writes, “After a few moments, I requested the congregation to sit still, while I should go down and speak with the man. I found him to be this Mr. E, of whom I have been speaking. The Spirit of the Lord had so powerfully convicted him, that he was unable to sit on his seat. He was weeping aloud like a child confessing his sins, and accusing himself in a terrible manner. I said a few words to him, to which he seemed to pay but little attention.“[/i]


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/8 22:18Profile
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36964
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Meet ASAP
Date: Thu Jul 8 20:43:11 GMT-0400 2004
Click Here for Meeting Details

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++matt grace has entered the meeting.
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matt grace says:
hey

Greg Gordon says:
hi brother matt :)

Greg Gordon says:
how are things

matt grace says:
could be better

Greg Gordon says:
hmm

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
++Robert Wurtz II has entered the meeting.
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Greg Gordon says:
well maybe after the meeting it will be

Greg Gordon says:
:)

matt grace says:
i pray for it

matt grace says:
hows your day goin

Greg Gordon says:
actually great.. one of the better days in the last few months :)

Robert Wurtz II says:
Praise God!

matt grace says:
very nice

Robert Wurtz II says:
Welcome Matt!

Greg Gordon says:
spoke to a dear brother in the states that knows Zac poonen

matt grace says:
welcome brother howr u doin

Robert Wurtz II says:
great!

matt grace says:
dont know him

Greg Gordon says:
hes a speaker on the site

Greg Gordon says:
in the downloads area

Greg Gordon says:
I recoomend you listen to his sermons hes a pastor in india.. a Man of God

matt grace says:
hmm

matt grace says:
i'll get a couple

Greg Gordon says:
poor in spirit video :)(

Robert Wurtz II says:
Bro. Shall we test the mic?

Greg Gordon says:
its awesome

Greg Gordon says:
sure

Greg Gordon says:
yes

matt grace says:
yepers

matt grace says:
good

Greg Gordon says:
quote a bible verse

Greg Gordon says:
yes they do

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Greg Gordon says:
volume is great verse is better

matt grace says:
:)

Greg Gordon says:
no sounds perfect

Greg Gordon says:
basement

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Greg Gordon says:
sure great idea!

Greg Gordon says:
hey im praying for a tornado

Greg Gordon says:
:0

Robert Wurtz II says:
lol

matt grace says:
goodness

matt grace says:
Pensacola

matt grace says:
where you located?

Greg Gordon says:
whats your username matt?

matt grace says:
maxgracimo

Greg Gordon says:
im in toronto, canada

matt grace says:
not too far away

Robert Wurtz II says:
Independence, MO

matt grace says:
no my name is madmatg

matt grace says:
my screenname

Greg Gordon says:
ahh ic :) just read your post

matt grace says:
thats mine unfortunately

Greg Gordon says:
how old are you

matt grace says:
just about 20

Greg Gordon says:
I am 25

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++Ed Pugh has entered the meeting.
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Robert Wurtz II says:
I am 34

matt grace says:
experience!

Greg Gordon says:
I would highly advise you to take a break from girls and pursue God totally

Robert Wurtz II says:
amen!

Greg Gordon says:
I really regret even getting involved in the last few years

Robert Wurtz II says:
Hi Ed!

matt grace says:
hmm

Greg Gordon says:
you have alot of age afterwards for girls trust me

Ed Pugh says:
Hi Brother Robert

Greg Gordon says:
I am quite emotional also and tend to get attached quick

matt grace says:
i gotcha

matt grace says:
yeah thats me

Greg Gordon says:
thats a bad triat I know how it feels

Greg Gordon says:
Purusing God first which means truly that will put things in balance

Robert Wurtz II says:
amen

matt grace says:
ahh

Greg Gordon says:
God wants our totally emotions used on Him.

Greg Gordon says:
being passionate for Jesus .. sounds weird but it works

matt grace says:
gotcha

matt grace says:
i just gotta cut off these darn feelinds

Ed Pugh says:
No, don't cut them off just redirec them. It's wise advise from Greg imho.

