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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

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Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

Can man believe at any moment? There is lots of confusion over the issue of faith so I thought it would be a good discussion. Romans tells us “faith comes by the hearing of the word”. So for a faith to come there must be a hearing of what the Spirit says through the word of God. So if faith comes, is it outside of anything within man to believe?

Or is man capable of “willing” himself to believe on God at any moment? Has God put within man the ability to believe him? Can I choose to believe God’s promises at absolutely any time I want?

What are your thoughts on faith? Is faith an intellectual believing? Is it a complete surrender – spirit, soul, body – unto the Lord? Is it agreeing with something God said?

What are your thoughts?

 2008/7/18 15:57Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

Quote:
Mattie wrote:
Can man believe at any moment? There is lots of confusion over the issue of faith so I thought it would be a good discussion. Romans tells us “faith comes by the hearing of the word”. So for a faith to come there must be a hearing of what the Spirit says through the word of God. So if faith comes, is it outside of anything within man to believe?


What are your thoughts?

If it is up to God to give mankind faith, then God is directly responcible for the faithlessness of the non-belivers, because HE hasn't given them faith.

Since all mankind are commanded to have faith, then God has already given that which is needed to have faith, man is condemnd for not doing what he is able to to(disobedience), not for what he can not to.

Quote:
Or is man capable of “willing” himself to believe on God at any moment? Has God put within man the ability to believe him? Can I choose to believe God’s promises at absolutely any time I want?

All mankind is able to "will" to believe the Gosple only when he hears it, because no one can believe what he hasn't heard.

Quote:
What are your thoughts on faith? Is faith an intellectual believing? Is it a complete surrender – spirit, soul, body – unto the Lord? Is it agreeing with something God said?

[b]Hebrews 11:1[/b] [color=990000]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/color] In other words faith is [b]substantial evidence[/b](Actions that prove faith) of our Hope, a right response to God. Faith is acknowleging the truth given and and acting upon it.
That "Hope" is not a wish but a knowledge in which we await.


All manking has faith in something, however, he is commanded to put that faith in/on the Son of God in all HE said and did.

 2008/7/18 16:55Profile
mackaymarsh
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Joined: 2007/5/21
Posts: 132


 Re: Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

As I understand, Faith is both a 'fruit' and a 'gift' of the Holy Spirit.

1Corinthians 12:4 & 9 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit... To another faith by the same Spirit..."
and
Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

The Same Greek word is used (G4102 pistis) as both a 'gift of the Spirit' and also a 'fruit of the Spirit' but either way, it comes from the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

Interesting thread...

Wayne


 2008/7/18 17:33Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Mattie,


God has given all mankind faith. I have faith in what I know to be true. The sun will rise, night comes every 24 hours. My recliner will hold me when I sit in it. This is not the saving faith that we must receive for salvation. That must be the faith of Jesus Christ, the Seed promised, that we might have salvation in no other. Unless we are born again we cannot see the things of the kingdom of God. How do we see the things of the kingdom? Being born again by the Faith of the Son of God.

So my worldly faith cannot give me faith to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That faith must come from Spirit of Faith Himself, The Seed, Jesus Christ. When the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, that is the beginning of faith to faith, which is the faith of the Son of God that we might believe that He is the Son of God and be saved.

Galatians 3:19-28 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, (((((that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.))))) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, (((((shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.))))) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

It is the faith Jesus Christ that gives us faith to believe that He is the Son of God and be saved.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How do we live, now that we are crucified with Christ, and who is it that is living in us?

It is the Life of Jesus Christ that we live and by the Faith of the Son of God in that new creature, fulfilling the Word of God. None before the Seed came had this new creature life in them which Paul call a mystery.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This is the mystery that fulfills the Word of God, as God said in Eph 1, it was His plan for Christ to be in all His son's that are destined to live in His house.

The other side will say that all faith is the same. I must disagree by the preponderance of evidence of the Word of God. Yes, Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

"I will show you my faith by the works", that are wrought in me by the life and faith of the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:6-9 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith of the Son of God.
persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance,
belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

For He has been made all things unto us.

This is a lot of scripture, but it is the foolishness of the Faith of the Son of God which saves us, depleting the faith of man, which only leads to destruction.

1 Corinthians 1:17-31 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/7/18 18:06Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

Quote:
Romans tells us “faith comes by the hearing of the word”. So for a faith to come there must be a hearing of what the Spirit says through the word of God. So if faith comes, is it outside of anything within man to believe?



God's part of faith is to reveal His will, our part of faith is to respond rightly to what is revealed. 'Right response' to the revealed will of God is our part of faith.

[color=000066]And Mary said unto the angel, [u]How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?[/u] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God. And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren. [u]For no word from God shall be void of power.[/u] (Luke 1:34-37)ASV [/color]

God watches over His word to make sure it accomplishes its purposes. If God 'said'- we [i]can[/i] and we [i]must[/i]. This erases any doubt as to whether we can 'do' what God commands when He has spoken to us.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/7/18 18:30Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Can We Have Faith Anytime? Or Must Faith Itself Come from God?

Quote:
Or is man capable of “willing” himself to believe on God at any moment? Has God put within man the ability to believe him? Can I choose to believe God’s promises at absolutely any time I want?



Man can believe when God reveals His will. Faith is not a force that can be wielded by us, it is a response to God's revealed will. If God does not 'reveal' what would we believe in?

The third question depends on the circumstances. I am not fully convinced that we can pick up the word of God and arbitrarily apply [i]all[/i] of the 'promises' found in the bible to myself or others. Folk have made a life of mining the scriptures for new 'promises' to claim.

But I believe that if we pray and seek God He will reveal to us His will and 'quicken' His word to us in the circumstances according to His will. I think a lot of confusion and disillusionment comes into the life of a believer because they are 'believing' some promise that God has not quickened to their case.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/7/18 18:40Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
What are your thoughts on faith? Is faith an intellectual believing? Is it a complete surrender – spirit, soul, body – unto the Lord? Is it agreeing with something God said?



It is important to point out that devils believe and tremble. The difference is that they do not respond rightly and [i]willingly[/i] to God's will. God can force a demon to depart from a person, but their obedience is not faith. This is very important, I think.

There is a sense of total dependence, surrender and trust in the exercise of faith. Nothing in my hands I bring simply to thy cross I cling, type thing.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/7/18 18:49Profile





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