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TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Luke 12:41-53



This passage does not speak of a genuine believe losing their salvation. Compare what Jesus is saying with the Pharisees of the time. They were supposed to be the servants of the house. They were supposed to know the Law. But, they began to beat the servants and act wickedly. Even though they were expecting to be the highest in the Kingdom of God, they will shockingly find themselves cast away with unbelievers. Why? Because they were never true believers. Jesus tells His disciples to take heed of this.

[b]Again, can anyone give a good answer as to why Jeremiah 32:40 shouldn't be taken for what it says... that God's new covenant people "will not turn from Him."...?[/b]

Jeremiah 32:40 puts the nail in the coffin of this wicked heresy.


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:30Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

John 15:[color=FF0000] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch [b]IN ME[/b] that beareth not fruit he taketh away:[/color]

 2008/7/18 15:34Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
Luke 12:41-53



This passage does not speak of a genuine believe losing their salvation. Compare what Jesus is saying with the Pharisees of the time. They were supposed to be the servants of the house. They were supposed to know the Law. But, they began to beat the servants and act wickedly. Even though they were expecting to be the highest in the Kingdom of God, they will shockingly find themselves cast away with unbelievers. Why? Because they were never true believers. Jesus tells His disciples to take heed of this.

[b]Again, can anyone give a good answer as to why Jeremiah 32:40 shouldn't be taken for what it says... that God's new covenant people "will not turn from Him."...?[/b]

Jeremiah 32:40 puts the nail in the coffin of this wicked heresy.



Jeremiah 32:40 speaks of the jewish people as a whole, as a people-God was basically saying of his chosen people; that never as a whole will they depart from himeven from when the transference from the Old Covenant unto the New Covenant-he will always have the jewish remnant-also, Jeremiah 32:40 does in fact speak of people who remain/abide in the mediator of the everlasting covenant, because God's law is in their heart and they do abide by it in Christ. So, of course in that context Jeremiah 32:40 is 100% TRUTH.

But, it is possible for people to "..not endure until the end" or to "...deny him..."

2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: [b]if we deny him, HE ALSO WILL DENY US[/b]:...

 2008/7/18 15:39Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace: and such branches the husbandman taketh away. (John Gill)


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:40Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

If each and ever member of the Everlasting Covenant the Lord inspires to fear Him as Jeremiah 32:40 indicates, then it makes sense logically that no member of the Everlasting Covenant will ever depart from Lord. Jeremiah 32:40 does not only speak of a corporate preservation, but an individual preservation, you can't have the latter without the former.


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:44Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

I benefited much from John Gill, but he as many calvinist twist certain parts of the bible to fit their doctrine. The word says what it says.

How can you be in Christ and not be in him?

we have to stop this twisting the word to fit doctrines. Make the text mean something else then what it says.

We can try explain away great parts of the bible and come up with satisfying answers to make us at ease. Or we can believe the word just as it is writen.


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/7/18 15:45Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Also, what does John 6:39 mean? "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me [b]I should lose nothing[/b], but should raise it up again at the last day."

Everyone which has been given to Christ before the foundation of the world will never be lost, but raised on the last day.


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:48Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

2 Time 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: [b]if we deny him, HE WILL ALSO DENY US:[/b]

Matt 10:33 But [b]whosoever[/b] shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

WHOSOEVER: whether believer, or an unbeliever-"WHOSOEVER(anyone)

 2008/7/18 15:49Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
2 Time 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, HE WILL ALSO DENY US:



I agree. What true Christian would live in perpetual denial of the Lord? It shows they are not true believers.


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:51Profile
TaylorOtwell
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Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Hmmhmm, John Gill did not twist Scripture... Check out Romans 11

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

These unbelieving Jews are described as branches, and they were not true believers. Therefore, it is possible to call unfruitful hypocrites who claim to be part of the churches "branches".


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Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/18 15:53Profile





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