Greg Gordon says:
yes even to hold a girls hand and hug etc can be addictive and you get a sense of completion from it and a bonding

matt grace says:
the way we first came otgether was talking about the bible and we've been growing kidna together (time wise) in our knowledge

Greg Gordon says:
you have to be careful

matt grace says:
an im not so sure thas a good thing

Greg Gordon says:
if you pray God will totally prepare a girl for you.. I really dont think dating is good. just being friends is better

Ed Pugh says:
How old are you Matt?

matt grace says:
al;most 20

Greg Gordon says:
yes ed has some grey hairs.. ahem wisdom with him

Greg Gordon says:
:P

matt grace says:
lol

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++All2and4Him has entered the meeting.
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Robert Wurtz II says:
I am thankful for the young people that have such a heart for God!

Ed Pugh says:
lol blonde/gray whose looking..

matt grace says:
ive been praying a lot and i figur that if its meant to be God will make sure it happens

Greg Gordon says:
or did you use the grechin formula like I suggested

Greg Gordon says:
:P

All2and4Him says:
hey am I on time?

Ed Pugh says:
No, I am what I am. Popeye..

matt grace says:
haha

Greg Gordon says:
yes brother :) AFORETIME

Ed Pugh says:
Welcome All2...

Greg Gordon says:
hhee

Robert Wurtz II says:
Hi all2and4him1

Ed Pugh says:
You're on time.

All2and4Him says:
hey

Robert Wurtz II says:
your not late

matt grace says:
heyloo

All2and4Him says:
first time thats happened : )

Robert Wurtz II says:
:)

Greg Gordon says:
ha its a mirical

Ed Pugh says:
I tease my wife about "Korean time." Everything is always a bit late and I'm a bit a/r.

matt grace says:
haha

Greg Gordon says:
hehe

Ed Pugh says:
How is everyone?

Robert Wurtz II says:
I;m great!

Greg Gordon says:
you should put on some elevator music while we wait robert :P

Robert Wurtz II says:
theres the bell

matt grace says:
could be much worse

matt grace says:
i hear the clock!

Robert Wurtz II says:
yes

Ed Pugh says:
Star Wars?

Robert Wurtz II says:
lol

Robert Wurtz II says:
shall we pray?

Ed Pugh says:
sure

matt grace says:
surely

All2and4Him says:
every time is a good time.

Robert Wurtz II says:
bro Greg?

Greg Gordon says:
sure

Greg Gordon says:
notes are here: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2453&forum=12

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Greg Gordon says:
welcome brandy and mike

Greg Gordon says:
we just begun

Greg Gordon says:
the notes are here: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2453&forum=12

Greg Gordon says:
(3rd post down)

All2and4Him says:
amen

Mike Balog says:
here, setting up the BBQ...

Mike Balog says:
Amen

Greg Gordon says:
yes!

All2and4Him says:
amen amen amen

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All2and4Him says:
hey Jesse!

Greg Gordon says:
5 mins in brother Jesse :)

Greg Gordon says:
notes are here: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2453&forum=12

Ed Pugh says:
Hey Jesse

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Jesse Morrell says:
hmm. because i came in twice there is an echo

Jesse Morrell says:
the voice didn't turn off the first time

Greg Gordon says:
hmm

Greg Gordon says:
try again

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Greg Gordon says:
2 echoes might balance it

Greg Gordon says:
restart the computer quick will fix it

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Mike Balog says:
YES!

Greg Gordon says:
:)

Mike Balog says:
no doubt

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Greg Gordon says:
is it working now brother?

Jesse Morrell says:
man i'm missing it!

Jesse Morrell says:
i had to reboot so now it is perfect

Greg Gordon says:
notes are here: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2453&forum=12

Jesse Morrell says:
thanks

Greg Gordon says:
one paragraph before the heading "Pray and Preach"

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Greg Gordon says:
yes the Holy Spirit is a gentle dove and grieved easily

Greg Gordon says:
it lands its feet only on the clean not the unclean (or dead)

Greg Gordon says:
a joke :(

Greg Gordon says:
yes Amen

All2and4Him says:
amen

Ed Pugh says:
Amen.

Greg Gordon says:
hallelujah

Jesse Morrell says:
there ya go

Greg Gordon says:
they would leave them there

Greg Gordon says:
hehe

Greg Gordon says:
:0

Jesse Morrell says:
i was going to say I've never seen that also

Greg Gordon says:
yes

Greg Gordon says:
whoa!

Greg Gordon says:
!!

Ed Pugh says:
He smiled, and we rode on. Amen!

Jesse Morrell says:
h still has nightmares!

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Jesse Morrell says:
h=he

Greg Gordon says:
welcome brother david

David Ford says:
Thanks! Good to be here!

