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BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
2 Time 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, HE WILL ALSO DENY US:



I agree. What true Christian would live in perpetual denial of the Lord? It shows they are not true believers.



2 Time 2:12 If WE suffer, WE shall also reign with him: if WE deny him, he will also deny US:

Apostle Paul included himself "we"

1 Cor 9:7But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, [b]I myself should be a castaway[/b](REPROBATE)

 2008/7/18 15:54Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:
Hmmhmm, John Gill did not twist Scripture... Check out Romans 11

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

These unbelieving Jews are described as branches, and they were not true believers. Therefore, it is possible to call unfruitful hypocrites who claim to be part of the churches "branches".



And then he goes on to tell even the graffted in ones that they can be CUT OFF:

Rom 1117 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [b]take heed lest he also spare not thee[/b]. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, [b]if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also SHALT BE CUT OFF.[/b] 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

 2008/7/18 15:59Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Yes. Gentiles can be hypocrites too. Gentiles should not assume that because His salvation is available to them, they are automatically guranteed heaven if they show no fruit of salvation.

What does John 6:39 mean?


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 16:04Profile
JoanM
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Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re: Many are called, few choose?

My goodness, as I wrote this out so did many others write and post. Good Bible verses to examine. A choice: thoughts hidden in a thread.

BlazedbyGod wrote: [i][u]What do you all think about this article[/i][/u]:

There is some wonderful truth in that article. And it is always good to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. I would think that this subject has been much discussed in these forums, but I am pretty new here. As always, with the words of man, there are difficulties. You will no doubt find difficulties (wrong speaking) in what I am writing as I did in what your author wrote. It has always helped me most to [b]first get clear about who God is[/b]. After that, who man is, is a piece of cake. When it comes to sovereignty in salvation, I’m going to go for God’s. Isaiah did not choose the death of the King that ruled over him. I did not choose my death 2000 years ago, the death of what Paul calls the old man. When I heard that Divine Truth, it was over. Remember repentance.

Your author wrote: [i][u]To them salvation was not connected with obedience, or advancing in spiritual growth[/i][/u]. There is a relationship but I have not yet seen in the Bible that man chooses to obey and is [u]consequently saved[/u]. What I do find in the Bible, and in life, is that after salvation there is some ability to choose, where as before there was not. The ability to choose I am referring to is the choose “life” and “good” as God shows us in the Bible, choose “follow” and the “trust and obey”. This ability does seem to grow, most noticeably as the Truth of the Word of God is revealed to me. It really seems to me that the faith I received was not my faith, but the faith of Christ.

[u]Regeneration by decision-making?[/u] I just can’t find that in the Bible. There is a lot of choosing in the OT (see Strong) and a lot of difficulty in ability. Even Paul, after God saved Him, expressed problems in ability at certain points and the way through those problems. His testimony omits the necessity to choose in order to be saved. As nearly as I can tell, revelation of Divine Truth, itself, settles the issue. If making a decision and obeying (the Truth that was heard) were part of what is needful in presenting the gospel, in order to be saved, wouldn’t Jesus have told Nicodemus?

Salvation is as much a miracle as feeding 5000. It is the work of God not man. John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Many things follow from all these things. As one who has meetings you know these things. Where does the power to endure come from?

Still in all, preaching this way could encourage people to examine themselves and to examine the whole Word of God. I would not be surprised if there are as many people clinging to a false security in salvation by the works of man as cling to an idea that Grace is for lawlessness rather than growth in Christ. Being taught by God to obey seems to [u]follow[/u] salvation and there is a great need there in these days.

 2008/7/18 16:21Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:


These Gentiles were " ....in his goodness.."-that is not a hypocrite. And they told to "remain/abide" in his goodness, or they WOULD be cut off also. He says to the FAITHFUL ones.

The word "abide" means to REMAIN

 2008/7/18 16:22Profile
DelightedInU
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Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 102
Escondido, CA

 Re:

Once saved always saved is an excuse that many Christians have deceived themselves with so that they may live as they please, without fear of judgment. It is a lie from Satan. Satan wants you to think that you cannot be lost simply because you said some prayer once. Do you think God would let His only Son die horrifically so that His creation could say a prayer and then turn around and do the things which He hates? Jesus dies so that we in turn have power to die to ourselves and follow Him. Freewill works both ways. He won't let you go but you can choose to walk away from Him. I've witnessed many a Christian walk away from God and you cannot tell me that they were not saved to begin with. They were and they willingly gave into serve their own lusts, rather than serve their Savior.


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Jennifer

 2008/7/18 16:55Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
2 Time 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, HE WILL ALSO DENY US:



I agree. What true Christian would live in perpetual denial of the Lord? It shows they are not true believers.



What false Christian could perpetually suffer with him? The fact is, Paul speaks of the same Christian that suffers with Christ, will reign with him, but he also speaks of that SAME christian that he denys Christ, Christ will deny him.

 2008/7/18 17:16Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
I've witnessed many a Christian walk away from God and you cannot tell me that they were not saved to begin with



What do you think about 1 John 2:19 (KJV)

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Not coming against you or any doctrine. Just looking for truth.


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TJ

 2008/7/18 17:37Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, [b]but they were not of us[/b]; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not [b]ALL[/b] of us."

The answer is in verse18:
v18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that [b]antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists[/b]; whereby we know that it is the last time. [b]THEY[/b] went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

These are "antichrists" or false christs, that were purposefully bringing in heresises. And Paul tells us in 1 Cor 11:19 that "heresies" from false christs must be AMONG us, so that they that are approved (of God) are manifested unto us.

That is the reason " ..they went out from us"-because when the genuine is manifested, so is the false.....

These were men who were never saved-"....but they were not of us.." -he means even while they were among us, they were not of us.



 2008/7/18 18:02Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
These were men who were never saved-"....but they were not of us.." -he means even while they were among us, they were not of us.



Thats my point. Many OSAS folks say that people do not fall away. They say they were never saved to begin with. Doesn't this verse support that?


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TJ

 2008/7/18 18:08Profile





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