Greg Gordon says:
:)

Greg Gordon says:
horrible death!! wow

All2and4Him says:
wow

Greg Gordon says:
like acts

All2and4Him says:
yea

Greg Gordon says:
festus?

Greg Gordon says:
or who was it

All2and4Him says:
Herod

Ed Pugh says:
like Mordecai Ham as well..

Greg Gordon says:
yes

All2and4Him says:
amen amen amen

Greg Gordon says:
yes yes yes

Greg Gordon says:
robert without notes yikes

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Mike Balog says:
hehe

Ed Pugh says:
lol

All2and4Him says:
God gives clarity of mind

All2and4Him says:
*agrees*

Ed Pugh says:
They love their sin and want to stay in it... P. Reidhead.

Greg Gordon says:
yes

Greg Gordon says:
*urgency

Greg Gordon says:
YES

All2and4Him says:
remember what they told Carey?

Greg Gordon says:
no

Greg Gordon says:
:P

Ed Pugh says:
no

Jesse Morrell says:
God will save people without you

Jesse Morrell says:
along those lines

All2and4Him says:
they said sit down boy "if God wanted to save the people of india, he will do it without you

Greg Gordon says:
(secret) patculair views = calvanism

Greg Gordon says:
lol

All2and4Him says:
father of modern missions... little did they know

Greg Gordon says:
yes thats a great testimony

All2and4Him says:
that would be so cool to see

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Ed Pugh says:
Indifference. Impossible when the real Gospel is presented.

Jesse Morrell says:
AMEN!

Greg Gordon says:
!

All2and4Him says:
amen

Mike Balog says:
Praise God!!!

matt grace says:
amen

Jesse Morrell says:
wow

Ed Pugh says:
Amen.

All2and4Him says:
our

Jesse Morrell says:
haha yes!

Mike Balog says:
bingo!

Greg Gordon says:
"any such thing" - the true gospel

Jesse Morrell says:
great point

All2and4Him says:
amen amen amen

Mike Balog says:
what gratitude!

Mike Balog says:
!!!

All2and4Him says:
yuck

Mike Balog says:
amazing...

All2and4Him says:
truth...

Mike Balog says:
Old Paths, old school,

Jesse Morrell says:
those preachers have been extinct by genicide

Mike Balog says:
so old now that it sounds 'new'

David Ford says:
Where is the God of the Whiefield's and Finney's? Where are the Whitefield's and Finney's of God?

Greg Gordon says:
amen

Ed Pugh says:
I used to go to "Holiness" churches when I was young. That's the last time I regularly heard those sermons.

All2and4Him says:
amen

Jesse Morrell says:
amen

Greg Gordon says:
whew amen!

Ed Pugh says:
amen

matt grace says:
amen thank you brother

Mike Balog says:
Praise God Brother!!!

Greg Gordon says:
yes send CONVICTION!!

Brady Weldon says:
amen

Greg Gordon says:
praise God!! :)

Brady Weldon says:
thanks Robert

Mike Balog says:
And you brother!

David Ford says:
Thank you and God bless as wel!

Ed Pugh says:
Thanks brother!

Greg Gordon says:
amen.. it came through brother!!

Ed Pugh says:
The notes were great. Very helpful...

Greg Gordon says:
amazing :)

Mike Balog says:
Praise God./...

Jesse Morrell says:
God is so good!

Jesse Morrell says:
my goodness

Greg Gordon says:
yes they are getting better and better robert

Jesse Morrell says:
what is His name? so i can pray?

Jesse Morrell says:
great

Greg Gordon says:
soon we will be in the heavenlies when you are teaching these :P

All2and4Him says:
Hey jesse I listened to that cd, and my brother came and listened to it too and it gave him a good jolt of conviction about his complacency in the faith

All2and4Him says:
although the last half was hard to understand... it got muffled

Mike Balog says:
brb

Greg Gordon says:
yes thats great brother robert :)

Jesse Morrell says:
Brother if you could take care of the details of geting permission etc, i'd be all over it

Greg Gordon says:
mabybe I need to take a trip down there

Jesse Morrell says:
i have some questions robert about this message

Robert Wurtz II says:
Sure!

Jesse Morrell says:
were there any similiar characteristics in the sermons that really brought conviction

Jesse Morrell says:
were they all completely different? or where there similiarities?

Robert Wurtz II says:
God Cannot please Sinners!

Jesse Morrell says:
sounds heavy

Ed Pugh says:
http://www.gospeltruth.net/1836SOIS/07sois_god_cant_plz_sinnrs.htm (God Cannot Please Sinners)...

Jesse Morrell says:
what is the greatest lesson you have learned by studying Finney?

Greg Gordon says:
great point

matt grace says:
haha

Jesse Morrell says:
haha it is!

Greg Gordon says:
yes it was the first message I heard from brother robert

David Ford says:
Robert, you have someone on line here whom God has and is using mightily. There's always deep conviction of the Holy Spirit and 100's saved all the time. His name is Brady Weldon. He was the tool God used in the Mayfield, KY revival back in '95. It ran for weeks and weeks and folks were coming from all over the nation. (Bradyweldon.com) God's hand is mightily upon the preaching of God's Word. Many youth saved. His preaching reminds me of the a Whitefield or Finney.

Greg Gordon says:
scared me at first

Greg Gordon says:
:P

Mike Balog says:
I started to and....

Mike Balog says:
it's weird

Mike Balog says:
but that wasn't even 'live'

Greg Gordon says:
ha

Mike Balog says:
still want to hear it though, 'Rat poison'

Mike Balog says:
Do we have it?

Greg Gordon says:
nope.. hmm will have to ressurect it

Greg Gordon says:
no brother.

David Ford says:
I don't believe so but you can go to bradyweldon.com and hear a flash of his preaching

All2and4Him says:
it looks like he is here...

Greg Gordon says:
havent heard of that man.. checking it know

All2and4Him says:
although silent.

Robert Wurtz II says:
robertwurtz2000@yahoo.com

David Ford says:
okay!

Ed Pugh says:
Hi Brady, Your website is good although I'll have to turn it off during the meeting.

Ed Pugh says:
music..

Greg Gordon says:
whos brady im confused

Greg Gordon says:
:P

Jesse Morrell says:
what would u say is the greatest lesson you have learned by studying Finney?

Robert Wurtz II says:
they are in this meeting

Robert Wurtz II says:
the name is on the list

Greg Gordon says:
gimmie gimmie

Greg Gordon says:
opss my fault sorry brother brady

matt grace says:
did you see jesses question?

Greg Gordon says:
:)

Mike Balog says:
it gets confusing...

Mike Balog says:
:)

Mike Balog says:
that whole 28 days thing...

Jesse Morrell says:
28

Greg Gordon says:
yes evangelism corrected - by finney :P

Mike Balog says:
I was close

Mike Balog says:
:)

Mike Balog says:
imagine that now...

Ed Pugh says:
it's about results now and oftentimes it's about pride I'm sad to say...

David Ford says:
Robert, what do you know about Praying Nash who prayed for Finney?

Mike Balog says:
yes...

Jesse Morrell says:
if Finney saw the ministry today, what would he think and say? from what you know

Greg Gordon says:
thats a krazy question! :P

Greg Gordon says:
hehe

Greg Gordon says:
:0

All2and4Him says:
i think he would be too shocked to say anything : )

Mike Balog says:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2428&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go

Mike Balog says:
Dave that is a link for Daniel Nash

Greg Gordon says:
yea no tornadoes

Greg Gordon says:
;)

Robert Wurtz II says:
amen

matt grace says:
aright ima have to leave, got some things i need to attend to tonight

David Ford says:
As well, maybe he would just stand there and weep for an hour before speaking.

All2and4Him says:
is the weather bad over ther?

Robert Wurtz II says:
God Bless matt!

matt grace says:
ya'll have a good night

Robert Wurtz II says:
Thanks for coming!

Ed Pugh says:
God bless you Matt.

matt grace says:
and thank you brother robert for that awesome message

Robert Wurtz II says:
God Bless!

Jesse Morrell says:
good night

Greg Gordon says:
amen yes thank you matt

Mike Balog says:
Take care Matt

matt grace says:
you too

Greg Gordon says:
what a great meeting :) what a blessing it is

All2and4Him says:
Later Matt God bless

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David Ford says:
Robert, I'd love to have prayer with you some time by phone. 800.705.9626

Mike Balog says:
Dave don't know if you caught that link, greg printed out the whole book on Daniel Nash there

Jesse Morrell says:
so if we compared finney to modern preachers, and finneys messages to these new messages, what would be the greatest differences?

Greg Gordon says:
I need a 800 number :P

Jesse Morrell says:
hope you don't mind the questions

David Ford says:
Thank you! Yes! I grabbed it. Where do I get the book re Nash?

All2and4Him says:
I need everyone else to have an 800 number

Mike Balog says:
One sec

Jesse Morrell says:
i actually have one, but its a secret

All2and4Him says:
no long distance.

David Ford says:
Guys, feel free to use that 800 and we'll have prayer.

Greg Gordon says:
Is very long on subjects

Greg Gordon says:
drives the point home

Mike Balog says:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2428&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go Dave it's within the same link

David Ford says:
Oh! Thanks! :-)

Mike Balog says:
My pleasure!

Jesse Morrell says:
no carnal christianity

Ed Pugh says:
no mental assent only believers..

Mike Balog says:
Greg, did you catch that we had someone drop in from Ethiopia today?

All2and4Him says:
its in 1 john

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All2and4Him says:
I think that 1 john slices up who are in and out

Greg Gordon says:
yes that was awesome mike!

Greg Gordon says:
I loved the connection with rees howells!

Mike Balog says:
Blew me away...

Greg Gordon says:
the revival in eithopia!

Mike Balog says:
That too!!!

Mike Balog says:
It's off that same Nash link...

Mike Balog says:
for everyone else

David Ford says:
I was talking to Bill McCloud (The Canadian Revival of 1971 broke out in his church in Sask. and swept across Canada) and he said what's missing from much prayer is the expectation of Revival in North America.

Ed Pugh says:
They didn't fully surrender? Is that what you mean?

Greg Gordon says:
wow

All2and4Him says:
I think that backsliding is leaving the faith.

Greg Gordon says:
you know bill mcleod?

Greg Gordon says:
im from tornto ,canada :)

David Ford says:
Yes! ...you're a Canadian!!! Cool!

Greg Gordon says:
!!

All2and4Him says:
amen amen amen

Jesse Morrell says:
David, Finney talks about the same thing in his revival lectures. alot on praying in faith with expectation

All2and4Him says:
very disturbing

Greg Gordon says:
im trying to network with people seeking genuine revival in canada.

David Ford says:
Amen!

Ed Pugh says:
Sure, Jesus must be Lord.

All2and4Him says:
of the heart

Greg Gordon says:
I need to connect with the Canadian revival fellowship forsure somehow

Ed Pugh says:
Breaking up the fallow ground?

Mike Balog says:
The listing of sins

Greg Gordon says:
Finneys' lectures read by brothe robert - http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1617&forum=40&3

Ed Pugh says:
I used Ketih Green's version of that.

David Ford says:
You will notice in modern "versions" of Finney's Lectures modern "revisionists" left out the point about "slavery" being a hindrance to revival. They re-numbered the points and left that point out.

Greg Gordon says:
wow

Ed Pugh says:
Keith

All2and4Him says:
semantics and christians...grrr

Mike Balog says:
interesting

Greg Gordon says:
brother david how well do you know bill mcleod?

All2and4Him says:
he was cool.. asleep in the light rocks

Robert Wurtz II says:
Finney has an entire sermon on slavery

Ed Pugh says:
Do you think pastors try to please their flock too much or is it the flock is afraid of conviction? Perhaps both?

David Ford says:
Robert, any thoughts on Ray Comfort's book, "Revival's Golden Key?"

Jesse Morrell says:
where is finneys grave? anyone know?

David Ford says:
Oberlin.

Greg Gordon says:
Leonard Ravenhill wrote a good revival for that book

Greg Gordon says:
good review*

Mike Balog says:
thanks Greg....for clearing that up

Mike Balog says:
:)

Greg Gordon says:
it was orginally called "God has a wonderful plan for your life"

Jesse Morrell says:
revivals golden key, although it is not a book on prayer, is a great book that I have read through twice

Greg Gordon says:
thats the one that ravenhill wrote a review for

Greg Gordon says:
they changed it after and added to it

Jesse Morrell says:
he is it was a "shattering publication"

Greg Gordon says:
I think the orginal book is the best

Greg Gordon says:
its more to the point

Jesse Morrell says:
he said*

David Ford says:
Note: there's a difference between anointed "hard" preaching and carnal "harsh" preaching.

Greg Gordon says:
yep

Mike Balog says:
Think i have the old version...online one...hard to read

Jesse Morrell says:
they are publishing new ones again!!!

Greg Gordon says:
I had a copy but gave it away

Greg Gordon says:
read it twice :)

All2and4Him says:
why on earth do people not continue to spread revival... It drives me up the wall.

Mike Balog says:
I bet Robert...

Mike Balog says:
That's why you guys need Nash's behind you

Jesse Morrell says:
i believe in preaching heavy truths with soft hearts

All2and4Him says:
we have so many revivals, in the last 200 years, yet they just havent lasted.

Robert Wurtz II says:
yes!

Ed Pugh says:
Sobering thought Robert. Right message, wrong spirit... NOt good.

Mike Balog says:
Do you preach every Sunday Robert?

Robert Wurtz II says:
Great quote!

David Ford says:
Brokenness and absolute surrender is key!

All2and4Him says:
yea

Mike Balog says:
O.K. that just made it easier...to pray for you...everyday

Jesse Morrell says:
stay under the fountain

Mike Balog says:
Yes, will pray about that

Mike Balog says:
your a drummer?

Mike Balog says:
-ex- here

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Ed Pugh says:
Need time alone with the Lord... My pastor preaches at least 8 times a week. It's too much...

Jesse Morrell says:
haha

Jesse Morrell says:
your funny

Robert Wurtz II says:
8 times!

Robert Wurtz II says:
thats tremendous!

All2and4Him says:
that sounds great.

Jesse Morrell says:
in churches 8 times?

Ed Pugh says:
Yeah, plus her health is poor.

David Ford says:
In Phoenix we have a weekly rally called "Friday Night" and it has the purpose: "We come to seek God's face for revival through prayer, praise and the power of God's Word." Every Friday night the Spirit of God falls on the place and instantly agonizing prayer prevails throughout the audience crying out to God for Revival. Absolutely Amazing!

Mike Balog says:
Wow dave...where are you exactely?

Greg Gordon says:
brother brady? I am reading on your website :)

Robert Wurtz II says:
Thats awesome!!

Ed Pugh says:
Yes, we have church 5:30 a.m. each day M-F (7:00 a.m. Sat) Wednesday Night Friday night & Sunday, That makes 9

All2and4Him says:
I cant get to it : (

David Ford says:
I live on the north side of Phoenix.

Brady Weldon says:
thanks Greg

Greg Gordon says:
I would like to suggest some books :P

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Greg Gordon says:
sorry I am a book fiend

Brady Weldon says:
great!

Robert Wurtz II says:
9 sermons! :)

All2and4Him says:
Brady, what is the full url for your site?

Greg Gordon says:
http://www.bradyweldon.com/index.html

Ed Pugh says:
Yeah, don't see how she does it...

Brady Weldon says:
www.bradyweldon.com

Greg Gordon says:
what denomination affliation are you brother brady?

Ed Pugh says:
books??

Brady Weldon says:
sbc but we do non-denom city crusades

David Ford says:
Brady's more baptecostal! Truly anointed!

Greg Gordon says:
great. lol

Ed Pugh says:
You're from KY? That's where I originally from.

Brady Weldon says:
Tenn. near the KY border

Mike Balog says:
Thats good! Baptecostal....

Robert Wurtz II says:
Where are you at again Bro. Ed?

Ed Pugh says:
Near Washington D.C. 15 miles south...

Robert Wurtz II says:
ic

Robert Wurtz II says:
I am in Independence Mo a suburb of Kansas City

Greg Gordon says:
do you have any affliations with prayer advances brother brady?

Ed Pugh says:
I sometimes work in KC although it's been a couple of years since I was there.

Robert Wurtz II says:
Great!

Robert Wurtz II says:
if your ever heading this way send me an email

All2and4Him says:
well brothers, I am heading out. It was great hanging out with you, and I loved to hear you preach such an awesome message brother Robert

Ed Pugh says:
Sure will. Good night All2.

Robert Wurtz II says:
God Bless!

Brady Weldon says:
a few...we need much more

Robert Wurtz II says:
take care!

Mike Balog says:
Take care All2

Greg Gordon says:
do you know Keith Daniel?

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Brady Weldon says:
yes, greg

David Ford says:
I listened to him just recently

Greg Gordon says:
:)

Mike Balog says:
Ahhhh

David Ford says:
Does anybody know Stephen Olford?

Ed Pugh says:
Cool. Stephen Olford? No sorry David.

Greg Gordon says:
I am praying about getting partnered with charity ministires, prayer advances and all of that sort of seeking after revival

Greg Gordon says:
I have a pretty good contact to Zac Poonen now and am going to do a live webcast of him in america :)

Robert Wurtz II says:
Well beloved, I had better be heading home!

Robert Wurtz II says:
God Bless and I have greatly enjoyed the fellowship. :)

David Ford says:
Robert, please give me a call some time. Blessings brother! Thank you!!!!!

Mike Balog says:
Thanks for everything Robert, will be praying for you!

Robert Wurtz II says:
I will send your number to my e-mail to remind myself

Brady Weldon says:
wow greg

Ed Pugh says:
Sounds great. He is so straightforward. God bless you Brother Robert and thanks for the message.

Robert Wurtz II says:
Thanks again!

Robert Wurtz II says:
no problem!

Robert Wurtz II says:
bye

Greg Gordon says:
yes its awesome God is putting infornt of me true men of God to promote and let their messages go out to this generation

Greg Gordon says:
God Bless brother Robert

Jesse Morrell says:
thanks!

Mike Balog says:
whoa, whoa...back up...what's this with Zac, Greg?

Greg Gordon says:
Keith Daniel has really hit me hard.

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Greg Gordon says:
a brother from a charity gospel church is going to work with me to live webcast him

Mike Balog says:
!!!!!!!!!!!!

David Ford says:
Hey Greg! We need to hook up. Please get in touch with me! David 800.705.9626 phoenixford@juno.com

Greg Gordon says:
in the Kent fellowship (the only church Poonen planted in the USA)

Mike Balog says:
Oh the wonders !

Greg Gordon says:
sure david.. I am going to spend some time on your site

Ed Pugh says:
I need to spend some time with my wife before I crash for the evening. God bless you all and Brother Brady we would love to hear some of your messages. I saved your website as a favorite and I'll take a gander. Wow, excellent Greg. God is good.

Mike Balog says:
Praise God Greg...

Greg Gordon says:
yes Mike it was such an encouragemtn

Jesse Morrell says:
good night Ed

Mike Balog says:
Missed him when he was down here recently

Jesse Morrell says:
i think i'm heading off as well

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Brady Weldon says:
thanks gentle brothers......goodnight

Greg Gordon says:
he might even meet me to fellowship... hes in michigan 3 hours away from me.

Mike Balog says:
Se ya brother Ed!

David Ford says:
Hey!!! It's only 7:44pm in Phoenix! LOL!!!

Greg Gordon says:
great to have you Jesse :)

Greg Gordon says:
lol

Mike Balog says:
Same here Dave

Jesse Morrell says:
its 11 here in connecticut

Mike Balog says:
Santa Clara, Ca

Jesse Morrell says:
u guys be blessed! I'm going to bless myself with a pillow

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+++Brady Weldon has left the meeting.
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Jesse Morrell says:
i have an apointment with Mr Matris

Mike Balog says:
Take care Jesse!

Jesse Morrell says:
good night

Mike Balog says:
Thats so you can get up at 4:00 am right? LOL

David Ford says:
Gotta go! P.U.S.H. Pray Until Something Happens! Blessings!

Mike Balog says:
Take care Dave!

Greg Gordon says:
amen

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+++Jesse Morrell has left the meeting.
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+++David Ford has left the meeting.
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Mike Balog says:
Whew...what a meeting!

Greg Gordon says:
amazing news about Poonen eh!

Greg Gordon says:
ready for the brick?

Mike Balog says:
Yes!!!

Greg Gordon says:
the brother has 100's of his messages

Mike Balog says:
OK

Greg Gordon says:
and they are uploading as we speak

Mike Balog says:
HAHAHAHAHA

Mike Balog says:
incredible!

Greg Gordon says:
also knows the fellowship in india very well! and is going to get DVD's

Greg Gordon says:
ie alot more videos on the site :)

Mike Balog says:
!!!!

Greg Gordon says:
and he has alot of keith daniel

Mike Balog says:
I did get a quick email from him awhile back

Greg Gordon says:
spoke to him on the phone what a brother ... great fellowship

Greg Gordon says:
from who?

Mike Balog says:
Zac

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Meeting Owner: Greg Gordon
Current Attendees: All2and4Him, Mike Balog, Jesse Morrell, Robert Wurtz II, Brady Weldon, Ed Pugh, David Ford, matt grace
Entered Meeting At: 2004-7-8 8:43:11 PM
File Saved at: 2004-7-8 10:46:56 PM


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/8 22:19Profile





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